give me your clothes, your boots...

almighty_gir

and all your base



very early wip, but i'm hoping to put a T-101 into UT3 =] any crits, especially paintovers to show me what to change, would be awsome.

Keg

needs less forehead

Neox

needs perspective and a total makeover, doesn't look like arnold at all

almighty_gir

little more helpful than "doesn't look like him"? or am i expecting too much of an accomplished artist?

keg, i'll get right on it.

Neox

well i don't know where to start, beside his hair is nothing even close

look at this image

http://collateraldamage.warnerbros.com/multimedia/assets/wallpaper_1280.jpg

and now just compare it with what you've got right now.

the nostrils need more volume, the ears are too big and too close to the head, in front view they look almost elvish.
The mouth needs to be wider, the overall shape doesn't fit too. The chin has to be wider.
I mean what shall i write, he doesn't look like him at all, take any photograph of arnold and use a perspective that seams similar in zbrush, take a screenshot and use photoshop to compare.
and don't start with details like the sunglasses or wrinklestructures, just work on the proportion and overall volumes to match him more to your reference.
It's just way too early to really critizise, no offense.

animeboyz

Use some more photo references I'd say

Here's a good photo:
http://www.allposters.com/View_HighZoomR...p;imgheight=867

I thought it was Duke Nukem at first :-\ But mabye it's because I've seen so many requests for him lately.

Slainean

I'm working on an actor likeness as well, and every so often I take a screenshot and overlay it with a reference in photoshop. Be sure to use some guidelines to line them up, and then just flip between the images. It should become clear what changes you should make.



Luckily there are plenty of pictures of Arnold out there, so you can do this for plenty of different angles.

almighty_gir

so anyway thanks for the crits. worked hard overnight on proportions and shapes, haven't really worked on the ears at all though, i'll get round to those eventually.

i did get bored and moved up to a third division level though, not like i can't slide back down to change big proportion issues.

oh, and i watched terminator 2... again...

seforin

shut up bevis




forhead = huge

lower jaw not wide enough

dont get me started on the nose

continue the work

Jeremy Wright

I think you need to ditch the hair altogether until you've worked more on the overall shape of his skull/head. His jaw/chin needs to be wider and not come to such a point.

Honestly, there are TONS of reference pics of arnold on the net. I'm not seeing much Arnold in you head sculpt, so you need to slide back down to a lower subdivision level and work some things out. Don't give up and don't make the mistake of continuing on to details before making the correct understructure.

pliang

The chin and nose is what's really stopping it.

Pedro Amorim

when i first saw it i thought of duke nukem :S
now i see you were going for arnold :S

Gmanx

He looks a lot different now - the ravages of age and all that, but you're obviously going for the T2 period. Because Arnie was a bodybuilder, there's very little fat on his face. There are very well defined muscle groups - like the ring of muscle around the mouth, and the jaws. He also has quite strong bone structure - cheeks, brows and the bridge of the nose are all important.

Can you show us your refs? Often if the front and side refs don't match up very well you can find yourself tweaking back and forth without getting anywhere.

Try to find a clip of him turning from face-front to profile (or vice-versa) and keep using that to check your progress against.

It looks like you're trying to nail the 'character' first, but try get the underlying anatomy right to start with.

Joao Sapiro

dont get past subdivision level 0 or 1 thats where you do most of the shaping up . right now you didnt even made his skull shape look near accurate a human one , so i would first try to get all the shapes in the lowest level to work out. Good luck mate

almighty_gir

downside to having my creative machine in the other room is that i have no net on it, so it's hard to come and read these crits before i do more work :P

i realise the importance of shaping the whold head, but to be honest the hair is placeholder at best as that will be low polied and alpha planed later anyway. so i'm concentrating on the face.

i think i have the lips down, i need to fix the nose, and move the bottom of the cheeks a bit higher. i think i have the brow ridge right though. i'm getting there with the chin.

trying to find refs all from the same time period is a friggin nightmare, trying to find ANY pics of him side on is even worse, the only "decent" one i found, is from T3... and yah, that helps a bunch :P

here's the refs i'm using for the most part, followed by my latest update.

Gmanx

You're getting there, I can see progress. The jawline and chin is a little too 'cut in' underneath - Arnie has a little more meat under there. I don't see anything wrong with including the hair - since it helps with establishing the overall volumes. I wouldn't sub-div too much until you're VERY happy with the look you have.

Take a look at the Making of Moff, a character tutorial by our very own 'Daz' Pattenden - there's some invaluable hints in there.

Also I found a few refs which illustrate what I think is the key to nailing this likeness. Arnie's mouth sits on a ring of muscle (as I said previously) and when he's bulking out - as for T2, Predator etc - there's a definite 'change of planes' on his face which I've highlighted in green (you can see it on your first ref pic too). It gets softer and less defined as he gets older (as in your T3 pic). If you get that looking right, you'll be a long way ahead.

almighty_gir

yeah my problem is getting them that defined from the front, but still looking ok from the other angles, although i think i've done alright with this go.

Joao Sapiro

do you have perspective on ?

almighty_gir

i'm guessing that's a setting in zeebrush?

Neox

well zbrush has norealö perspective, but if you press 'P' you have something that appears to be a perspective.

Odin Chuvak

Personaly what helps me is turning on perspective and cranking the focal shift up to around 100 or was it 12. At any rate higher.

Joao Sapiro

also go back to the basic subdivision levels and work there , i think i already mentioned this, but its better to mention again, as it is the most important step

almighty_gir

ok tried working with perspective on, and saw quite a few things to change, so i did

hopefully this looks a bit better?

aesir

give us more angles plz.

Joao Sapiro

right now what i think is that you lack the basic understanding of face anatomy and shapes, so right now its like you are trying to sculpt the skin without thinking the bone structure beneath it , and that is REALLY important.

almighty_gir

quite possibly. and while i agree with the importance of learning "fundamentals", i should point out that i've learned art the same way i learned guitar: my own way. and being that i've done this stuff a quarter of the time, and with better results (relatively speaking) than i had with the same ammount of time playing guitar, i would probably argue that i'm not doing it wrong, or badly either. seeing as i'm a qualified guitar instructor now heh.

i actually modeled the basemesh over the top of a skull too, so yes, i do know where the bony ridges etc. should be, the main difficulty i'm having is consistancy in references, when it comes to finding good pictures from T2, either the lighting is shitty, or the are all the same pose/facing the same way.

if i look for pictures from other movies, i'm sure you're aware that there is a difference of quite a few years between the films, so that's not much help either.

every crit i've been given, i've followed up on. so while yes i might agree with you, that i've a lack in fundamental understanding, my argument is this: it doesn't look horriffic, it only needs some work in the right direction to get it looking right (and if i could figure out how to set up lights in zbrush to emulate some of my references.... GRRRR). so, what would you change?

spacemonkey

you at least need to understand the planes of the head, your forehead is very squared from the front and lacks real brow definition.
Stop looking at these crappy promotional shots and grab a copy of commando, terminator, last action hero whatever and watch it to get a real sense for the shapes of his head - then get screengrabs of him!