I am allowed to have an opinion right? even if it doesn't please everyone.
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Guess not. If you were to say this game isn't scary, you're going to upset those who wet there pants playing this, as they most likely did the same for Doom3, or perhaps such horror classics as "I know what you did last summer", and all three "Scream" movies. Enemies that constantly attack in a straight line, before they notice me, aren't frightening or immersive. What part is? Injecting yourself with Jedi powers? The mysterious guy on the radio who gives you perfectly timed instructions (Farcry)? Or the voice of the claymation little girls? Or the lights that somehow switch on when you approach? Including the history lesson in the elevator that is spoon fed to you. At least in HL2, the story of the city was presented to you by character interactions, and propaganda...instead of signs that say "hey, use/watch this". But, as I said, the levels are pretty. Yet, the gameplay feels like a adventure game designed by throwing random ideas into a hat, and tries to fill in the holes with traditional FPS actions.
Yeah this is by far some amazing customer service and 2k just trying as much as they can to fix this situation. Sad they had to deal with all this and not celebrate this awesome release but man good going 2k.
I think every studio / publisher could learn a lot from this.
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If you were to say this game isn't scary, you're going to upset those who wet there pants playing this, as they most likely did the same for Doom3, or perhaps such horror classics as "I know what you did last summer", and all three "Scream" movies.
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I dunno, I'm not sure that mocking people that find it creepy and atmospheric is the way to substantiate your conclusion from the DEMO that the entire game isn't as good as Half Life2. Understand that what freaks people out can be entirely subjective. I have never been remotely disturbed by any kind of mainstream slasher horror movie, but sit me in front of some David Lynch like 'Eraserhead' and I'll feel distinctly unsettled. Bioshock just touches that nerve for me I suppose. Wheelchairs, plastic surgery, fairground attractions, whatever, it just creeps me the fuck out. It gets way darker beyond the demo. The demo didn't get to you, and you don't get it, that's a shame and I guess it's not for everyone. But, being condescending toward the folks that found it atmospheric is just nonsensical. I could talk about Half Life 2's atrocious boat levels, but I'm not going to get into HL2 versus Bioshock with anyone unless they've played both games, and not just the demos.
I was very disappointed at the 2 install thing especially, and this new system (5 & 5) is awesome. It keeps massive pirating via one CD key much harder, and it allows those who OWN the game, to not worry about a 2 install limit, which is important.
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How exactly does the system prevent mass piracy when it's already been cracked to be removed entirely and that crack will be distributed with every widely available pirated copy?
How does having 5 installs prevent you from casually giving it to your friends?
It's a stupid system that does absolutely nothing except annoy people. It does not stop serious pirates. It does not stop casual pirates. It makes 2K look terrible and by extension it hurts Irrational (hint: they're now "2K" as well). It messes around with people's systems. It makes people jump through hoops if they decide to try and get rid of it.
And most importantly, it assumes guilt. You know, there's this little thing called "Labeling Theory". If you treat someone like a criminal all the time no matter what they do, eventually they'll figure out that they might as well be one.
Even if you buy the game it's advisable to crack it just to protect your system and make it run better. How fucked up is that? How does this make 2K "look better"?
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But, being condescending toward the folks... is just nonsensical.
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Kinda like being referred to as an ass, or a moron. I didn't want to post a review of this game, because I knew it would twist panties. My frustrations are towards the hype, the avalanche of fanboys that reinforced it, and the fact that giving in to the pressure led me to deal with some other hassle I'd rather not have to deal with on my system. Honestly, things like FOV, and number of installs are not a big deal to me. Not being able to remove intrusive and problematic software from Sony is. To me it's a decent game that tried to be clever. I'll stick with what works, and perhaps pick it up later to complete it when the wrinkles have been ironed out and the price on steam drops.
Honestly why the hell would you care how many times you could install it at one time if you are only playing it on one computer in your house? How many here actually have 5 computers in there house that they can play this game on at once?
Fuck this is getting annoying listening to all you nancys bitch about this. Sure at first I was a little annoyed but when I thought about it I realized bitching about it is stupid.
Promoting piracy is just plain dumb. Even more so on this board where all of us are either making a living making this stuff or trying to.
Seems to me like it's just a giant fucking witch hunt and no matter what the hell 2k does you stupid bastards wont be happy. So fuck off I'm sick of hearing about how you don't like the install limits and fov limits and how your mommy and daddy didn't love you when you grew up.
Go bitch on gamespots forums with all the other 12 year olds.
elysium --the game gets more open ended, more in depth, and a good deal more intense after the demo.If its not for you..than it's not for you.
But...If you want to compare this to half life 2 then you may be missing the point --this game is meant to pick up the slack that's been in the FPS genre for the last few years in regards to personalized character development and non-linear level design. You have to admit...HL2 sucked in both of those regards, but that's ok--it wasn't that kind of game. the fun of HL2 came from things OTHER than choosing which way to go and tailoring your character to your play style.
As for the doom 3 comparison, bioshock doesn't rely on the 'kill-the-lights-and-spawn-bad-guys' cheap shot as much as you seem to think. I think the demo gave the wrong impression of that.
As for your other random notes:
"Including the history lesson in the elevator that is spoon fed to you"--um, every FPS since half life 1 has relied on the scripted rails introduction. I personally thought this was a nice way to handle your first view of the city.
"the mysterious guy on the radio who gives you perfectly timed instructions (Farcry)" -that's a direct throwback to System Shock 2 and Deus EX. Farcry lifted it from them. So does Bioshock.
"the story of the city was presented to you by ...signs that say "hey, use/watch this". --that happens only in the demo, which is only the opening 20 minutes of the game. After the initial 'hey I'm a new user!' level the story is unvieled through voice recordings, scripted events, messages scrawled in blood, all sorts of stuff. They do a decent job varying it--just not in the demo.
"the gameplay feels like a adventure game designed by throwing random ideas into a hat," --yeah, I kind of agree with that..it worried me at first, but the further I get into the game the better they're tying things together. I'm impressed so far.
As for the 'avalanche of fanboys'--I think the people who have been waiting for another system shock 2 HAVE to be a bit vocal. The industry has taken more and more steps away from this style of involved gameplay and towards more twitch/arcade-y play-styles. If people aren't adamant, there's a good chance we won't see another game of this style in a long time.
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I didn't want to post a review of this game, because I knew it would twist panties. My frustrations are towards the hype, the avalanche of fanboys that reinforced it
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Hah. You knew your "review" would twist panties? Exactly, that's why you posted it. Refer back to gauss's explanation of the difference between posting to express an opinion, versus posting for the sole purpose of provocation. You clearly went out of your way to 'twist panties' with a "review" (of the demo) of "bloated overhyped wankfest sack of bullshit"
The level of vitriol in your line about your frustrations with the popularity of the game are pretty telling. Without having played the *actual* game, the venom that you have for it smacks a little of going against the grain for the sake of it imo. Which is every bit as cheezy as being a fanboy If you ask me.
Meh, whatevers, it's a great achievement. If you don't give it a chance, that's really your loss.
Well, considering a lot of the people in this thread do it for a living, it's probably a good idea to "give a crap about games" ... do you think professional car designers don't give a crap about cars? Don't see what you're getting at there.
Then again, your post wasn't really a sentence so I'm not sure if I entirely understand
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now BETTER!
Oh and I<ve been in the industry forever, and I still think that well, its Just games!
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Well obviously you are someone that doesn't really get into your job if that is how you feel. To most of us they aren't just games and that is the major problem we deal with when we talk to people about our jobs. Oh you play games or oh you make video games. Like it's some easy as pie, push a button and the computer does it all for us.
LOL, I didnt say our job was easy, oh noes u have been in the industry for 5mins and omg the PRIDE u have.
I mean it as Its not because someone say a game is Fucking AWSOME or a Fucking Turd, that this person is a Godamn asshat. It just a game, The different opinions we have about certain games doesnt justify what kind of person we are.
And just for the record, I wouldnt want to work with u aswell.
b1ll, I think what jesse was saying is that, to a lot of us, thinking that its 'just games' is what's been keeping the medium from being taken as seriously as, say, something like provocative books or films are.
I had fun with the Demo...probly buy it once I get a 360.....
I dont know ...whenever I hear respected artform, it makes me cringe. I don't think game art needs to be valiated or accepted by any mainstream. Because who are these people that dictate what art is- the same people who call Paris Hilton an artist, or shit on a plate and call it a tulip. Game artists are the Rodney Dangerfield of the creative community ..the most you can really hope for is the respect and praise of your peers...an judging by this thread, even that can be a tough sell
But what you are also forgetting that not everyone gets in to games purely for the games. I am in it for the art side of it
AND for the record I didn't actually insult anyone in this thread.
I would like to see anyone try anyone call me an 'ass' in real life:)or even call me a snob:)
(see, the smiley face makes it ok)
i used to be in it for the games/fun of it. but ever since i've joined these forums, i've become more observant of the art in the games.
Now whenever i make comments while playing games with my friends, they look at me like i'm a weirdo talking about 'what an amazing job the environment artist did'. or whatever.
Yep I've been in the industry for 5 minutes and I love my job. So what. Joe got the point I was trying to make. If you can't take your job seriously and think what we do as a serious medium then why should anyone else?
Anyways back to Bioshock. So far I love it. There are a few issues here and there with some obvious mirroring and seams in textures but every game has that.
I decided to harvest the little sisters my first go around just to play with all the plasmids I can and get my handle on the game play.
It's awesome freezing people and then smashing them to bits or setting them on fire and then electrocuting them like everyone else mentioned.
I'm in it for the game art as well. been sitting in too many IGDA meetings and meeting guys in suits saying they can turn a profit with mobile phone games and WiiWare...at least the art side is reliable, and from my perception, REAL.
That said, I've been watching the trailers for this game and hearing what the developers intended for it to be...Bioshock is a master class in creative direction. Might be the first hardcore game I pick up since my PlayStation 1 days!
b1ll You know what I think of your work man, and Ive always digged your no bullshit manner, so said with the greatest respect in the world, looking at this from the perspective of a freelancer working in a bubble versus being part of a team can give you a different outlook (and I know youve been on teams too but didnt dig it If I remember correctly?).
For me personally, when you have a stake in a small company striving to make a success out of itself, you start to care about the game in its entirety, way beyond just the Art. And FUUUUCK, when you've worked at the behemoth that is Electronic Arts for as long as I have, where it is literally an uphill struggle making anything good because of all the tards, my god when you leave you leave with a ferocious hunger to make something you can actually be proud of
So yeah, I tend to think about games in their entirety, as entertainment, more than just their Art. Bioshock is an awesome artistic achievement as far as Im concerned, but its also a great game.
In any case, that's kinda beside the point. I don't actually give a crap about the Bioshock hatin', what irks me is it appears to largely be coming from people who haven't *actually* played the damn thing, but are just instantly turned off by its critical acclaim, and that seems like a shame to me.
I get what you mean daz, and of course Bashing the game without having playing it fully Is POO.
Im not arguying that some game can be a great piece of art, or that U cant care about a game u have devoted shit loads of urself into, (been there done that,Thats why im freelance, and soon EXPANDING!).
I just feel that there is SOOOOOOo much hate regarding someone Opinion toward a fucking game,
In the end of the day, Its a game, Judging if im a douche or not because i played and didnt like the game or thought it was awsome, it just WTF for me,. Same if it was a movie or a fucking book.
I couldn't possibly agree more. The fact that Ruz thinks the game is cheap with marginal creativity, or elysium thinks its a bloated overhyped wankfest sack of bullshit in no way shape or form changes my opinion of them that I had before this thread existed.
If I read the first two chapters of a book, and it's doesn't interest me, I'm don't continue reading. If I test drive a vehicle, and it doesn't perform well, I don't buy the car and take it to the track. A demo should convince someone to play the full game, and for that it has failed. My opinion.
Ahhh good point Elysium. I have played a few demos and that is the feeling I got as well. I don't know to me Bioshock just gripped me kinda like Halo did. I never got into Half Life or HL2. I installed HL2 like 3 times. Played to about the same point each turn and it was just blah for me.
Same with WOW. A buddy gave me a trial account. I got on. Hmmm looks interesting...move around. I'm a noob. No one wants to hel me learn this game. I'm bored... Uninstall.
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If I read the first two chapters of a book, and it's doesn't interest me, I'm don't continue reading.
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Difference here being I bet you don't log on to a novel-writer's forum and declare such-and-such book as being a "wankfest bag of bullshit" or whatever based on the synopsis of a chapter or two.
They're all 'just' games, whether you care making them, playing them or hating them. Just likee movies, and books.
There's no need for games to be taken more seriously, wtf... did people here start thinking they needed to be poltical activists because we have tossers like Thompson and co. damning them?
They're still just games and thats ok
All this want to make otheres like what we like the way we like it is ridiculous and high maintenance. Get a life before you start sounding like some poncy french libertine byron style stereotype's getting their pants in a twist over your
new deodorant bottle being a different colour... which will not stand!!!!
The Dude Abides.
Now I'm off to drink whisky some, I'll come back later and shout condescendingly at people for a while like i know better, seems to be the thing to do in this thread
Oh and I love Bioshock btw, I feel a lot of envy for how cool their storyline, dialogue and voice casting is.
I really respect how someone got out the art deco books and stuck to them.
I bought the game the day before it came out, someone at toys r us didnt know better I guess.
I've been playing this on my 360 for the past week and am getting close to finishing. What an absolute blast!
I think 2k deserves quite a bit of credit for inventing a world full of so much life and creativity. The voice acting is amazing and listening to all the audio logs always gives me an chilly feeling not to mention all the little details with the deco style they incorporated. It felt like a nightmare back in time. Overall though I think they've done such a good job in so many areas I'd hate to spoil it for the rest. The demo does so little justice for what the rest of the game has to offer. Hats off to 2k for allowing me to be drawn into a game world again since Half Life 2.
I need god mode for all my games, because i spend too much time looking at the textures and props than the fact that i'm getting may ass kicked.
BTW taking your job serious is a good thing but at the same time it maybe whats slowly sucking the creative energy out of the games we play. Yes we make games, and they need to look good and be fun. But in order for them to be fun don't we need to have a bit of fun too?
I played the demo, i may buy it but at the rate i play games i might get 1/8th the way into it before halo 3 is out. Being a non hardcore gamer looking for great art is rather hard when all the big art quality titles are hardcore gamer titles.
tgz: haha, when i initially played the demo on the 360, i had to turn off that little hint system thing of theirs for much the same reason. i'm staring at the environment, which the game takes to mean "he can't figure out to zap the door with his lightning plasmid, guess we have to clue him in"
also, joke's on you for taking b1ll seriously. his replies are considered and posted in the time it takes you to even open the thread, and by then he's long gone.
cause u know, when u mostly post one line crap< w/lots of typos and AOLese, u prbobly dont taek threads very srsly and thats cool.. we ned all kinds of ppl here,keeps thngs interestng~!1
just like we need unstable 'wegians in here pouring out sneering putdowns and near-dadaist humor mixed with equal parts genuine sentiment and helpful criticism,
just like we need grumbly scots to mention whiskey one out of every five posts and put a word in about how the kids need to settle down.
in summary, i love you all. and to paraphrase vonnegut--dammit babies, you've got to be kind.
back to playing Bioshock! or should i say, Bio-schlock. ZING!
This is one of the most hatefull thread i have read on these forums so far everyons at each others throats, lets just say "to each his own". If you dont like the game you don't like it. If you like it good for you. If you take your job seriously good, if you don't whatever, stop bashing eachother.
If you dont have anything positiive to say dont say it you can crit the game but dont crit eachothers opinions.
back on topic:Spoiler dont read its not that big but im warning you anyways!!!!!!! dont read past this line..........
Personal attacks are awesome dont stop now! One thing I like about polycount is when you do start shitting on each other and each others opinions, it happens so often a week later nobody really remembers or cares because were onto the next argument. Cant say the same about other forums, I still don't like showing my face in some places.
I heard the Steam version doesn't have the DRM rootkit nonsense. So anyone whose been holding off because of this issue, buy the Steam version. Those sales might help to convince them in the future to either go online, or use a less intrusive key system.
I would be interested in playing this, but with only a 6800gt and a 3200XP, it wont look or play that well since I would have to play it in widescreen. That and Im broke, and saving my pennies for UT3.
to post "and saving my pennies fot UT3" in a thread absolutely filled to the brim with heady comments such as "this is a piece of art" and in general just trying to convey how deep an experience this is makes me smile, Oxy. I haven't played Bioshock yet, but I'm sure I'll love it, it's just that we so often complain about sequels to games that add hardly anything, that comment struck me as being bait for the fanboys, haha.
I'm not claiming ut is bad in any way, mind you, it's just that it's the twitchfest people claim Bioshock stands directly opposite to.
I dont disagree, but I already have been saving money for months, and again I dont have shader 3 support which Bioshock relies on soo much. I would rather wait until I have a new system specifically so I CAN enjoy the art in its glory. Than it looking like shit. With UT, I will be toning down the rez as it is for online deathmatches.
When Trackmania was released, it came with that shitty StarForce copy protection system. Earlier this year when Trackmania United was released, Valve announced that the Steam version would not include Starforce. So I hope you're right, Oxy. Maybe if we stop jumping at the games they release with this crap, they'll stop including it.
Almost everyone stopped using StarForce, Ubisoft was propably their biggest customer and they dropped it too.
I cant remember the details but some SF employee posted wares links to SF forums to "make a point" how people wares games that doesnt use SF. Also there were reports about SF fucking peoples computers up and stuff like that and it was more of a torjan than legal software. BTW all those ill effects were avoided if you applied the cracked exe before launching the game, if i remember that way you could even skip the reboot that SF titles requiered.
Galaxtic Civilizations 2 sold a lot of copies and it didnt have any kind of copy protection, not even cd check i think.
DRM is waste of money and if done poorly gets lots of customers upset.
got the game and damn nice ! only thing that pisses me off is that the reloads are ridiculous , im sick of games that pay attention to all details and leave reloadings look like ass , i know that you cant waste much time reloading , but i never saw anyone reload a revolver in 1 second...
the game crashes a lot too , and i even got a blue screen, but the new drivers fixed it , all left is stop the crashings...
I dont have much cash but Im gonna be doing a dissertation on "emotions and computer games" and bioshock may just well give me the fps which shows the potential of emotions in the fps genre?
Doom 3 was pretty braindead when it came to emotions, it embued fear and perhaps anxiety and exhiliration when fighting. Alot of fps have followed the doom trend, is Bioshock any different?
Also Bioshock just looks freakin amazing in every way!
BioShock produces many scares in the same way Doom 3 did - in fact at least two scares we practically lifted directly from D3 (I wonder if they were supposed to be direct references or homages, or if there's just only so many ways you can scare people that way). It doesn' tuse them quite as often as D3 though, which enhances the effect of them when they occur. Also, just like Doom 3, the game is absoloutely dripping with atmosphere oozing from every pixel (though Bioshock is another generation along from Doom 3). Where Bioshock differs is in the way it presents the player with a huge array of choices, that they can make based on information they recieve from several sources. Not just the much touted moral choices, but pretty intense strategic ones too (the strategy comes more into play on higher difficulty levels).
Additionaly you do to a degree become entwined in the world itself and the characters that inhabit it (both living and deceased). At no point did I have quite the level of lasting emotional horor that I got from System Shock 2, but there are definately elements of the horror that are psycological and will creep you out purely based on the recordings you can hear throughout the world, or the stories that the environment itself tells.
And then there are moments that will shock you in a totally different way. I'll also say that Bioshock is the only game I've ever played that made me jump on the second playthrough and managed to throw me a curve ball I never expected.
Fear, Anxiety, anger, exhilaration, empathy, disgust, shock, relief, self loathing, betrayed, awed, joyous and probably some other stuff I can't recal the words for (like that crawling knawing in the pit of your stomach when something is just too wrong to contemplate).
The last 25 minutes of gameplay suck monkey balls IMO - but the rest of the game is pretty damn great.
ged-- a lot of bioshocks emotions are not through direct interaction with the player--its more a general feeling of 'paradise lost' and lonliness, except when splicers are attacking of course.
some pretty interesting, serious thematics run throughout the game ways you dont normally see in games. everything from political commentary to comments on art and aesthetics.
The plastic surgeon level, in general, is kind of creepy--partially because of how much we're on the track toward that sort of society/standards.
It definitely elicits more emotion than any other recent fps I can think of. I mean...fps's aren't known for anything other than fear/adrenaline/ and occasionally camaraderie.
my roommate just got his XBox fixed and I tried the demo, its not as gripping as I had thought. Everything looks and sounds great, though a little on the dark side. The controls are nice and intuitive.
The beginning felt like total recall of System Shock 2, I guess that's a good thing and a bad thing. But I only played System Shock 2 a couple years ago, so its still pretty fresh in my mind.
I find myself spending too much time peering through debries on the floor looking for first aid kits rather than looking at the gorgeous environment. And I find myself asking "Why am I doing this" through the demo alot. Like when you first find the shock bolt plasmids, and you just jabbed yourself with the syringe, without knowing what it is or what it will do. Then as you're going through the agony of transformation the guy explains to you over the radio, "everything will be fine". That's a little weird.
Replies
I am allowed to have an opinion right? even if it doesn't please everyone.
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Guess not. If you were to say this game isn't scary, you're going to upset those who wet there pants playing this, as they most likely did the same for Doom3, or perhaps such horror classics as "I know what you did last summer", and all three "Scream" movies. Enemies that constantly attack in a straight line, before they notice me, aren't frightening or immersive. What part is? Injecting yourself with Jedi powers? The mysterious guy on the radio who gives you perfectly timed instructions (Farcry)? Or the voice of the claymation little girls? Or the lights that somehow switch on when you approach? Including the history lesson in the elevator that is spoon fed to you. At least in HL2, the story of the city was presented to you by character interactions, and propaganda...instead of signs that say "hey, use/watch this". But, as I said, the levels are pretty. Yet, the gameplay feels like a adventure game designed by throwing random ideas into a hat, and tries to fill in the holes with traditional FPS actions.
For those finished with the demo. Here are instructions on how to remove Sony's rootkit.
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6948
I think every studio / publisher could learn a lot from this.
If you were to say this game isn't scary, you're going to upset those who wet there pants playing this, as they most likely did the same for Doom3, or perhaps such horror classics as "I know what you did last summer", and all three "Scream" movies.
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I dunno, I'm not sure that mocking people that find it creepy and atmospheric is the way to substantiate your conclusion from the DEMO that the entire game isn't as good as Half Life2. Understand that what freaks people out can be entirely subjective. I have never been remotely disturbed by any kind of mainstream slasher horror movie, but sit me in front of some David Lynch like 'Eraserhead' and I'll feel distinctly unsettled. Bioshock just touches that nerve for me I suppose. Wheelchairs, plastic surgery, fairground attractions, whatever, it just creeps me the fuck out. It gets way darker beyond the demo. The demo didn't get to you, and you don't get it, that's a shame and I guess it's not for everyone. But, being condescending toward the folks that found it atmospheric is just nonsensical. I could talk about Half Life 2's atrocious boat levels, but I'm not going to get into HL2 versus Bioshock with anyone unless they've played both games, and not just the demos.
I was very disappointed at the 2 install thing especially, and this new system (5 & 5) is awesome. It keeps massive pirating via one CD key much harder, and it allows those who OWN the game, to not worry about a 2 install limit, which is important.
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How exactly does the system prevent mass piracy when it's already been cracked to be removed entirely and that crack will be distributed with every widely available pirated copy?
How does having 5 installs prevent you from casually giving it to your friends?
It's a stupid system that does absolutely nothing except annoy people. It does not stop serious pirates. It does not stop casual pirates. It makes 2K look terrible and by extension it hurts Irrational (hint: they're now "2K" as well). It messes around with people's systems. It makes people jump through hoops if they decide to try and get rid of it.
And most importantly, it assumes guilt. You know, there's this little thing called "Labeling Theory". If you treat someone like a criminal all the time no matter what they do, eventually they'll figure out that they might as well be one.
Even if you buy the game it's advisable to crack it just to protect your system and make it run better. How fucked up is that? How does this make 2K "look better"?
But, being condescending toward the folks... is just nonsensical.
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Kinda like being referred to as an ass, or a moron. I didn't want to post a review of this game, because I knew it would twist panties. My frustrations are towards the hype, the avalanche of fanboys that reinforced it, and the fact that giving in to the pressure led me to deal with some other hassle I'd rather not have to deal with on my system. Honestly, things like FOV, and number of installs are not a big deal to me. Not being able to remove intrusive and problematic software from Sony is. To me it's a decent game that tried to be clever. I'll stick with what works, and perhaps pick it up later to complete it when the wrinkles have been ironed out and the price on steam drops.
Fuck this is getting annoying listening to all you nancys bitch about this. Sure at first I was a little annoyed but when I thought about it I realized bitching about it is stupid.
Promoting piracy is just plain dumb. Even more so on this board where all of us are either making a living making this stuff or trying to.
Seems to me like it's just a giant fucking witch hunt and no matter what the hell 2k does you stupid bastards wont be happy. So fuck off I'm sick of hearing about how you don't like the install limits and fov limits and how your mommy and daddy didn't love you when you grew up.
Go bitch on gamespots forums with all the other 12 year olds.
But...If you want to compare this to half life 2 then you may be missing the point --this game is meant to pick up the slack that's been in the FPS genre for the last few years in regards to personalized character development and non-linear level design. You have to admit...HL2 sucked in both of those regards, but that's ok--it wasn't that kind of game. the fun of HL2 came from things OTHER than choosing which way to go and tailoring your character to your play style.
As for the doom 3 comparison, bioshock doesn't rely on the 'kill-the-lights-and-spawn-bad-guys' cheap shot as much as you seem to think. I think the demo gave the wrong impression of that.
As for your other random notes:
"Including the history lesson in the elevator that is spoon fed to you"--um, every FPS since half life 1 has relied on the scripted rails introduction. I personally thought this was a nice way to handle your first view of the city.
"the mysterious guy on the radio who gives you perfectly timed instructions (Farcry)" -that's a direct throwback to System Shock 2 and Deus EX. Farcry lifted it from them. So does Bioshock.
"the story of the city was presented to you by ...signs that say "hey, use/watch this". --that happens only in the demo, which is only the opening 20 minutes of the game. After the initial 'hey I'm a new user!' level the story is unvieled through voice recordings, scripted events, messages scrawled in blood, all sorts of stuff. They do a decent job varying it--just not in the demo.
"the gameplay feels like a adventure game designed by throwing random ideas into a hat," --yeah, I kind of agree with that..it worried me at first, but the further I get into the game the better they're tying things together. I'm impressed so far.
As for the 'avalanche of fanboys'--I think the people who have been waiting for another system shock 2 HAVE to be a bit vocal. The industry has taken more and more steps away from this style of involved gameplay and towards more twitch/arcade-y play-styles. If people aren't adamant, there's a good chance we won't see another game of this style in a long time.
I didn't want to post a review of this game, because I knew it would twist panties. My frustrations are towards the hype, the avalanche of fanboys that reinforced it
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Hah. You knew your "review" would twist panties? Exactly, that's why you posted it. Refer back to gauss's explanation of the difference between posting to express an opinion, versus posting for the sole purpose of provocation. You clearly went out of your way to 'twist panties' with a "review" (of the demo) of "bloated overhyped wankfest sack of bullshit"
The level of vitriol in your line about your frustrations with the popularity of the game are pretty telling. Without having played the *actual* game, the venom that you have for it smacks a little of going against the grain for the sake of it imo. Which is every bit as cheezy as being a fanboy If you ask me.
Meh, whatevers, it's a great achievement. If you don't give it a chance, that's really your loss.
Then again, your post wasn't really a sentence so I'm not sure if I entirely understand
Oh and I<ve been in the industry forever, and I still think that well, its Just games!
now BETTER!
Oh and I<ve been in the industry forever, and I still think that well, its Just games!
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Well obviously you are someone that doesn't really get into your job if that is how you feel. To most of us they aren't just games and that is the major problem we deal with when we talk to people about our jobs. Oh you play games or oh you make video games. Like it's some easy as pie, push a button and the computer does it all for us.
Way to go chief. I'm glad I don't work with you.
I mean it as Its not because someone say a game is Fucking AWSOME or a Fucking Turd, that this person is a Godamn asshat. It just a game, The different opinions we have about certain games doesnt justify what kind of person we are.
And just for the record, I wouldnt want to work with u aswell.
ben
b1ll, I think what jesse was saying is that, to a lot of us, thinking that its 'just games' is what's been keeping the medium from being taken as seriously as, say, something like provocative books or films are.
I dont know ...whenever I hear respected artform, it makes me cringe. I don't think game art needs to be valiated or accepted by any mainstream. Because who are these people that dictate what art is- the same people who call Paris Hilton an artist, or shit on a plate and call it a tulip. Game artists are the Rodney Dangerfield of the creative community ..the most you can really hope for is the respect and praise of your peers...an judging by this thread, even that can be a tough sell
AND for the record I didn't actually insult anyone in this thread.
I would like to see anyone try anyone call me an 'ass' in real life:)or even call me a snob:)
(see, the smiley face makes it ok)
Now whenever i make comments while playing games with my friends, they look at me like i'm a weirdo talking about 'what an amazing job the environment artist did'. or whatever.
Anyways back to Bioshock. So far I love it. There are a few issues here and there with some obvious mirroring and seams in textures but every game has that.
I decided to harvest the little sisters my first go around just to play with all the plasmids I can and get my handle on the game play.
It's awesome freezing people and then smashing them to bits or setting them on fire and then electrocuting them like everyone else mentioned.
(people will understand that comment more after they finish it)
That said, I've been watching the trailers for this game and hearing what the developers intended for it to be...Bioshock is a master class in creative direction. Might be the first hardcore game I pick up since my PlayStation 1 days!
For me personally, when you have a stake in a small company striving to make a success out of itself, you start to care about the game in its entirety, way beyond just the Art. And FUUUUCK, when you've worked at the behemoth that is Electronic Arts for as long as I have, where it is literally an uphill struggle making anything good because of all the tards, my god when you leave you leave with a ferocious hunger to make something you can actually be proud of
So yeah, I tend to think about games in their entirety, as entertainment, more than just their Art. Bioshock is an awesome artistic achievement as far as Im concerned, but its also a great game.
In any case, that's kinda beside the point. I don't actually give a crap about the Bioshock hatin', what irks me is it appears to largely be coming from people who haven't *actually* played the damn thing, but are just instantly turned off by its critical acclaim, and that seems like a shame to me.
Im not arguying that some game can be a great piece of art, or that U cant care about a game u have devoted shit loads of urself into, (been there done that,Thats why im freelance, and soon EXPANDING!).
I just feel that there is SOOOOOOo much hate regarding someone Opinion toward a fucking game,
In the end of the day, Its a game, Judging if im a douche or not because i played and didnt like the game or thought it was awsome, it just WTF for me,. Same if it was a movie or a fucking book.
If I read the first two chapters of a book, and it's doesn't interest me, I'm don't continue reading. If I test drive a vehicle, and it doesn't perform well, I don't buy the car and take it to the track. A demo should convince someone to play the full game, and for that it has failed. My opinion.
Same with WOW. A buddy gave me a trial account. I got on. Hmmm looks interesting...move around. I'm a noob. No one wants to hel me learn this game. I'm bored... Uninstall.
If I read the first two chapters of a book, and it's doesn't interest me, I'm don't continue reading.
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Difference here being I bet you don't log on to a novel-writer's forum and declare such-and-such book as being a "wankfest bag of bullshit" or whatever based on the synopsis of a chapter or two.
they smashed my hacked security camera and re-hacked my hacked turret!
There's no need for games to be taken more seriously, wtf... did people here start thinking they needed to be poltical activists because we have tossers like Thompson and co. damning them?
They're still just games and thats ok
All this want to make otheres like what we like the way we like it is ridiculous and high maintenance. Get a life before you start sounding like some poncy french libertine byron style stereotype's getting their pants in a twist over your
new deodorant bottle being a different colour... which will not stand!!!!
The Dude Abides.
Now I'm off to drink whisky some, I'll come back later and shout condescendingly at people for a while like i know better, seems to be the thing to do in this thread
r.
I really respect how someone got out the art deco books and stuck to them.
I bought the game the day before it came out, someone at toys r us didnt know better I guess.
r.
I think 2k deserves quite a bit of credit for inventing a world full of so much life and creativity. The voice acting is amazing and listening to all the audio logs always gives me an chilly feeling not to mention all the little details with the deco style they incorporated. It felt like a nightmare back in time. Overall though I think they've done such a good job in so many areas I'd hate to spoil it for the rest. The demo does so little justice for what the rest of the game has to offer. Hats off to 2k for allowing me to be drawn into a game world again since Half Life 2.
BTW taking your job serious is a good thing but at the same time it maybe whats slowly sucking the creative energy out of the games we play. Yes we make games, and they need to look good and be fun. But in order for them to be fun don't we need to have a bit of fun too?
I played the demo, i may buy it but at the rate i play games i might get 1/8th the way into it before halo 3 is out. Being a non hardcore gamer looking for great art is rather hard when all the big art quality titles are hardcore gamer titles.
also, joke's on you for taking b1ll seriously. his replies are considered and posted in the time it takes you to even open the thread, and by then he's long gone.
cause u know, when u mostly post one line crap< w/lots of typos and AOLese, u prbobly dont taek threads very srsly and thats cool.. we ned all kinds of ppl here,keeps thngs interestng~!1
just like we need unstable 'wegians in here pouring out sneering putdowns and near-dadaist humor mixed with equal parts genuine sentiment and helpful criticism,
just like we need grumbly scots to mention whiskey one out of every five posts and put a word in about how the kids need to settle down.
in summary, i love you all. and to paraphrase vonnegut--dammit babies, you've got to be kind.
back to playing Bioshock! or should i say, Bio-schlock. ZING!
If you dont have anything positiive to say dont say it you can crit the game but dont crit eachothers opinions.
back on topic:Spoiler dont read its not that big but im warning you anyways!!!!!!! dont read past this line..........
I love the fucking plot twist near the end!!!
This is one of the most hatefull thread i have read on these forums
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Shit dude, you must have missed some threads. This one looks tame from where I'm sitting.
edit your fucking post btw. Your spoiler 'warning' is feeble at best.
I would be interested in playing this, but with only a 6800gt and a 3200XP, it wont look or play that well since I would have to play it in widescreen. That and Im broke, and saving my pennies for UT3.
I'm not claiming ut is bad in any way, mind you, it's just that it's the twitchfest people claim Bioshock stands directly opposite to.
I cant remember the details but some SF employee posted wares links to SF forums to "make a point" how people wares games that doesnt use SF. Also there were reports about SF fucking peoples computers up and stuff like that and it was more of a torjan than legal software. BTW all those ill effects were avoided if you applied the cracked exe before launching the game, if i remember that way you could even skip the reboot that SF titles requiered.
Galaxtic Civilizations 2 sold a lot of copies and it didnt have any kind of copy protection, not even cd check i think.
DRM is waste of money and if done poorly gets lots of customers upset.
the game crashes a lot too , and i even got a blue screen, but the new drivers fixed it , all left is stop the crashings...
but not my cup of tea.
I dont have much cash but Im gonna be doing a dissertation on "emotions and computer games" and bioshock may just well give me the fps which shows the potential of emotions in the fps genre?
Doom 3 was pretty braindead when it came to emotions, it embued fear and perhaps anxiety and exhiliration when fighting. Alot of fps have followed the doom trend, is Bioshock any different?
Also Bioshock just looks freakin amazing in every way!
Additionaly you do to a degree become entwined in the world itself and the characters that inhabit it (both living and deceased). At no point did I have quite the level of lasting emotional horor that I got from System Shock 2, but there are definately elements of the horror that are psycological and will creep you out purely based on the recordings you can hear throughout the world, or the stories that the environment itself tells.
And then there are moments that will shock you in a totally different way. I'll also say that Bioshock is the only game I've ever played that made me jump on the second playthrough and managed to throw me a curve ball I never expected.
Fear, Anxiety, anger, exhilaration, empathy, disgust, shock, relief, self loathing, betrayed, awed, joyous and probably some other stuff I can't recal the words for (like that crawling knawing in the pit of your stomach when something is just too wrong to contemplate).
The last 25 minutes of gameplay suck monkey balls IMO - but the rest of the game is pretty damn great.
some pretty interesting, serious thematics run throughout the game ways you dont normally see in games. everything from political commentary to comments on art and aesthetics.
The plastic surgeon level, in general, is kind of creepy--partially because of how much we're on the track toward that sort of society/standards.
It definitely elicits more emotion than any other recent fps I can think of. I mean...fps's aren't known for anything other than fear/adrenaline/ and occasionally camaraderie.
The beginning felt like total recall of System Shock 2, I guess that's a good thing and a bad thing. But I only played System Shock 2 a couple years ago, so its still pretty fresh in my mind.
I find myself spending too much time peering through debries on the floor looking for first aid kits rather than looking at the gorgeous environment. And I find myself asking "Why am I doing this" through the demo alot. Like when you first find the shock bolt plasmids, and you just jabbed yourself with the syringe, without knowing what it is or what it will do. Then as you're going through the agony of transformation the guy explains to you over the radio, "everything will be fine". That's a little weird.