Just because the majority believes it doesn't mean it's right...I pretty much think the same thing as blankslatejoe, It's not religion it's pretty much any belief being shoved in my face. Not exactly "offensive", i know what their intentions are...but shouldn't it be a little more neutral? "Thanks." works for me. I think if people who work with the public are being told not to say "Merry Christmas" at Christmas time...I don't think signing your mail to a complete stranger with "God bless you." should be acceptable either
Dan: Heh, since when is getting worked up about stupid crap that doesn't matter an instinct? While you're complaining about the guy in front of you's t-shirt slogan, you could get eaten by a t-rex. Nice instincts.
I dont know who told you guys you get to go through life without hearing other people's opinions, but you're living in fantasy land. Deal with it.
It's this kind of childish "if something irritates me in the slightest, then the person irritating me must change, because there is something wrong with them, not me" mentality that is making free speech less and less free.
If someone comes to your door with a bible and wants to talk to you about jesus, you open the door, say hello, and politely tell them you're not interested. If they persist, say you are sorry, wish them a good afternoon, and close the door (without slamming).
Congratulations, you've just completed the first course in How To Be A Reasonable Human Being 101.
You don't need to go to HR and complain, you don't need to make a thread on polycount on how it offends you, and you don't need to bitch about it to your friends. Nobody cares. Grow up. If you can't handle an innocent difference in opinions that isn't forcing anything on you, you probably never learned how not to be insecure after middle school. Sucks to be you.
[ QUOTE ]
I dont know who told you guys you get to go through life without hearing other people's opinions, but you're living in fantasy land. Deal with it.
[/ QUOTE ]
and that is why i hate the internet-generation. the new religion is 'brutal honesty' and everyone thinks everyone should know their opinion, regardless of tact or circumstance.
no one told me i get to go through life without getting raped, but I'm sure as hell going to be offended when it happens.
[ QUOTE ]
It's this kind of childish "if something irritates me in the slightest, then the person irritating me must change, because there is something wrong with them, not me" mentality that is making free speech less and less free.
[/ QUOTE ]
It was a business email. He can worship a can of baked beans (at least that exists) for all I care. He can walk down the street proclaiming that he loves jesus and rainbows. He can write book about the truth of the universe and I'll not bother buying it.
He invoked religion in a business email.
I didn't ask for the shipping costs of a cut-throat razor and some theistic advice.
[ QUOTE ]
Overall I would just say it's just not professional.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is my point. Had my mate J mailed me inviting me to the pub, and added a god bless and some quote about destroying infidels, I wouldn't give a damn. If the mormons sent me an unsolicited email about how great they are, that'd be spam and if it got through my filters I'd just mark it as spam.
Ferg, really, now ... what the blithering fuck are you talking about? Are you after the polycount prize for most irrelevant sanctimonious posturing of the week or something?
I don't know about anyone else, but I'll get irritated by the things I choose to, thanks all the same. And I'll get irritated by things thrust upon me in the blink of an eye.Will I deal with it? Might do. Might not. Depends. But I do think I'll slam my front door if I want to, I've got a two hundred grand mortgage on the fucker that says I can. And while I do all that, I'll feel quite safe from hungry dinosaurs too.
Can someone help me out with why I felt the need to explain any of that?
Miles - Nah, s'alright. It won't be for long, but I am gonna get my moneys worth while I can dammit
Fergs got a point though - I do get intensely irritated by tshirt slogans. "Ooh look at me, I choose to express my character through a limited catalogue of bad, obvious desgn, aren't I wacky" ... No you're not wacky, you're just a cunt. But I do make sure I keep a plastic cup of water handy ... Y'know, just in case ... Good for warning about heavy footsteps ...
I always assumed that's what cranny meant, but I have no memory of ever learning it.
(I agree with per, mostly, but only because he really wordily said what I said, in a more pompous/hostile way, which will get a lot more attention iguess)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What bothers me is that most people don't see ... why a person could possibly be offended.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Of course, I realize that some people would find a lot of what I just wrote to be offensive
[/ QUOTE ]
Why would anyone be offended by what you just wrote? That was very diplomatic the way you shit on the beliefs of the majority of humankind. I mean, it's not like you said "God bless you" or anything - now THAT would have been offensive!
[/ QUOTE ]
The difference is I acknowledge that my beliefs may be offensive to others, and that's why I don't proselytize in business emails or to random people on the street. Why is being overtly atheist or agnostic "shitting on the beliefs of others," but being overtly Christian is perfectly acceptable? Why is professing that the divinity of Christ is an obvious myth more offensive than the belief that the unbaptized burn in an eternal lake of fire?
You can believe whatever you want, and you can rant like a lunatic about it to every person who crosses your path. You have the right to conduct your business how you see fit, but why is it so unreasonable for Rick to react in the way that he did? If it were a Christian who refused to do business with a person who signed their email "where knowledge ends, religion begins" instead of a Bible verse, no one would consider him unreasonable. Why is that?
I have no idea, matey. What I do know is that this entire thread is ridonculous, I'm really not at all taking it seriously, and that it'd be a lot better if everyone was laughing and no one was getting his or her panties in a bunch.
What I really want to know about is haggis. What's up with that, Rick? Honestly, sheep's stomach? That sounds way more offensive than any email.
Haggis is fucking beautiful. I've ordered it for dinner on Monday, and I had a haggis, neeps and tattie pie the other night after we got in from the pub.
I just find it funny that it has escalated to this. Rick didn't bitch and moan in some childish manner as Ferg would have you believe. He did the most politically correct thing, and took his business elsewhere. He didn't reply to the guy telling him to get fucked based on his religious views, he didn't reply to the guy with some anti-religious quote, nor did he press any kind of views on this John fellow. He wasn't happy with the consultant's response to his query for whatever reason and made his decision based on that.
I for one am not a religious person, I was however brought up as a muslim, I have studied the religion, I learned to read arabic, I know the 5 daily prayers, I have fasted during Ramadan, I've been to the mosque.
Even after all that exposure to the religion, it bothers me and it makes me uncomfortable when I hear the word "insh'allah" (the spelling is probably wrong), which I believe means 'with Allah's will'. I take the same approach as Rick has, not to point it out and correct the person. But to just not associate myself with it.
I have in the past received an e-mail from a company with the "God bless you" sign off and was bothered by it then, and will probably be bothered by it in the future. However, I am not offended by it. There is a time and place for religion and it not in a professional business environment (unless its a religion based and/or religious affiliated business).
[ QUOTE ]
I dont know who told you guys you get to go through life without hearing other people's opinions, but you're living in fantasy land. Deal with it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then the further down the post.
[ QUOTE ]
You don't need to go to HR and complain, you don't need to make a thread on polycount on how it offends you, and you don't need to bitch about it to your friends. Nobody cares. Grow up. If you can't handle an innocent difference in opinions that isn't forcing anything on you, you probably never learned how not to be insecure after middle school. Sucks to be you.
[/ QUOTE ]
Looks like someone needs a taste of their own medicine, methinks.
OMG Per your new sig is well a bit over the top to say the least. I would say that would be more offensive then saying just god bless because now it's racial.
keyserzose"Why is being overtly atheist or agnostic "shitting on the beliefs of others," but being overtly Christian is perfectly acceptable?"
Since when is being overtly christian acceptable. Jesus died for doing what he did and people still die as martyrs for it. Perhaps alot of people dont mind Christ followers so much because they are trying to be loving and careing and working towards peace and healing on earth like Jesus did. The main point of christianity isnt just getting into heaven, its also bringing heaven here on earth. Many people dont realise this,sometimes me included.
What does an extremely agnostic/athiestic person try to achieve? other than turning people away from faith,which an athiest would usually like and deem as positive, how does it "help" anyone? is there any need for them to love, care or nurture other people or this world?
this is getting off topic...
I think suprore and per said some good points.
Good points have been made. Dan, I love you, but I wish you'd try to better understand my rantish blather. It really is pretty deep, meaningful stuff, once you get past the web forum turd layer. There's some good stuff in there, man, you just gotta dig a little.
Seriously though... offended by an email signature? Have we really nothing better to do with our time? (judging by the content of this thread, I would say not)
For a very long time, Christianity has been the most socially accepted religion in the world. While I respect the gist of what you're saying, I think it's coming off too defensive and hostile, and will probably just lead to more fighting. I don't think it's how you intend to sound, but it basically reads as 'christians are better and you guys are persecuting us ', which is definitely going to start some arguments.
As for your question, Atheists try to get things done. They believe that faith is a handicap to humans thinking effectively, so i guess from an atheists' perspective it's just as noble to bring earth away from heaven as bringing heaven to earth is from a christian's.
As for agnostics, I guess it kinda depends. It's really a pretty broad term, and it's very likely an agnostic theist, for example, is going to support some specific religious ideals. It's kinda hard to choose to believe that there is some god and not have a few favorite teachings, either from one religion or many.
[ QUOTE ]
Since when is being overtly christian acceptable.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would say since about 1,600 years ago, when Christianity was adopted as the state religion of the Roman Empire.
[ QUOTE ]
What does an extremely agnostic/athiestic person try to achieve?
[/ QUOTE ]
I can only speak for myself, but I would say: reason, logic, peace, compassion, a better understanding of our world through science, etc. It's been my experience that most atheists and agnostics are compassionate, caring people who are strongly opposed to things like war and intolerance. I don't understand why you seem to believe that only religious people are capable of love and caring.
Replies
I dont know who told you guys you get to go through life without hearing other people's opinions, but you're living in fantasy land. Deal with it.
It's this kind of childish "if something irritates me in the slightest, then the person irritating me must change, because there is something wrong with them, not me" mentality that is making free speech less and less free.
If someone comes to your door with a bible and wants to talk to you about jesus, you open the door, say hello, and politely tell them you're not interested. If they persist, say you are sorry, wish them a good afternoon, and close the door (without slamming).
Congratulations, you've just completed the first course in How To Be A Reasonable Human Being 101.
You don't need to go to HR and complain, you don't need to make a thread on polycount on how it offends you, and you don't need to bitch about it to your friends. Nobody cares. Grow up. If you can't handle an innocent difference in opinions that isn't forcing anything on you, you probably never learned how not to be insecure after middle school. Sucks to be you.
A casual god bless wouldn't bug me but the scriptures would. It's the same way with bumper stickers, and roadside billboards.
Overall I would just say it's just not professional.
I dont know who told you guys you get to go through life without hearing other people's opinions, but you're living in fantasy land. Deal with it.
[/ QUOTE ]
and that is why i hate the internet-generation. the new religion is 'brutal honesty' and everyone thinks everyone should know their opinion, regardless of tact or circumstance.
no one told me i get to go through life without getting raped, but I'm sure as hell going to be offended when it happens.
It's this kind of childish "if something irritates me in the slightest, then the person irritating me must change, because there is something wrong with them, not me" mentality that is making free speech less and less free.
[/ QUOTE ]
It was a business email. He can worship a can of baked beans (at least that exists) for all I care. He can walk down the street proclaiming that he loves jesus and rainbows. He can write book about the truth of the universe and I'll not bother buying it.
He invoked religion in a business email.
I didn't ask for the shipping costs of a cut-throat razor and some theistic advice.
[ QUOTE ]
Overall I would just say it's just not professional.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is my point. Had my mate J mailed me inviting me to the pub, and added a god bless and some quote about destroying infidels, I wouldn't give a damn. If the mormons sent me an unsolicited email about how great they are, that'd be spam and if it got through my filters I'd just mark it as spam.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'll get irritated by the things I choose to, thanks all the same. And I'll get irritated by things thrust upon me in the blink of an eye.Will I deal with it? Might do. Might not. Depends. But I do think I'll slam my front door if I want to, I've got a two hundred grand mortgage on the fucker that says I can. And while I do all that, I'll feel quite safe from hungry dinosaurs too.
Can someone help me out with why I felt the need to explain any of that?
Wow. May I recommend one of Dave Ramsey's books?
http://www.daveramsey.com/shop/Audio_CD_Special_With_Free_Boo_P227C48.cfm?afid=7
Fergs got a point though - I do get intensely irritated by tshirt slogans. "Ooh look at me, I choose to express my character through a limited catalogue of bad, obvious desgn, aren't I wacky" ... No you're not wacky, you're just a cunt. But I do make sure I keep a plastic cup of water handy ... Y'know, just in case ... Good for warning about heavy footsteps ...
1. a small, narrow opening in a wall, rock, etc.; chink; crevice; fissure
(I agree with per, mostly, but only because he really wordily said what I said, in a more pompous/hostile way, which will get a lot more attention iguess)
"what the hell does it MATTER as long as the person is an honest guy with a good heart?"
Oh the wit.
I guess I'd just be so happy to get a reply email I wouldn't notice such things. Repressed memories of my job-seeking days resurfacing....
[ QUOTE ]
What bothers me is that most people don't see ... why a person could possibly be offended.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Of course, I realize that some people would find a lot of what I just wrote to be offensive
[/ QUOTE ]
Why would anyone be offended by what you just wrote? That was very diplomatic the way you shit on the beliefs of the majority of humankind. I mean, it's not like you said "God bless you" or anything - now THAT would have been offensive!
[/ QUOTE ]
The difference is I acknowledge that my beliefs may be offensive to others, and that's why I don't proselytize in business emails or to random people on the street. Why is being overtly atheist or agnostic "shitting on the beliefs of others," but being overtly Christian is perfectly acceptable? Why is professing that the divinity of Christ is an obvious myth more offensive than the belief that the unbaptized burn in an eternal lake of fire?
You can believe whatever you want, and you can rant like a lunatic about it to every person who crosses your path. You have the right to conduct your business how you see fit, but why is it so unreasonable for Rick to react in the way that he did? If it were a Christian who refused to do business with a person who signed their email "where knowledge ends, religion begins" instead of a Bible verse, no one would consider him unreasonable. Why is that?
What I really want to know about is haggis. What's up with that, Rick? Honestly, sheep's stomach? That sounds way more offensive than any email.
De-lish.
I for one am not a religious person, I was however brought up as a muslim, I have studied the religion, I learned to read arabic, I know the 5 daily prayers, I have fasted during Ramadan, I've been to the mosque.
Even after all that exposure to the religion, it bothers me and it makes me uncomfortable when I hear the word "insh'allah" (the spelling is probably wrong), which I believe means 'with Allah's will'. I take the same approach as Rick has, not to point it out and correct the person. But to just not associate myself with it.
I have in the past received an e-mail from a company with the "God bless you" sign off and was bothered by it then, and will probably be bothered by it in the future. However, I am not offended by it. There is a time and place for religion and it not in a professional business environment (unless its a religion based and/or religious affiliated business).
[ QUOTE ]
I dont know who told you guys you get to go through life without hearing other people's opinions, but you're living in fantasy land. Deal with it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then the further down the post.
[ QUOTE ]
You don't need to go to HR and complain, you don't need to make a thread on polycount on how it offends you, and you don't need to bitch about it to your friends. Nobody cares. Grow up. If you can't handle an innocent difference in opinions that isn't forcing anything on you, you probably never learned how not to be insecure after middle school. Sucks to be you.
[/ QUOTE ]
Looks like someone needs a taste of their own medicine, methinks.
Welcome to the internetz.
-caseyjones
Since when is being overtly christian acceptable. Jesus died for doing what he did and people still die as martyrs for it. Perhaps alot of people dont mind Christ followers so much because they are trying to be loving and careing and working towards peace and healing on earth like Jesus did. The main point of christianity isnt just getting into heaven, its also bringing heaven here on earth. Many people dont realise this,sometimes me included.
What does an extremely agnostic/athiestic person try to achieve? other than turning people away from faith,which an athiest would usually like and deem as positive, how does it "help" anyone? is there any need for them to love, care or nurture other people or this world?
this is getting off topic...
I think suprore and per said some good points.
Seriously though... offended by an email signature? Have we really nothing better to do with our time? (judging by the content of this thread, I would say not)
Since when is being overtly christian acceptable.
[/ QUOTE ]
For a very long time, Christianity has been the most socially accepted religion in the world. While I respect the gist of what you're saying, I think it's coming off too defensive and hostile, and will probably just lead to more fighting. I don't think it's how you intend to sound, but it basically reads as 'christians are better and you guys are persecuting us
As for your question, Atheists try to get things done. They believe that faith is a handicap to humans thinking effectively, so i guess from an atheists' perspective it's just as noble to bring earth away from heaven as bringing heaven to earth is from a christian's.
As for agnostics, I guess it kinda depends. It's really a pretty broad term, and it's very likely an agnostic theist, for example, is going to support some specific religious ideals. It's kinda hard to choose to believe that there is some god and not have a few favorite teachings, either from one religion or many.
Since when is being overtly christian acceptable.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would say since about 1,600 years ago, when Christianity was adopted as the state religion of the Roman Empire.
[ QUOTE ]
What does an extremely agnostic/athiestic person try to achieve?
[/ QUOTE ]
I can only speak for myself, but I would say: reason, logic, peace, compassion, a better understanding of our world through science, etc. It's been my experience that most atheists and agnostics are compassionate, caring people who are strongly opposed to things like war and intolerance. I don't understand why you seem to believe that only religious people are capable of love and caring.