Politics and religion in a business response
polycounter lvl 18
There were no politics, but I lumped it into the title anyway.
I'm not religious, but many people are. Many people have got religious quotes as their signatures in messageboards and emails. Yeah, whatever floats your boat.
Now, I've been sourcing some things online, and had an issue with international postage costs not being available at checkout, so I mailed the company.
They responded, but the guy who emailed me to sort out the problem (they had a broken field on their form) singed off with "God bless you" before his name, and then in his email signature he had some bible quote.
This really offended me, to the point where I decided not to purchase from them (and in fact pay a few quid more for the same item from another company).
I suppose if you are a bible salesperson that'd be fine, but I was buying a razor.
So, is it acceptable to use religion in BUSINESS emails? Is it likley to drive away customers?
I'm not religious, but many people are. Many people have got religious quotes as their signatures in messageboards and emails. Yeah, whatever floats your boat.
Now, I've been sourcing some things online, and had an issue with international postage costs not being available at checkout, so I mailed the company.
They responded, but the guy who emailed me to sort out the problem (they had a broken field on their form) singed off with "God bless you" before his name, and then in his email signature he had some bible quote.
This really offended me, to the point where I decided not to purchase from them (and in fact pay a few quid more for the same item from another company).
I suppose if you are a bible salesperson that'd be fine, but I was buying a razor.
So, is it acceptable to use religion in BUSINESS emails? Is it likley to drive away customers?
This discussion has been closed.
Replies
i do NOT want to be blessed by someone else's god. If they think i should be blessed, then they should fucking well keep it to themselves.
Personally, I think it's best to leave religion out of the work space completely, mainly because it's such a touchy subject. Just a discussion about religion, can start a huge confrontation between employees.
So, should we want to deal with real people while doing business (in your case a purchase) or do we want everything nicely regulated so that there is no possible ground for offenses.
But it's always your choice to voice your views and ideas as a customer, and you did that by withdrawing potential money due to the fact that someone is expressing his religiousness without you really choosing that to be content of your correspondence (so you could say it is imposing on you) leading to you expressing the fact that you disagree with religion or any kind of these (christian in this case i guess) views, maybe evenm that you are actively against religion and like to take the chances to declare that in a war against it
or maybe you have become really sensitive towards issues like that due to living in the UK for so long, dan's like that
To be honest, I would have done the same. (not create a thread or ponder about it but probably thought to myself 'lol)
If he where my employee I would ask him to keep his religious ambitions to himself as a private experience (in his own life and people etc.) rather than while representing the company breaking the ambivalent appearance of a professional company in the year 2007 that wants no group indentations (because I think thats what expressed organized religions conveys) so that it can attract all customers with the one thing that it wants to get rid of, the product, so even it just may be a low percentage in the case of religion that is actually driven away, multiply that by time and suddenly the wage of that dude has gone up for you and he's not seeing anything of it.
Even if it's an old man or women or a US citizen it's not a suppression of religion, I can't forbid you to act upon your believes but I can set the rules of presentation and if they exclude religion and you want to keep your job 'you better NOT sell MY razors to rugged scotts with your god at your side OLD puritan hermaphrodite! YOU HEAR! or i'll make sure that justice will be served, NOW, by me, with the razor'
So yeah, religion in my eyes should be a private matter and is not good for a company to have itself relate to (depends of course what the target audience is) it causes and effects as we can see, and I'm a 100% sure it results in loss of money due to identification issues with groups as it will please religious customers and they'll buy again so increase in money yay, so flippady flip, ying yang
it's up to the company how much freedom and attention they pay to their employees and their image but i'm sure that they generally have other more costly things to worry about than that anyway.
Shit like 'god bless you' god, I've been around less years on this planet and that just skims past my consciousness like most politness
yay, i'm feeling much better, physically, now, cheers for being offended by religion
What is so different or offensive about the fact that someone wishes good things for you and your life anyway? If I ended an email or letter to a person "have a good day" or "God bless you", to me its very similar.
Although I dont think its always altogether appropriate to involve politics/religion/opinion in official business relations. There may be some circumstances where its actually very appropriate and this should be up to the individual.
anyway, there's a big difference between "bless you" as a passing comment, and "god bless you" as a loaded statement. And along with "aww bless" and knowing smiles, it should be sent into the abyss
I don't think religious subject mater should be kept out of oh say a portfolio, if you do work for a religious organization show it off if you want. It's work that was paid for just like any other.
On the other hand it can be a useful piece of info that gives you leverage, as bastardly as that can be. You know a little bit about how they tick and that can pretty helpful for example if its a client you're trying to woo you might think twice about taking him/her on a non-stop bar tour and send a fruit basket instead, maybe even pick out a benign bible verse to butter them up.
i mean even if intentionally linked to the omni being god 'god bless you' is probably the nicest thing you will get, like hey, i think your life is valuable enough to make my god watch out for you ... I think the word 'bless' is the actual annoying thing, a bit like a golden pony drilling into your head
"I hope this helps
Regards, John"
it was
"I hope this helps
God Bless You
John
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."
I didn't exactly have to read between the lines.
haha. that's a bit more explicit, isn't it?
especially with that particular quote - i can definitely see what you were talking about now.
Bible quotes start to push it a bit into the preachy side, and there are plenty of offensive things people can do with judging people, but in general I wouldn't give a shit about someone just saying God Bless You, and unless someone was telling off my mom or something I would still do business with them if it's going to save me lunch money.
ghostscape - people say tons of stuff without meaning any offence, but that doesn't mean they don't make you want to throw up on them
From Johns point of view you could possibly look at it like this:
Maybe God knew it would offend you slightly and you would start a forum thread about it and many people would consider His place in their workplace. So God found John here and placed on his heart to be bold and put a note like this on a random business email.
...and here we are discussing God and business on polycount.
rick, why not reply invoking lucifer and add a quote from alastair crowley as your sig? Even up the balance ...
ghostscape - people say tons of stuff without meaning any offence, but that doesn't mean they don't make you want to throw up on them
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I am sure you had a poker face for this, but it's all hilarious
On a vaguely related note, how would people feel if they got a business e-mail signed off with "May Allah's blessings be with you" and a quote from the Koran?
On a vaguely related note, how would people feel if they got a business e-mail signed off with "May Allah's blessings be with you" and a quote from the Koran?
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Im a christian and I wouldnt mind. Though I would tell the person I was a christian I wouldnt tell them to stop. I would enjoy a conversation about the Koran and the Bible. Maybe I would sign of my emails back with my own quotes if they dont mind.
Yes! Religious Quote Throwdown!
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LOL yeah! it would be fun. Ive got some muslim friends in south africa(I grew up in south africa) and we had good fun discussing life and religion and such. Im in the uk now, south africa was culturally very interesting.
ghostscape - people say tons of stuff without meaning any offence, but that doesn't mean they don't make you want to throw up on them
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Yeah but I'd just roll my eyes, not get offended.
Anyhow I highly suggest that you sign off all future e-mails with "Blessed is the mind that is too small to hold doubt" From Warhammer40k
You'd be surprised how many people just don't understand why you *wouldn't* believe in god, and can't even fathom why that would offend you. ( all of midwestern and southern america!)
it bothers me the same way when i get emails that end with:
"have a nice day,
and fuck Bush,
-bob"
sounds off topic/unrealistic, but it happens eerily close to that quite frequently these days in my demographic.
I mean, it doesn't matter what I think--its the impression of what they think assaulted at me. I dont really care to hear it.
I think your earlier note on politics might not be too far removed, rick..I think unsolicited political comments and unsolicited religious comments hit the same exact nerve for me.
I think you responded the best way you could...you just took your business elsewhere. The guy was probably doing what he thought would best show you he was genuine. So regardless if you agreed with what he said, maybe his sincerity could be appreciated?
...and here we are discussing God and business on polycount.
...and now people may be thinking: oh crap we are making his bible quote come true by talking about his God in this mostly ungodly place.
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oh the missionary view, i'm sure he sees the whole world like that and we are not really discussing god here are we, we are discussing the missionary advertisment and the placing of english words in the wrong manner (mother superior jumped the gun)
but honestly, if you don't see it like suprore you probably have a bit of anger left for any human and people like that do get it, even if they are trying to give the person comfort in god during a razorbuy (allthough, 'I hope this helps blablabla, maybe implys an understanding that it might not help the person because he doesn't put value in the idea of an absolute being hanging out in chooshy heaven, so no real offence) ... compensation ventilation
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...and here we are discussing God and business on polycount.
...and now people may be thinking: oh crap we are making his bible quote come true by talking about his God in this mostly ungodly place.
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oh the missionary view, i'm sure he sees the whole world like that and we are not really discussing god here are we, we are discussing the missionary advertisment and the placing of english words in the wrong manner (mother superior jumped the gun)
but honestly, if you don't see it like suprore you probably have a bit of anger left for any human and people like that do get it, even if they are trying to give the person comfort in god during a razorbuy (allthough, 'I hope this helps blablabla, maybe implys an understanding that it might not help the person because he doesn't put value in the idea of an absolute being hanging out in chooshy heaven, so no real offence) ... compensation ventilation
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Sorry about that Prs-Phil I just edited that post before I saw your post because thinking about it, my words were a bit childish. Hey I may be a christian but Im not perfect, I was just trying to see things from a more spiritual point of view like a believer in God might do or might not do.
I agree with suprore and honestly think that words like these are usually spoken with sincerity and care and arent meant to offend.
singed off with "God bless you" before his name, and then in his email signature he had some bible quote.
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This really offended me
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hahahahahahahahahah
*deep breath*
haaaahahahahahaha
shit, man.
are you for real? Or did you just say you were offended to get the thread rolling? I really hope it's the latter.
Just the other day I had a good little quote passed on to me from a coworker... "political correctness is an attack on free speech". You don't have to worship god, but for fuck's sake don't get your little british panties in a wad because someone else chooses to wish you well through their religious lens. Who gives a crap if he's trying to convert you or just be nice... are you afraid you'll get secretly converted without your consent if you hear people say things like that in a business setting?
I really don't believe you actually bought from another company, for more money, because of that.
I wish I could tell the jokes at work that I tell with my friends at home... but I can't. Because of people like you.
also... hahahahahahhahahah
We all have our own views on things, it's simply a more american stance to want to ensure others can observe these views. You only need to look at the cars on the road to see how much more common it is here in the states to attempt to 'represent' part of who they are all the time to strangers.
I think thats why christianity is much more commonly expressed and a negative reaction to this is viewed in a different manner than you might expect in the UK where its more common to keep it (whatever it is) to yourself.
I think this US way of living is spreading more and more because of TV so if the lad you are talking about was in the UK... well there you go.
You know I'm not religious, but I don't really care about the bless you's and so on, it's just a commonly established way of expressing ourselves.
Playing the 'lucifer bless you' card isn't a good comparison because its commonly established as something you might do to get a reaction from people, even though for many its a perfectly normal belief system.
I know what your point is, everyone secretly views (to some degree or another) people with opposing views much like handicapped children so they dont want to hear them talk about their differing delusions!
I don't think it will hurt a companies income level though because its just such an established thing. I think only a
minority group like yourself would consider it worth making a stand against something that is generally speaking, pretty trivial.
Granted I know your point, more than I will comment on, but I don't think its such a big thing in the scheme of things.
r.
How often do we hear curses as opposed to blessings? We live in a society where it is (unfortunately in my opinion) quickly becoming socially acceptable to speak curses such as "f you" or "d you" for any and all around to hear. In fact, I'm sure we've even heard curses used with a smile to show endearment (by some stretch of the term). But within this same social shift...blessings are now more commonly being met with offense and bitterness? Troubling.
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singed off with "God bless you" before his name, and then in his email signature he had some bible quote.
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This really offended me
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hahahahahahahahahah
*deep breath*
haaaahahahahahaha
shit, man.
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Seconded. I've got onions in my pantry with thicker skin than that
His sign off, in a reply to a business query included religios blessings and religious quotes.
Would I email back with a devil worshipping sig? No. I'm not a devil worshipper. Now, had he been a satanist, and signed off with
"Satan Bless you,
John
For I stand forth to challenge the wisdom of the world;
to interrogate the "laws" of man and of "God"!"
Would that have been ok? How about
"For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death."?
Are some quotes ok? Some blessings ok, some not?
Ror is right though, our culture here is all about flaunting your ideology whether it be political, religeous..or whatever. Cant do much but ignore it, or avoid it. Protesting it will only make more of it.
Are some quotes ok? Some blessings ok, some not?
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Well, from a completely objective perspective yes. Some blessings are socially acceptable, some aren't.
Personally, I wouldn't have gotten offended if he said 'I hope you die', but I guess I just have a hard time getting worked up over someone's signoff. I see it as the same thing as posting a thread about your 'i am awesome and always right' signature and saying 'This guy's pompous, I am deeply offended!'
"The penis mightier than the sword"
meh whatever . as long as i get the product....
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ahahah
im the same.
in fact i can be whatever religion you want me to be as long as that makes the price of the product go down.
Dan. Pint.
"May science and natural selection act favorably upon you."
If someone comes to my door, Bible in hand, and starts proselytizing to me unsolicited... that is considered perfectly acceptable behavior. But if I were to go door to door distributing Robert Ingersoll's Some Mistakes of Moses, I would be considered an asshole (and likely have the police called on me in some parts of this country). Religion is a spiritual pyramid scheme that people are all too willing to join because it only costs them their skepticism.
Of course, I realize that some people would find a lot of what I just wrote to be offensive, but that's exactly my point: this isn't the sort of thing I would be discussing in a professional correspondence.
I won't get all crazy pissed if someone says god bless you or whatever. Hell I've been cursed by muslims when I was overseas as well and told may Allah have mercy upon me and my family. That was a little different though and I wont get into what happened after that.
I probably would buy the product from a different company as well just out of principle.
It was mentioned earlier as well but I hate any email that says impeach bush or anything of that matter. I don't share those same beliefs and it's annoying to me.
What bothers me is that most people don't see ... why a person could possibly be offended.
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Of course, I realize that some people would find a lot of what I just wrote to be offensive
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Why would anyone be offended by what you just wrote? That was very diplomatic the way you shit on the beliefs of the majority of humankind. I mean, it's not like you said "God bless you" or anything - now THAT would have been offensive!
Rick, did you tell this guy why you weren't buying from him?