Im wondering, when he said the map for a level was 128k x 128k, does that mean just for the diffuse? Was there several more for the normal and spec and whatever?
[ QUOTE ]
In this work, we demonstrate a system that allows texture memory on multiple GPUs to
be virtualized in a manner that is both scalable and transparent to the programmer. Our
system is built using a directory-based shared memory abstraction to allow texture memory
to be distributed while staying consistent. We use texture pages as our basic memory block
and discuss the data structures, threading model, and consistency mechanisms necessary to
implement a paging system in a multi-GPU environment. The system is demand-driven,
and pages will only be loaded into the texture memory of a GPU that makes a request.
The main contribution of this work is the identification of the mechanisms required to
implement our abstraction, as well as the discussion of its limitations in order to make it
more efficient.
Not that I needed to be, but I'm completely sold on megatexture after watching those vids. The Art direction and overall feel is awesome. Kinda reminds me of the Rockfish short by Blur studios.
oh and sonic, dont forget youre looking at a movie of a screen. Any judgment of the color palette would seem somewhat premature under those circumstances.
but how do they stream all those textures without mip map popping? Seriously if mip mapping isn't an issue then I think this tech is likely to become adopted by lots of the industry.
spacemonkey, if you notice as soon as the game starts up on some of the demos there is this initial pop.i am assuming that the "mega" texture is mipping in some way. if you read the paper i linked to there are some clues into what is going here. only the area of the screen that is being drawn is being fetched from the texture. i am assuming mipping could work the same way, if the texture rez is 2k, but the texture is only taking up 400 pixels on screen, then thats what is being fetched and drawn. the closer to get to objects, obviously more of the texture is needed, but also the bigger the object will be not leaving much room for anything else on the screen.
i am assuming that mipping is done automatically, not separate files that the tech just mips at a distance. the distance probably is accountable for the region and resolution of the texture that is "fetched".
EPIC's UE3 does it 100 times better already apparently... JUST LOOK AT GEARS OF WAR!!!1
There's numerous moments through out the demonstrations that indicate mipping is taking place as well as model LOD. I'd love to see how Carmack figures out making the same thing true for geometry... Then again, I never envisioned something like this being possible :P
I'm totally sold on this tech, I think they under-estimate just what the mod community will be capable of when this game ships.
Quake Arena on idtech 5???
Can I get hired or sumthin?
Art direction/content looks amazing. Still seems like there would be a huge bottleneck in just shear asset creation, and detailing time as it seems every little bit has to be placed individually. Would be cool to see some more procedural/automated type placements systems, but maybe they have that sort of stuff too. The whole thing seems like its hugely dependant on video memory, which i'm still not sold on yet. You can only draw a frame using X number of megs of texture memory, so even if you can load 20 gigs at once, you're still restricted to using only a certain amount at a time. But i guess thats always going to be the problem, and this is more just to give more uniqueness to every little area. It will be interesting to see how actual running builds of the game look, on real systems, i have this nagging feeling that you'll have all this unique detail, but it will end up blurry as hell because of the nature of the tech. But maybe theres something fundamental i'm just not understanding here?
looks nice but i'm not really that interested since i won't be able to run it. still seems to have the 'hey look at me! i'm normal mapped!' look Doom3 had.
[ QUOTE ]
It will be interesting to see how actual running builds of the game look, on real systems, i have this nagging feeling that you'll have all this unique detail, but it will end up blurry as hell because of the nature of the tech. But maybe theres something fundamental i'm just not understanding here?
[/ QUOTE ]
If you zoom in it only fetches textures for very small area so it doesnt get blurry. Lets say you run a game at 1680x1050 resolution, well thats the maximum amount of texture visible... Now if you find a way to only load those pixels that are needed you only need like 5megs of texture memory in this example, thats less than two 1024x1024 textures..
Going with the same resolution mesh wise means that if you have 2 triangles per pixel (pixel is square, thats why it would be kinda ideal to have 2 tris per pixel) you need only 3,5million tris.
Ofcurse in real world you have to move data etc. so you have to "think ahead" or you will have caching issues.
Anyway i hope i made atleast some sense and that i dont have twisted view on that tech.
2 tris per pixel is not exactly ideal, unless you want pure vertexshading . I think the aim is to have less instanced but more unique mesh data. I wonder what kind of budgets games will have in the future if every corner is detailed, and honestly if that is really needed/worth it. However of course I think the editor and such is a blast and it's great that technology becomes less of a limit.
But it remembers me of playing the first PC Medal of Honor, the first time, there was a submarine you have to blow up, it was very detailed, lots of hi-res textures, lots of small detail objects, but in the whole game you are "inside" that sub a few seconds, placing a bomb and running out of it. Now taking the time it took to make that sub, compared to the cost/benefit for the player is certainly discussable. Then again from the whole game I memorized exactly this scene the most, so maybe the benefit was achieved.
Nevertheless compared to the film industry, having games run almost at the same quality (cept super finetuned animation), the costs will explode if giant worlds are handcrafted like that. Cause compared to a "shot-by-shot" in film, the players will demand relatively free-roaming... I do think that once geometry&texture are virtualized, the possibilities to generate a lot more content rule-based will kick in. you just dont want to place every bush by hand, you want to have some "natural like" vegetation, texture variance whatever... Like that vines generator, more from the offline-raytracers will get into games to lower workforce for those real true unique characters/buildings... Or it stays hand-crafted and the costs will explode probably both will happen hehe
Now that think about it again, reflectons and transparency really screw this thing up...
Btw did anyone see any transparent or reflective surfaces in that vid?? I cant remembr any.
Looks like the next Wolfenstein was announced, which is good cause now I can say that I've been the supervising artist for the multiplayer component of the game. The art team I'm 'supervising' is roughly 6 people, lots of fun. Awesome project. Etc.
"A lot of times, you know, people seem to forget that id invented the genre. That we made internet multiplayer action gaming popular with quake; and every time you pick up a shotgun in a first-person shooter-- regardless of what game you're playing-- and you shoot that, you should think about id because we were the first."
[/ QUOTE ]Don't they teach you kids Freudian psychology in school these days? Id is the self-centered aspect of the psyche. Super-ego is essentially the conscience. Ego balances between the two. If we're making jokes at their expense, I dare say they've chosen the best name for it.
[ QUOTE ]
Looks like the next Wolfenstein was announced
As far as I could tell in the videos wolfenstein is still idtech4 based but totally zuped up into raven's own lil thing.
With the huge influx of recent ignorant teenage/young-adult gamers brought with the new console generation, I'd be half tempted to skool these lil bitches about who and what id is too.
"A lot of times, you know, people seem to forget that id invented the genre. That we made internet multiplayer action gaming popular with quake; and every time you pick up a shotgun in a first-person shooter-- regardless of what game you're playing-- and you shoot that, you should think about id because we were the first."
[/ QUOTE ]
Hah, I was just about to quote that. Maaaan, whadda schmuck. Way to throw some irrelevant, awkward arrogance in there, Timmy!
edit: bah, and then he goes on to admit that making games is difficult and they're learning as they go? Come on Tim! Make it clear whether or not I'm allowed to hate you! You owe it to a fan!
[ QUOTE ]
Don't they teach you kids Freudian psychology in school these days? Id is the self-centered aspect of the psyche. Super-ego is essentially the conscience. Ego balances between the two. If we're making jokes at their expense, I dare say they've chosen the best name for it.
[/ QUOTE ]
: ) We save the accurate psychological descriptions for those nasty religion threads that pop up every now and then.
Corny and inaccurate puns are saved for threads about videogames.
Wolfenstein and a new iD game... So you *can* have your cake and eat it too.
Replies
that is what mega texturing is.
more info
http://www.idav.ucdavis.edu/publications/func/return_pdf?pub_id=908
[ QUOTE ]
In this work, we demonstrate a system that allows texture memory on multiple GPUs to
be virtualized in a manner that is both scalable and transparent to the programmer. Our
system is built using a directory-based shared memory abstraction to allow texture memory
to be distributed while staying consistent. We use texture pages as our basic memory block
and discuss the data structures, threading model, and consistency mechanisms necessary to
implement a paging system in a multi-GPU environment. The system is demand-driven,
and pages will only be loaded into the texture memory of a GPU that makes a request.
The main contribution of this work is the identification of the mechanisms required to
implement our abstraction, as well as the discussion of its limitations in order to make it
more efficient.
[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/driving/redline/index.html
http://www.fileshack.com/file.x/10930/Rage+FileShack+QuakeCon+2007+Walkthrough+-+Full
oh and sonic, dont forget youre looking at a movie of a screen. Any judgment of the color palette would seem somewhat premature under those circumstances.
i am assuming that mipping is done automatically, not separate files that the tech just mips at a distance. the distance probably is accountable for the region and resolution of the texture that is "fetched".
side note...
where did all the haters go?
EPIC's UE3 does it 100 times better already apparently... JUST LOOK AT GEARS OF WAR!!!1
There's numerous moments through out the demonstrations that indicate mipping is taking place as well as model LOD. I'd love to see how Carmack figures out making the same thing true for geometry... Then again, I never envisioned something like this being possible :P
I'm totally sold on this tech, I think they under-estimate just what the mod community will be capable of when this game ships.
Quake Arena on idtech 5???
Can I get hired or sumthin?
Quake Arena on idtech 5???
[/ QUOTE ]
Where did you get that part from?
QuakeZero seems to be actually a downgrade from Quake3 to make it run in a browser or something mysterious like that
[ QUOTE ]
Quake Arena on idtech 5???
[/ QUOTE ]
Where did you get that part from?
QuakeZero seems to be actually a downgrade from Quake3 to make it run in a browser or something mysterious like that
[/ QUOTE ]
It sounded like its Q3 running at 60hz instead of 30hz.
[ QUOTE ]
Quake Arena on idtech 5???
[/ QUOTE ]
Where did you get that part from?
QuakeZero seems to be actually a downgrade from Quake3 to make it run in a browser or something mysterious like that
[/ QUOTE ]
By the sound of it Carmack was talking as though there would be some fundamental improvements over Quake 3, rather than a downgrade.
I'm not talking about Quake Zero, Carmack clearly states that after Quake Zero, the 2nd team's project would "likely" be Quake Arena on idtech 5.
It will be interesting to see how actual running builds of the game look, on real systems, i have this nagging feeling that you'll have all this unique detail, but it will end up blurry as hell because of the nature of the tech. But maybe theres something fundamental i'm just not understanding here?
[/ QUOTE ]
If you zoom in it only fetches textures for very small area so it doesnt get blurry. Lets say you run a game at 1680x1050 resolution, well thats the maximum amount of texture visible... Now if you find a way to only load those pixels that are needed you only need like 5megs of texture memory in this example, thats less than two 1024x1024 textures..
Going with the same resolution mesh wise means that if you have 2 triangles per pixel (pixel is square, thats why it would be kinda ideal to have 2 tris per pixel) you need only 3,5million tris.
Ofcurse in real world you have to move data etc. so you have to "think ahead" or you will have caching issues.
Anyway i hope i made atleast some sense and that i dont have twisted view on that tech.
But it remembers me of playing the first PC Medal of Honor, the first time, there was a submarine you have to blow up, it was very detailed, lots of hi-res textures, lots of small detail objects, but in the whole game you are "inside" that sub a few seconds, placing a bomb and running out of it. Now taking the time it took to make that sub, compared to the cost/benefit for the player is certainly discussable. Then again from the whole game I memorized exactly this scene the most, so maybe the benefit was achieved.
Nevertheless compared to the film industry, having games run almost at the same quality (cept super finetuned animation), the costs will explode if giant worlds are handcrafted like that. Cause compared to a "shot-by-shot" in film, the players will demand relatively free-roaming... I do think that once geometry&texture are virtualized, the possibilities to generate a lot more content rule-based will kick in. you just dont want to place every bush by hand, you want to have some "natural like" vegetation, texture variance whatever... Like that vines generator, more from the offline-raytracers will get into games to lower workforce for those real true unique characters/buildings... Or it stays hand-crafted and the costs will explode
Btw did anyone see any transparent or reflective surfaces in that vid?? I cant remembr any.
http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200708/N07.0803.1731.12214.htm
S'all I can say tho
Story and setting interview.
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/23315.html
Story and setting interview.
[/ QUOTE ]
"A lot of times, you know, people seem to forget that id invented the genre. That we made internet multiplayer action gaming popular with quake; and every time you pick up a shotgun in a first-person shooter-- regardless of what game you're playing-- and you shoot that, you should think about id because we were the first."
Forget 'id', the company should be called ego
Forget 'id', the company should be called ego
[/ QUOTE ]
MOAR LIEK SUPEREGO
And awesome news Adam.
MOAR LIEK SUPEREGO
[/ QUOTE ]Don't they teach you kids Freudian psychology in school these days? Id is the self-centered aspect of the psyche. Super-ego is essentially the conscience. Ego balances between the two. If we're making jokes at their expense, I dare say they've chosen the best name for it.
[ QUOTE ]
Looks like the next Wolfenstein was announced
[/ QUOTE ]Which engine are they using for that?
Oh and nice work on the lead position
With the huge influx of recent ignorant teenage/young-adult gamers brought with the new console generation, I'd be half tempted to skool these lil bitches about who and what id is too.
[ QUOTE ]
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/23315.html
Story and setting interview.
[/ QUOTE ]
"A lot of times, you know, people seem to forget that id invented the genre. That we made internet multiplayer action gaming popular with quake; and every time you pick up a shotgun in a first-person shooter-- regardless of what game you're playing-- and you shoot that, you should think about id because we were the first."
[/ QUOTE ]
Hah, I was just about to quote that. Maaaan, whadda schmuck. Way to throw some irrelevant, awkward arrogance in there, Timmy!
edit: bah, and then he goes on to admit that making games is difficult and they're learning as they go? Come on Tim! Make it clear whether or not I'm allowed to hate you! You owe it to a fan!
Don't they teach you kids Freudian psychology in school these days? Id is the self-centered aspect of the psyche. Super-ego is essentially the conscience. Ego balances between the two. If we're making jokes at their expense, I dare say they've chosen the best name for it.
[/ QUOTE ]
: ) We save the accurate psychological descriptions for those nasty religion threads that pop up every now and then.
Corny and inaccurate puns are saved for threads about videogames.
Wolfenstein and a new iD game... So you *can* have your cake and eat it too.