asian goth girl

dabu

Hey Guys,

Im starting m 2nd character, this time an over dressed asian goth girl. I know I should start with reference first, but I love how nobody can tell how it turns out at first.... Seriously, if you have any leads on good goth ref (corsets, gauntlets, boots, etc) please lemme know, cause its kinda a crap shoot right now...

Just getting the head down now, got any suggestions for how to model hair like this?

Used the joan of arc tut to model this one:

CheeseOnToast

OK, deep breath :

The back of the skull looks a bit awkward where it meets the neck. Check some skull reference for this one, and try to imagine whats under the hair.

The eyes are HUGE...easy mistake to make, but they need to be reduced in size a fair bit. Try to ignore the false lashes when you look at the pic, they make the eyes look bigger than they really are.

Her jaw goes too far back, shorten it up. The jawline is also softer than you have made it.

Pull back the brow ridge a little.

The nose "wings" and mouth corners are too far back into the face, pull them forward a bit.

The head seems to be squarer than you have it. Taper it a bit less towards the chin.

The mesh is decent, but try to get it to follow the wrinkle lines from the top of the nostrils around the outside of the mouth a bit more closely.

That's it for now. If you want some good reference, google "harajuku". It's a district in Tokyo where people dress in some crazy stuff, including goth/bondage clothes.

Asherr

ref depends on if by Asian you mean goths from Japan or just an Asian girl dressed as a goth. from what i've seen Japanese goths tend to be a bit more over the top and glam rock with anime influence (Harajuku goths for example). just google 'gothic clothing' for plenty of clothing sites.

WipEout

Here's the first thing I found on Google. Seems to be a lot of different goth clothes and jewelry and such on there. You could probably find something at hottopic.com too.

As for the hair, I would try doing the same thing as you did with the belly dancer-- kind of extrude from the skull for volume, then lay some polys down from the top of the head-- your reference model's hair looks kind of matted and layered (no offense to her) so I think layering poly planes with alphas down the sides would work well...


Did you want your model to look like the reference, or are you planning on deviating more after you finish the base mesh?

Hope I was some help...

David M

Vailias

As far as goth styling goes there are a lot of options, but a few certain archetypes that you can go with. Archetypal clothing is likely going to help the character read more how you want them than just cobbling together a bunch of black reference.
this site is one of my favorites regarding dark fashion and tends to cover all bases
http://www.dracinabox.com/womenssections.htm

The victorian goth (demure goth). here were talking old school funeral wear. Flowing dresses, corsets, hats, parasol. etc.

The industrial/techno goth (angry goth). chains, pointy bits, pants, black denim or canvas, cargo pants, zippers. Optional multi colored hair acceptable here.

The Graver (goth raver): a happier goth. Still tends toward black, but often can go red, purple, pink, latex, leather. Funky colored hair almost a MUST.

The Glam goth (Dramatic goth): See Marilyn Manson and Dita Von Teese. Slightly creepy, but always over the top. You could even squeeze the latest incarnation of Willy Wonka (Johnny Depp) in to this category. Props are a must.

The Emo Kid (derivative/mopey goth): Everything comes from Hot topic. Sips starbucks bought with mommy's money while complaining how unfair life is.

The Urban Goth (practical goth): Most every major character in the matrix could fit here (while IN the matrix that is). Generally durable fabrics, heavy boots, nothing too fancy looking, but it will keep the elements off you and hold plenty a pack of clove cigarettes and light weaponry. Leather, Heavy canvas, Engineer Boots *NO SPIKE HEELS* or black tennis shoes, Trench coat or other long coat acceptable. Corporate goth also fits into this category

edit: batman would be an Urban glam goth cross.

dabu

Wow, thanks forthe extremely detailed post, Vailias. Now Ive got to go and find myself reference material.

Thanks for the tips, COT. Heres how the wires are matching up to my ref. I get you on the eyes, but I can easily adjust later. Im thinking the hair will have feather adornments and color, like this:
http://www.dracinabox.com/fascinator.htm

but look more like this:

pior

Hmmm Dabu 3D views outines matching the ref perfectly does not mean your model is accurate... Take that crease you are putting from the corner of the eye, running down the side of the nose to the corner of the mouth as seen on your side render. Well, even if the model 'matches' this area still is wonky.

You might want to give a close look at the rather wide 'facial stripe' that your ref shows starting on the bridge of the nose, going diagonally right between the corner of the eye and the corner of the nose, and ends in the cheek fat. It's an important one to get right, and your edge flow needs to have it if you want to give a nice sense of depth to that area. ATM your edges in that area are following a horizontal/vertical grid, but you really want to have that structure going 45degrees if you don't want to have that weird 'polytwisting' effect that some hires model ie when the shape goes accross the flow of polys.

I can diagram that if you want?

Good luck for the rest!

Gmanx

I think Pior means this muscle strip here, on the right(our right) side of the face on this diagram:
http://ambient-whisper.cgcommunity.com/Tutorials/facial/Page-3.html

warby

i really don't like this kind of work flow with the 2d ref planes ... even if everything matches per pixel perfect it still looks like crap most of the time ... at least when i do it ...

and i see it here too your ref matches quite nicely but the model just doesn't look right ... having it look RIGHT is more important that having it fit to the reference if you ask me.

i say delete the ref planes and go from there

Gmanx

I use Daz's excellent Moff tutorial as a good workflow ref for this kind of thing - especially if you're more interested in a 'likeness'.

dabu

God I love this place. Pior, I would be honored if you have the time to scribble all over a screenie.





I did tweak a bit, but I obviously can polish this further out.



Thanks for the resource links, Gmanx. This post is serving as a great example of what a high value resource this place is.

Ninjas

You need to model in perspective view if you are using photo ref. Because most people model in the ortho views, 99% of what you see from photo refs looks terrible.
In fact, you need to set up cameras with the correct FOV for your different refs, and then maybe it will come out looking okay.

dabu

Well, I think my concept is coming along a little more solidly. Shes turning out to be a little more pedestrian in design than I previously imagined.

How do the proportions look to you? Im thinking the gloves are too long.

fogmann

Either that, or the legs are too short. But compared to the size of the head, I'd say better make the legs longer. She looks like a petite girl, if not midget. Ideal proportions would be 8 heads tall, but I if you are to keep her figure short, then maybe make arms a bit shorter and move the hips up a bit.

WipEout

8 heads would be comic book proportions-- average human height is generally around 7 heads or less. Measure her height to about 7 heads and you should be fine. I do agree with Fogmann though, her legs look too short. Generally, the legs should measure at about 3 heads from crotch to ankle. A good way to measure arms is to remember that the hands should fall with the wrists in line with the crotch, fingers about half-way down the thigh. At least, that's how I measure up. Also try using this as reference:

It's the golden ratio as applied to the human body. Quick explanation of it here.

Hope this helps,

David M

Steve Schulze

If I might step slightly off topic, the reference you're using is a little strange in the eye department. Has she had that epicanthic fold removing surgery or something?

greenj2

I agree with Jackablade on that, her eyes do look pretty crazy, almost like an anime character. What's your source on those images?

fogmann

[ QUOTE ]
8 heads would be comic book proportions

[/ QUOTE ]

Err...
I said ideal proportions, as shown by Loomis, and adopted from traditional perception of idealized human proportions. I mean, comic book proportions could be 3 heads per height too, like this. And seems that in games to make characters more appealing, concept designers would go with ideal proportions, e.g. 8 heads tall characters. No, that is not realistic, but is more appealing (and also more cliche). I only mentioned it because in the concept the girl looks closer to 6 than 8 heads tall, which I'd consider pretty short.

WipEout

[ QUOTE ]

Err...
I said ideal proportions, as shown by Loomis, and adopted from traditional perception of idealized human proportions. I mean, comic book proportions could be 3 heads per height too, like this. And seems that in games to make characters more appealing, concept designers would go with ideal proportions, e.g. 8 heads tall characters. No, that is not realistic, but is more appealing (and also more cliche). I only mentioned it because in the concept the girl looks closer to 6 than 8 heads tall, which I'd consider pretty short.

[/ QUOTE ]

Arg... figures that I can't find the image I was thinking of when I wrote that post... I have copies of some of Loomis' stuff as well as the "comic" proportions I was mentioning, although nothing on my computer to back me up... -- I should have been more specific-- you're right, 8-8.5 heads are used for "idealized" figures. Mainly in modern times for comic book heroes (is what I meant) and other figures along those lines. 7 to 7.5 heads are usually considered the standard for life drawings, and I just figured, for Dabu's girl, it didn't seem like he was going for the idealized look but a more realistic style. I just wanted to clear up my post, because... well... I didn't want to come off like an ass... Although I'm sure given enough time it'll happen anyway...

You're right, though, now that I think more about it, most any character concepts I see are usually drawn to Loomis' proportions. But personally, I think she might appear too tall at 8 heads. I guess it's really personal preference...

dabu

Well, I did take those photos myself. That is an actual, un altered person. I personally think she is drop dead cute, so thats why I have opted to try to create her digital, semi-idealized self.

I put in the heads for reference, heres where Im at. If anyone can offer an anatomical improvement via paint over, I would be delighted.

Guess it helps to have some understanding of basic anatomy and sketching ability 0_o

Quaggs

on those proportions, it seems as though her hips and groin are set too low, which makes the rest of her look awkward. Her naval should be at around three heads, her hips should be at 3 and 1/4 heads, and her groin should end at 4 heads, making her upper and lower legs each 2 heads in length, and the knee at 6 heads. right now your girls thighs are way short, and her calves/ankles are much too long.

WipEout

I still think 8 heads is too tall for women, even by idealized standards-- measuring by her head, she's 7.5 heads, though, after I messed with it a bit in PS, so....



I think the platform shoes are throwing you off-- draw her without then add them later-- they are what's making your legs took too short, I think.

I know my proportions aren't perfectly drawn, but I think you can get an idea for going about your own proportional drawings.

Hope this helps.

And Dabu, in case you are wondering, yes I am working on the dude right now, just taking a bit of a break

PS. She is really cute

dabu

Thank god for reference. Yeah, her proportions have changed. But Im liking it. I plan on modeling tons of detail into her clothing, so I want to make sure I nail the proportions first.

Im thinking some sort of corset/skirt combo.

dabu

small update, trying to get this model wrapped up...

EarthQuake

I think her face is too long and the corners of here lips are set back too far, also the nose looks like it sticks out a bit too much.

Joseph Silverman

Eyes are too big, maybe? Hard to tell from this far back. Also, I really don't like the blockiness behind her arms, or the polyflow in the chest. I would try this (remove red lines, add blue ones)



Otherwise, looking pretty cool, keep going.

dabu

alright, still trying to nail meshflow.

And figure out hair, sigh

dabu

geo is coming along, almost ready to start texturing...

still a little unsure of the proportions, shrank the head and redid hair which seemed to make a big improvement...

Shes starting to get a little stripperish, sigh. I was hoping for something more in the BDSM realm, guess Ill have to pull off all the ornate details in the texture. I want the corset skirt to be really detailed.

zenarion

Coming together really nice!
Will the shoulders bend properly with that few edgeloops?

dabu

great question. I *hope* so.

I should make a simple rig for her and test it out.

yeluis

real nice the way its coming. the only thing that others me is her nose. i think you should make it a bit more "refined" and pointy to get a sexier face going but its a very minor thing. Now texture that baby!

dabu

OMG.

I found my reference. Nice when your model lives on the other side of the country and can inspire you from afar.

How on earth am I gonna make that hair though? tons of alpha planes?

sigh. I am in loave.

http://www.plastikwrap.com/gallery.php?Gallery=15&ImgNum=0
http://www.plastikwrap.com/gallery.php?Gallery=15&ImgNum=12
http://www.plastikwrap.com/gallery.php?Gallery=15&ImgNum=4

dabu

ah corset worship. Finally got a vision for this lady.

Hope to unwrap and start texturing this week.

http://www.lovesickcorrectiveapparel.com/corset/customgalleryfour.html#row10

nealb4me

Saggy bum cheeks ftl. Fix.

dabu

Ah yes, and on to texturing.

I am trying to get a likeness on this, but only so much patience for it. If she looks hot, well, thats enough for me at this point, though if you see something easily tweakable, lay it on me.

Steve Schulze

The facial proportions are fairly out of whack.
The jaw line and chin need to be more delicate. The lips are a bit on the large side. The nose isn't too far off, but you need to work on the shading to get it to match. Her eyes are very distinctive. You need to pay real attention to their shape in order to get anything approaching a likeness. At this stage what you've got isn't very realistic - too large and lacking the shape, colour and texture of either a western or eastern person, or indeed a combination of the two which I'm guessing this lovely lady is.
Most of this stuff shouldn't be too difficult to achieve with a little vertex tweaking and some texture work. You mentioned you know this girl, so get yourself some really nice, well lit and clear shots of her face without the hair dangling in front of it and the like.

I might have a go at a paint over if you'd like.

EDIT: Actually, after lining the images up in Photoshop, the proportions are actually much closer than they initially appear. Its mostly just a matter of getting the shading right to sell the forms of the face.

Heres my attempt at a paint over. It isn't a terribly good likeness at all and the lips look pretty nasty, but hopefully there are a few things that'll help you get your texture looking the best it can.

Good luck with it.

Xena

Fix the eyebrow! Make them look like more delicated trimed. I remember when I still wore makeups back in days, eyebrow is the first thing that make you stand out and shows personality. (Not the lips as dudes always assume)

dabu

Jackablade, that was immensely helpful. Thank you thank you.

She lives on the other side of the country, and Ive been pestering her for shots exactly like that. However, Ive been able to make quite a bit of progress with the invaluable help of this forum.

Yeah Min, the eyebrows were off and were hurting the look.

Better? Big improvement me thinks:

Joao Sapiro

what lacks in texture wise is color in the skin, reds purples even some subtle greens, the skin has a shitload of color , right now yours seems from a plastic toy, lots of white highlights keep going, i like it with the hair

dabu

Thanks Johny. Not sure how far Ill push those values, but Ill get to it when I return to the head to finish it.

The body is coming along, finally found a design direction for the clothes. Id like the boots to be a little tougher looking. I'm thinking some straps that come off and add to the silhouette will help.

Also thinking about changing the hair, though I like the slightly evil. dark look shes got going...

pliang

No sign of lats, spine crease...fix that.

Also your fishnet seems to be stretching along the kneecap.

dabu

Thanks Pilang, haven't even touched the skin yet.

been painting a lot over the past few days. Funny, I never seem to know exactly how my pieces come out, but I keep hitting my stride about half way through.

The skirt bit under the corset could use some more interest, not sure exactly what though. Its kinda reading like a thick felt, and Id prefer something more texture rich like the corset...

Clothes are almost done, I'm going to give the gauntlets a slight re design so they resemble the boots a little more closely.

Next up, hair. And makeup. And Skin.

Sigh, still a ways to go. Guess shes more burlesque than goth, but I'm really enjoying designing the clothes. The boots are now my favorite bit...

culturedbum

So I'm posting without having read the previous conversation(its kinda late and I'm sleepy)
Nice progress on the texture dude! I would go further with it by adding some light blues and some yellows in the skin and a few more redish and blue shadows.

Try Ancient Pigs skin tutorial, its one of the best ones I've found so far. Its right here http://pig-brain.com/tut01/tut01_01.htm

Xena

Great Tutorial, Thanks!
I think the costume is gothic enough, but the waist seems a bit too long considering she's wearing high heels, especially from the back view

pliang

Agree on changing the sleeves...what I do would be scrapping one of the cuffs and adorn it a little but.

Jeremy Wright

Looks good.

Here are some more asian goth girl ref pics for you that might help with your clothing design: http://eternity8.sempai.org/misc/azngoths.php

dabu

Awesome tutorial, thanks for the link.

Still have some tweaking to do, and the gloves aren't done, she needs a back tat, and the shoulders need some minor adjustments.

Hair is WIP, can be optimized and cleaned up a lot. Still need to get that skirt working.

Joao Sapiro

you still have way too much whites in thes kin, making it look like a plastic doll, give the skin some warmth feeling

dabu

what color do you tend to add to white? I used blue and red for shadows, so a little green and yellow for hi lites?

Xena

I think highlights on nose area should be more red than any other parts because all the blood veins there. highlights on forehead(bony area) should be cool color (green or yellow? and under the chin should be purpleish if your highlights are yellowish.

You ever heard of smoky eye make up? I think that style will work great. BTW, lips are a little bit too wide from 3 quater view.(make her sad)

Panupat

Hi Dabu

I don't quite understand "asian goth girl." Is the girl asian? Any country in particular? Because she's looking very western right now.
If she's asian, might be easier to actually give her a nationality, like Japanese, for easier reference?