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...But doing the same for here would probably keep a lot of people from ever joining...
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You say that as if it's a bad thing
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The truly bad posters that I've seen can be counted on one or two hands. Unless polycount quadruples overnight, I don't see the bad new posters outweighing the good new posters.
Polycount and other forums are pretty much where I learned and honed my skills, and I don't think excluding people from them would be good for the community.
to all those arguing on these forums, i have a hindi phrase for you:
"lagaan do apne zabaan ko"
literally, it means 'put a tax on ur words.'
And who likes paying taxes?
...
exactly... so please stop wasting ur energy on an ultimately inconclusive arguement over the internet where, for all we know, i could actually be rawkstar's alter-ego.
don't wanna sound irritating, but it justs hurts the image of polycount and its members when things like this happen. And cat-flinging, flaming trolls [hmm.... unit ideas for an RTS] can't win wars! [unless in an rts, lol]. come on guys, lets go back to acting like artists!
oh, and don't ask why i posted the hindi phrase.... just feeling a bit patriotic atm for some reason lol.
wanna know another phrase?
"akal ke dushman" = "enemy of intelligence" my personal favourite.
I think there's been a misconception here that the sentiment behind this thread intended to carry any kind of 'suggestion' or 'guidance' about how people conduct themselves. That's none of my business of course. Never at any point did I make any kind of suggestion as to how people should and shouldn't behave, but clearly online behaviour is not without ramification.
I had a nice week in Hawaii and break from the internets, had a quick peek at pc upon my return and promptly regretted it. The next morning I heard the NPR conversation. This thread was thinking out loud really, and it could just as well have been entitled "are people more cuntish now than they used to be? discuss". Clearly that's impossible to truly answer but it feels like its a silly notion upon reflection.
There does seem to be a sort of 'cool' factor associated with being overly blunt, direct and obnoxious online, and I absolutely DO NOT believe that people genuinely conduct themselves in real life in the same fashion that they do online. I think peoples online personalities are a sort of exaggerated, bolder, more confident, brash version of themselves. If they acted the same way in public as they do online, clearly we'd see anarchy every day and way more public fighting than is currently the case. Clearly there is some 'holding back' in real life. I don't know what that holding back is. Politeness, civility, or sheer consideration of real consequence, or none of the above. Road rage is probably the most obvious area of extreme public confrontation. That and a few bar fights, and other random but sporadic nasty incidents (like catching a thief stealing my motorbike) are the only times I've been in extremely confrontational situations in public as an adult. I suppose the laws in the real world that govern us, temper our true desires to punch the nearest bloke that dares to diss us, and the lack of laws or physical consequence of confrontation online, enable, and moreover tempt us to 'unleash' sooner If you will.
Its odd that never 'really' get angry on line, but am quite the angry type in real life( well only if I am really getting pissed with someone.
I am more of the per 128 type in real life ie I tend to speak my mind, but nothing i read online tends to get me 'that' hot under the collar.
talking about civility, if I ever pass some games artist/programmer in the corridor and he ignores me ever again , even after I have repeated the words , 'good morning' at least twice I am going to insert his head in to a blender.
heres another one to a level designer - can I use your bin please?
reply - 'its not 'MY' property, so i guess you can'
These kind of fuckers really make me want to go postal.
You've just given me an idea Ruz for how to verbalize what's been nagging away at me.
disclaimer: odium et al: please don't take this as another dishing out of abuse. Obviously you've taken plenty of flak on the topic of the other thread. I just thought this was a neat conundrum. I disagree with whoever posted above that this thread by its very nature has to turn to shit and don't see why it can't be discussed.
Scenario: ebagg and his friend Dave are having a night out celebrating ebaggs first shipped title. Two friends of Daves (but strangers to ebagg) come over and join the conversation in which ebagg excitedly tells of the games announcement.
Both of Daves two friends promptly state in response their unabashed 'true to themselves' no holds barred opinion on how totally and utterly shit the game is looking. Now, whilst there *are* people out there like that, this is an unlikely and rare scenario. Why? 1) Because ebagg might be 6' 4" and built like a quarterback but more likely 2) because everybody in the group understands from years of social interaction that such a response would fundamentally ruin the vibe, create either an escalating argument or an awkward tension that puts a downer on the whole evening and is just generally considered 'not cool'.
If we are for the most part in agreement that that's the case, what's different about online? Why does anonymity provide a different rule set? I think that's ultimately what interests me.
[ QUOTE ]
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The older I get the more I have come to realise that adults are simply big children. That is a scary thought.
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We can take this statement as a simple example, it is very easy to see this as an ignorant condescending remark, depending on the viewpoint of the reader. Very easy to read it as "you all are childish, except for me" One of the biggest problems with any sort of discusion on the internet is lack of knowing the proper tone. And when that fails, you think someone is taking a different tone then they really are and all hell breaks loose. I've litterally had to completely stop having any sort of serious conversation on the internet with my girlfriend due to this, its just sooooo easy for any little thing we say to turn into an arguement, but saying those same things in person, you actually get the tone of what they're saying and theres no arguement.
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What you say is true and I apologise if anyone was personally offended by my remark. It was simply an observation about society as a whole and not intended as an attack on posters in this thread.
I don't think he really thought you were being ignorant or condescending, his point was that comments can easily be taken out of context, and he was just using your comment as an example. Connotation is sometimes difficult to convey in text, which occasionally causes misinterpretations and misconceptions, and I think that was his point.
I was actually to mention the 'how tough do you look factor'
people tend to temper their insults according to who they fear in their little social hierarchy , but online everyone is anonymous more or less,so there is no fear of getting your head kicked in if you insult someone.
Having said that some folks are so dense/socially inadequate they don't even realise they are being offensive.
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.. I absolutely DO NOT believe that people genuinely conduct themselves in real life in the same fashion that they do online. I think peoples online personalities are a sort of exaggerated, bolder, more confident, brash version of themselves. If they acted the same way in public as they do online, clearly we'd see anarchy every day and way more public fighting than is currently the case. Clearly there is some 'holding back' in real life. I don't know what that holding back is. Politeness, civility, or sheer consideration of real consequence, or none of the above.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, that the internet does embolden us. Or more because of the lack of visual cues makes it easier to not see others as a fellow human and worthy of mutual respect. Your reasoning above though is why I still think trying to associate a online identity with a person should be held off until you meet the person in real life.
This is why I thought the blogger in the radio discussion was doing a great disservice by promoting online identity=real identity.
Strange, because me and a friend of mine have discussed this a lot lately.
I think that one deciding factor here is empathy is missing on the internet. I never say anything to intentionally hurt someone, but I've stuck my foot in my mouth countless times. In real life when I do - I can visually see that I've hurt the other person's feelings. It's all in real time. I now feel bad. I usually try to quickly dismiss my comment in hopes that I can say I was joking or some sort (usually failing). But the point is that I can visually see that I've caused grief to someone. And they can usually tell that I didn't mean it as well.
This is missing on the internet because I can firmly plant my foot in my mouth and have no clue that I did so. I can make a quick glib about something, leave the board and come back a day later only to find that I've somehow dissed someone. It's too late to make reparations - the damage has been done.
And a warning:
Sarcasm doesn't always work in type. A joke being read might not read like a joke.
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I still think trying to associate a online identity with a person should be held off until you meet the person in real life.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's a good point.
Are you sure that what she was really saying though, wasn't more like 'be careful how you act online, because it can reflect in your every day life'?
Funnily enough, yesterday a guy came in here for interview, and the first thing he said to me was 'you're Daz from polycount, right?' and before I figured out who he was, the first thing that entered my head was 'yikes, I hope I've never been a total douchebag to this guy?'
I post on some forums were people use their own names, and sure it does make a big difference to civility, but those places are rare and this is teh Intersnet. Generally treat everyone like a sex pest or paedophile and you'll only be wrong 1/6 of the time.
Yeah I know I have said some things that some people have found offensive but that was never my intentions. I think the major problem with forums is that people don't know the tone of the comments and a jokingly type comment can look very serious and offensive. Like my comment about I like to torture a cat from time to time. Some thought I was serious. Oh my god my wife would kill me if I were to ever do that.
I have met a few guys from Polycount and other threads at GDC, E3, etc and some guys I thought were dicks were cool as hell and they said the same about me.
I am still a very outspoken person when I meet people in person as well but I don't feel I am straight out offensive.
Daz made a good point though about having a guy from polycount saying hi while he was around for an interview and the first thing he thought was that he didn't act like a douche towards the guy. I have been there before.
I think we all put our foot in our mouths from time to time but it's how we go from there that makes us different. Some people will try and pull there foot out right away and come up with an excuse and some may chew on there toenails for a bit and ponder what to say next.... Which one are you?
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There does seem to be a sort of 'cool' factor associated with being overly blunt, direct and obnoxious online, and I absolutely DO NOT believe that people genuinely conduct themselves in real life in the same fashion that they do online
[/ QUOTE ]
ahh you haven't met me yet...
I think the internet is a terrible place to judge where humanity is going... i think that 90% of the incidents on this forum are born from missinterpretations and mean nothing.
Everything you type here will be perceived 10x as negative as it would be in real life since all you have is the crude text... sarcasm goes lost with any other humor and tone of voice and the worst... you can never explain what you really meant, never rectify yourself on the spot like in Real Life. You can never stop the fire in time in time.
Then there's cultural differences and age differences. While a 14 year old might be more respectful talking with a 40 year old in real life, online, unless you know better you'll assume that people are around your age and will adress them the same way you'd adress your pals... which might be either disrespectful to some or have you come over as a retard.
The interweb is one huge missunderstanding.
We all act a bit differently depending on our company, ladies, pals, work mates, room mates, elders, kids, inmates... an advantage we don't have online, we;re blind.
And while anonymity makes things easier I do think that anyone who acts like a fucktard online, is a fucktard in real life too, you can't have 2 really different prsonalities unless you have some personality disorder or in other words, you're a fucktard.
I completely agree with everything you've just said SF. It's all perfectly sound logic as to why the intramaweb is so rife with misunderstanding.
I hear your 'once a fucktard, always a fucktard' point too, but I can't *quite* get it to play nice with my little 'ebagg in the pub' anecdote, since I'm still not fully convinced that odium et al (fuck, I should just flat out ask you guys) would have pissed on a complete strangers 'first shipped title' fireworks in 'the flesh'. There is still something about being online (anonymity or no anonymity) that seems to boost fucktardedness to *extra* super duper fucktardedness imo.
I tend to look at my online persona as I do a game character. I can push it a little further than I might my squishy, sociopathic self. Similarly if it gets flamed I'm not inclined to care any more than if I caught a bullet in Quake or some such. Its nothing personal and theres no reason to get uppity, even if someone teabags you after. You just need to pop back up and keep running, perhaps with a witty rebuke if it'll make things more amusing.
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There is still something about being online (anonymity or no anonymity) that seems to boost fucktardedness to *extra* super duper fucktardedness imo.
[/ QUOTE ]
I really think it's just anonymity and what comes with it.
It's like wearing a mask as a criminal. It's not just to not be recognized, it also helps you get the feeling that you can do things and still 'keep your face'.
It will always be harder to rob and push around a friend no matter what, but given that online everybody is a stranger, and we're all wearing masks... it's easy to let the fucktard already in you take over.
Per, i think that thread is quite a classic example... and i was talking to this girl lately about what we liked to read... and she said she was currently reading some Dr. Phil books, to learn more about herself. My first thought was that if she was reading THAT, she probably really needed some kind of help ...Dr. Phil is probably less dangerous than the bible tho.
I think that another part of the problem here is (i'm sure you'll know about it Per) ...laziness!
Who wants to type and elaborate on everything...
Even tho we know that 'that looks like crap' on a forum like this equals a nuclear bomb that will nuke the thread, and what we really meant was 'hey, your stuff is the best in that game! blabla' ... we're all often just too lazy and accustomed to real life where situations don't derail as easily.
In a way, it's a good thing that we don't care that much about online stuff i guess.
Jackablade... the only reason you do that is because you're wearing a 'mask' here... or in your very specific case, your drag queen costume.
Good read SF & Daz. However, I know a few PC'ers who are just as they are on here as they are IRL. So the points you've made, I'd say, are subjective to the person and not to 'everyone'.
good discussion. Daz, i'm taking membership for the gauss league of zen calm (GLZC), but it'll run you 15 dollars a month. it's like world of warcraft, just no PvP and slightly fewer orcs.
here's a question, if we're pondering the efficacy of communication over the internet: why emoticons? more specifically, why now?
if pure text makes it so very difficult to convey emotion and subtlety, wouldn't we have developed emoticons, or something like them potentially hundreds of years ago? given that we as a species have been expressing ourselves through text for a very long time now: through personal letters, through articles, through books of all kinds.
yet only very, very recently have emoticons entered into the equation. i think this is because most people treat emails, text messages, and forum posts as transcribed speech, not concentrating on what is a long and venerable tradition of human expression.
from the perspective of a writer, you've got nearly everything at your command; but if you treat it as a speaker, which most people do use the internet conversationally, only then do you suddenly feel the need to resort to odd bits of anthropomorphized punctuation to convey your feelings.
fuck you and die. fuck you and die! (see what i did there)
but the conventions are flawed. i agree with many here, the emotive depth of internet-talk is deficient, but again, i think that's really only because people treat it like talk and not written language.
for those of you having trouble conveying sufficient sarcasm: i submit that there were many people of his day (and many of our own) that need help realizing that Jonathan Swift's 'A Modest Proposal' is a scathing piece of satire. A document so famously sarcastic it practically burns, and there are still some people who don't get it.
so hey, if a great author whose wit is remembered centuries after his death has people not getting it, you better believe you'll have the same trouble, and more often. that's just the price for the employment of sarcasm, choose carefully.
as to the general subject of behaving badly on the internet, and particularly in this forum: yes, it is you. it's disconnected from the 'real' you, but it's still you that's typing 'stfu cockfag' and clicking reply. SF is very right about this--it's a masquerade, and some people more than others are taking advantage of wearing a mask.
i think of 'gauss' as a kind of alter ego in some ways, yes, but in other ways its a very true expression of me, truer in some ways than meeting me in person would be.
many of you have talked about that oh so curious feeling of meeting someone in the flesh after having known them/conversed with them over the internet. i've had the experience a number of times, especially during my travels, and its always a little odd, because in some ways you're getting to know a person from the inside out. forming a picture of a person in almost exactly the opposite way than we do normally.
psychologists tell us that within the first few seconds or so of meeting someone, we've already come to a host of conclusions about them: their station in life, their bearing, sense of humor, whether we're attracted to them, etc. etc. on the internet, most of that is completely different... but not entirely; first impressions still apply.
i've already had this discussion with many of you, but i maintain my perspective on this issue: if you insist that you're "different in real life," or persist in qualifying away some consistently bad posts you've made, you're probably a jerk. not like 100% complete jerk or anything, and probably a lot better in person, but you're still probably a jerk. but jerks aren't bad people, jerks are just a mass of insecurities overriding what is otherwise a nice person. especially the guys that act like the biggest dick-swingers on the internet--they're the ones that tend to be the most repressed and neurotic in person. actually talented, or impressive or what have you tend to be the most mild and, yes, polite.
that's case one, in my experience the other case for people acting like a jerk on the internet but maybe/probably being a good guy in real life is the case of early internet socialization, which i fear will become more and more of an issue. case in point: my friend Earthquake, posting right in this thread, whom i now work with on a daily basis. he's sitting in the next room as i type this, in fact. i've known EQ for six (!) years now, but i've not always held the highest opinion of him, since i first came in contact with him online when he was 14 or so. and he's been online ever since, with a significant portion of his internet habits carrying over from that period. granted, i've been on the internet from roughly the same age, but not on IRC and shit like 4chan that whole time, which is increasingly the case with 'kids these days' (oh yes, i went there).
anyway, point of this story is that i finally came to visit EQ in person and check out his company, which turned out to be really cool and now i'm into my third week after having joined the company, and EQ is a cool guy to know. Joe is a cool guy to know, i should say, EQ can still be a pain in the ass for gauss, the moderator, since EQ doesn't always behave that well.
so in summary of a classic over-long gauss post, if you act like a jerk on polycount it probably means:
1.)you somehow discount internet as not being 'real', when it is all too real, as people in the industry will attest, or
2.)you are insecure to some degree (as we all are), but end up focusing the insecurities and probably a little too much free time on posting on the internet, or
3.)you're a kid on the internet, or used to be a kid on the internet so you still basically act like a 13 year old. for further information on this, see threads started by 13 year olds, and all the people who act all shitty toward him. those people.
Gauss, great read, thanks for posting. But I have to let my inner 13yr old out.
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Per128 wrote:
Me and Joe are like the all-American heroes; Foul-mouthed ruffians who may act brash and inconsiderate, but you know we save the day in the end. Oh and we're absolutely needed lest the boards become just a huge collection of Urkels and Dexters. We're like Rambo, or John McClane, or TANGO AND CASH
[/ QUOTE ]
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jerk in YOUR eyes!
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I hear they have a special eye wash kit for that...
A rumor ? i'm so Per... where you so drunk that you don't even remember how much fun we had in my basement ?
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here's a question, if we're pondering the efficacy of communication over the internet: why emoticons? more specifically, why now?
if pure text makes it so very difficult to convey emotion and subtlety, wouldn't we have developed emoticons, or something like them potentially hundreds of years ago? given that we as a species have been expressing ourselves through text for a very long time now: through personal letters, through articles, through books of all kinds.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dear Gauss and respected Polycounters.
I think it's just a natural evolution of the written word. Casual writing got probably the biggest push ever with the internet.
While it was okay for our grand grand parents to sit down for an hour expressing their deepest feelings in a letter in written form once a month, the internet moves a lot faster. With millions of people typing like crazy everyday it was bound to make an evolutionary jump.
It's probably far from 'done' too, I predict that in 27 years we'll all be writing here in egypt hieroglyphs again ...or in hieroticons.
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Most of us would have been better off having a wank rather than trying to settle whatever it is we think we are settling in this thread.
[/ QUOTE ]
Good point mate. Although, you're a family man. I'm finding that in a relationship, discreet wanking time is very hard to 'come by' under the circumstances. Any tips?
Replies
...But doing the same for here would probably keep a lot of people from ever joining...
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You say that as if it's a bad thing
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...But doing the same for here would probably keep a lot of people from ever joining...
[/ QUOTE ]
You say that as if it's a bad thing
[/ QUOTE ]
The truly bad posters that I've seen can be counted on one or two hands. Unless polycount quadruples overnight, I don't see the bad new posters outweighing the good new posters.
Polycount and other forums are pretty much where I learned and honed my skills, and I don't think excluding people from them would be good for the community.
"lagaan do apne zabaan ko"
literally, it means 'put a tax on ur words.'
And who likes paying taxes?
...
exactly... so please stop wasting ur energy on an ultimately inconclusive arguement over the internet where, for all we know, i could actually be rawkstar's alter-ego.
don't wanna sound irritating, but it justs hurts the image of polycount and its members when things like this happen. And cat-flinging, flaming trolls [hmm.... unit ideas for an RTS] can't win wars! [unless in an rts, lol]. come on guys, lets go back to acting like artists!
oh, and don't ask why i posted the hindi phrase.... just feeling a bit patriotic atm for some reason lol.
wanna know another phrase?
"akal ke dushman" = "enemy of intelligence" my personal favourite.
peace!
I had a nice week in Hawaii and break from the internets, had a quick peek at pc upon my return and promptly regretted it. The next morning I heard the NPR conversation. This thread was thinking out loud really, and it could just as well have been entitled "are people more cuntish now than they used to be? discuss". Clearly that's impossible to truly answer but it feels like its a silly notion upon reflection.
There does seem to be a sort of 'cool' factor associated with being overly blunt, direct and obnoxious online, and I absolutely DO NOT believe that people genuinely conduct themselves in real life in the same fashion that they do online. I think peoples online personalities are a sort of exaggerated, bolder, more confident, brash version of themselves. If they acted the same way in public as they do online, clearly we'd see anarchy every day and way more public fighting than is currently the case. Clearly there is some 'holding back' in real life. I don't know what that holding back is. Politeness, civility, or sheer consideration of real consequence, or none of the above. Road rage is probably the most obvious area of extreme public confrontation. That and a few bar fights, and other random but sporadic nasty incidents (like catching a thief stealing my motorbike) are the only times I've been in extremely confrontational situations in public as an adult. I suppose the laws in the real world that govern us, temper our true desires to punch the nearest bloke that dares to diss us, and the lack of laws or physical consequence of confrontation online, enable, and moreover tempt us to 'unleash' sooner If you will.
Just a theory.
I am more of the per 128 type in real life ie I tend to speak my mind, but nothing i read online tends to get me 'that' hot under the collar.
talking about civility, if I ever pass some games artist/programmer in the corridor and he ignores me ever again , even after I have repeated the words , 'good morning' at least twice I am going to insert his head in to a blender.
heres another one to a level designer - can I use your bin please?
reply - 'its not 'MY' property, so i guess you can'
These kind of fuckers really make me want to go postal.
disclaimer: odium et al: please don't take this as another dishing out of abuse. Obviously you've taken plenty of flak on the topic of the other thread. I just thought this was a neat conundrum. I disagree with whoever posted above that this thread by its very nature has to turn to shit and don't see why it can't be discussed.
Scenario: ebagg and his friend Dave are having a night out celebrating ebaggs first shipped title. Two friends of Daves (but strangers to ebagg) come over and join the conversation in which ebagg excitedly tells of the games announcement.
Both of Daves two friends promptly state in response their unabashed 'true to themselves' no holds barred opinion on how totally and utterly shit the game is looking. Now, whilst there *are* people out there like that, this is an unlikely and rare scenario. Why? 1) Because ebagg might be 6' 4" and built like a quarterback but more likely 2) because everybody in the group understands from years of social interaction that such a response would fundamentally ruin the vibe, create either an escalating argument or an awkward tension that puts a downer on the whole evening and is just generally considered 'not cool'.
If we are for the most part in agreement that that's the case, what's different about online? Why does anonymity provide a different rule set? I think that's ultimately what interests me.
[ QUOTE ]
The older I get the more I have come to realise that adults are simply big children. That is a scary thought.
[/ QUOTE ]
We can take this statement as a simple example, it is very easy to see this as an ignorant condescending remark, depending on the viewpoint of the reader. Very easy to read it as "you all are childish, except for me" One of the biggest problems with any sort of discusion on the internet is lack of knowing the proper tone. And when that fails, you think someone is taking a different tone then they really are and all hell breaks loose. I've litterally had to completely stop having any sort of serious conversation on the internet with my girlfriend due to this, its just sooooo easy for any little thing we say to turn into an arguement, but saying those same things in person, you actually get the tone of what they're saying and theres no arguement.
[/ QUOTE ]
What you say is true and I apologise if anyone was personally offended by my remark. It was simply an observation about society as a whole and not intended as an attack on posters in this thread.
[edit] btw, I love that one Lupus
people tend to temper their insults according to who they fear in their little social hierarchy , but online everyone is anonymous more or less,so there is no fear of getting your head kicked in if you insult someone.
Having said that some folks are so dense/socially inadequate they don't even realise they are being offensive.
.. I absolutely DO NOT believe that people genuinely conduct themselves in real life in the same fashion that they do online. I think peoples online personalities are a sort of exaggerated, bolder, more confident, brash version of themselves. If they acted the same way in public as they do online, clearly we'd see anarchy every day and way more public fighting than is currently the case. Clearly there is some 'holding back' in real life. I don't know what that holding back is. Politeness, civility, or sheer consideration of real consequence, or none of the above.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, that the internet does embolden us. Or more because of the lack of visual cues makes it easier to not see others as a fellow human and worthy of mutual respect. Your reasoning above though is why I still think trying to associate a online identity with a person should be held off until you meet the person in real life.
This is why I thought the blogger in the radio discussion was doing a great disservice by promoting online identity=real identity.
I think that one deciding factor here is empathy is missing on the internet. I never say anything to intentionally hurt someone, but I've stuck my foot in my mouth countless times. In real life when I do - I can visually see that I've hurt the other person's feelings. It's all in real time. I now feel bad. I usually try to quickly dismiss my comment in hopes that I can say I was joking or some sort (usually failing). But the point is that I can visually see that I've caused grief to someone. And they can usually tell that I didn't mean it as well.
This is missing on the internet because I can firmly plant my foot in my mouth and have no clue that I did so. I can make a quick glib about something, leave the board and come back a day later only to find that I've somehow dissed someone. It's too late to make reparations - the damage has been done.
And a warning:
Sarcasm doesn't always work in type. A joke being read might not read like a joke.
I still think trying to associate a online identity with a person should be held off until you meet the person in real life.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's a good point.
Are you sure that what she was really saying though, wasn't more like 'be careful how you act online, because it can reflect in your every day life'?
Funnily enough, yesterday a guy came in here for interview, and the first thing he said to me was 'you're Daz from polycount, right?' and before I figured out who he was, the first thing that entered my head was 'yikes, I hope I've never been a total douchebag to this guy?'
I kid, I love you'se internets peoples really!
I have met a few guys from Polycount and other threads at GDC, E3, etc and some guys I thought were dicks were cool as hell and they said the same about me.
I am still a very outspoken person when I meet people in person as well but I don't feel I am straight out offensive.
Daz made a good point though about having a guy from polycount saying hi while he was around for an interview and the first thing he thought was that he didn't act like a douche towards the guy. I have been there before.
I think we all put our foot in our mouths from time to time but it's how we go from there that makes us different. Some people will try and pull there foot out right away and come up with an excuse and some may chew on there toenails for a bit and ponder what to say next.... Which one are you?
There does seem to be a sort of 'cool' factor associated with being overly blunt, direct and obnoxious online, and I absolutely DO NOT believe that people genuinely conduct themselves in real life in the same fashion that they do online
[/ QUOTE ]
ahh you haven't met me yet...
I think the internet is a terrible place to judge where humanity is going... i think that 90% of the incidents on this forum are born from missinterpretations and mean nothing.
Everything you type here will be perceived 10x as negative as it would be in real life since all you have is the crude text... sarcasm goes lost with any other humor and tone of voice and the worst... you can never explain what you really meant, never rectify yourself on the spot like in Real Life. You can never stop the fire in time in time.
Then there's cultural differences and age differences. While a 14 year old might be more respectful talking with a 40 year old in real life, online, unless you know better you'll assume that people are around your age and will adress them the same way you'd adress your pals... which might be either disrespectful to some or have you come over as a retard.
The interweb is one huge missunderstanding.
We all act a bit differently depending on our company, ladies, pals, work mates, room mates, elders, kids, inmates... an advantage we don't have online, we;re blind.
And while anonymity makes things easier I do think that anyone who acts like a fucktard online, is a fucktard in real life too, you can't have 2 really different prsonalities unless you have some personality disorder or in other words, you're a fucktard.
I hear your 'once a fucktard, always a fucktard' point too, but I can't *quite* get it to play nice with my little 'ebagg in the pub' anecdote, since I'm still not fully convinced that odium et al (fuck, I should just flat out ask you guys) would have pissed on a complete strangers 'first shipped title' fireworks in 'the flesh'. There is still something about being online (anonymity or no anonymity) that seems to boost fucktardedness to *extra* super duper fucktardedness imo.
Its all a game, kids. Why not play nice, eh?
There is still something about being online (anonymity or no anonymity) that seems to boost fucktardedness to *extra* super duper fucktardedness imo.
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I really think it's just anonymity and what comes with it.
It's like wearing a mask as a criminal. It's not just to not be recognized, it also helps you get the feeling that you can do things and still 'keep your face'.
It will always be harder to rob and push around a friend no matter what, but given that online everybody is a stranger, and we're all wearing masks... it's easy to let the fucktard already in you take over.
Per, i think that thread is quite a classic example... and i was talking to this girl lately about what we liked to read... and she said she was currently reading some Dr. Phil books, to learn more about herself. My first thought was that if she was reading THAT, she probably really needed some kind of help ...Dr. Phil is probably less dangerous than the bible tho.
I think that another part of the problem here is (i'm sure you'll know about it Per) ...laziness!
Who wants to type and elaborate on everything...
Even tho we know that 'that looks like crap' on a forum like this equals a nuclear bomb that will nuke the thread, and what we really meant was 'hey, your stuff is the best in that game! blabla' ... we're all often just too lazy and accustomed to real life where situations don't derail as easily.
In a way, it's a good thing that we don't care that much about online stuff i guess.
Jackablade... the only reason you do that is because you're wearing a 'mask' here... or in your very specific case, your drag queen costume.
Good stuff, keep it comin'.
here's a question, if we're pondering the efficacy of communication over the internet: why emoticons? more specifically, why now?
if pure text makes it so very difficult to convey emotion and subtlety, wouldn't we have developed emoticons, or something like them potentially hundreds of years ago? given that we as a species have been expressing ourselves through text for a very long time now: through personal letters, through articles, through books of all kinds.
yet only very, very recently have emoticons entered into the equation. i think this is because most people treat emails, text messages, and forum posts as transcribed speech, not concentrating on what is a long and venerable tradition of human expression.
from the perspective of a writer, you've got nearly everything at your command; but if you treat it as a speaker, which most people do use the internet conversationally, only then do you suddenly feel the need to resort to odd bits of anthropomorphized punctuation to convey your feelings.
fuck you and die. fuck you and die!
but the conventions are flawed. i agree with many here, the emotive depth of internet-talk is deficient, but again, i think that's really only because people treat it like talk and not written language.
for those of you having trouble conveying sufficient sarcasm: i submit that there were many people of his day (and many of our own) that need help realizing that Jonathan Swift's 'A Modest Proposal' is a scathing piece of satire. A document so famously sarcastic it practically burns, and there are still some people who don't get it.
so hey, if a great author whose wit is remembered centuries after his death has people not getting it, you better believe you'll have the same trouble, and more often. that's just the price for the employment of sarcasm, choose carefully.
as to the general subject of behaving badly on the internet, and particularly in this forum: yes, it is you. it's disconnected from the 'real' you, but it's still you that's typing 'stfu cockfag' and clicking reply. SF is very right about this--it's a masquerade, and some people more than others are taking advantage of wearing a mask.
i think of 'gauss' as a kind of alter ego in some ways, yes, but in other ways its a very true expression of me, truer in some ways than meeting me in person would be.
many of you have talked about that oh so curious feeling of meeting someone in the flesh after having known them/conversed with them over the internet. i've had the experience a number of times, especially during my travels, and its always a little odd, because in some ways you're getting to know a person from the inside out. forming a picture of a person in almost exactly the opposite way than we do normally.
psychologists tell us that within the first few seconds or so of meeting someone, we've already come to a host of conclusions about them: their station in life, their bearing, sense of humor, whether we're attracted to them, etc. etc. on the internet, most of that is completely different... but not entirely; first impressions still apply.
i've already had this discussion with many of you, but i maintain my perspective on this issue: if you insist that you're "different in real life," or persist in qualifying away some consistently bad posts you've made, you're probably a jerk. not like 100% complete jerk or anything, and probably a lot better in person, but you're still probably a jerk. but jerks aren't bad people, jerks are just a mass of insecurities overriding what is otherwise a nice person.
especially the guys that act like the biggest dick-swingers on the internet--they're the ones that tend to be the most repressed and neurotic in person. actually talented, or impressive or what have you tend to be the most mild and, yes, polite.
that's case one, in my experience the other case for people acting like a jerk on the internet but maybe/probably being a good guy in real life is the case of early internet socialization, which i fear will become more and more of an issue. case in point: my friend Earthquake, posting right in this thread, whom i now work with on a daily basis. he's sitting in the next room as i type this, in fact. i've known EQ for six (!) years now, but i've not always held the highest opinion of him, since i first came in contact with him online when he was 14 or so. and he's been online ever since, with a significant portion of his internet habits carrying over from that period. granted, i've been on the internet from roughly the same age, but not on IRC and shit like 4chan that whole time, which is increasingly the case with 'kids these days' (oh yes, i went there).
anyway, point of this story is that i finally came to visit EQ in person and check out his company, which turned out to be really cool and now i'm into my third week after having joined the company, and EQ is a cool guy to know. Joe is a cool guy to know, i should say, EQ can still be a pain in the ass for gauss, the moderator, since EQ doesn't always behave that well.
so in summary of a classic over-long gauss post, if you act like a jerk on polycount it probably means:
1.)you somehow discount internet as not being 'real', when it is all too real, as people in the industry will attest, or
2.)you are insecure to some degree (as we all are), but end up focusing the insecurities and probably a little too much free time on posting on the internet, or
3.)you're a kid on the internet, or used to be a kid on the internet so you still basically act like a 13 year old. for further information on this, see threads started by 13 year olds, and all the people who act all shitty toward him. those people.
Nice read Gauss. Long but nice.
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Per128 wrote:
Me and Joe are like the all-American heroes; Foul-mouthed ruffians who may act brash and inconsiderate, but you know we save the day in the end. Oh and we're absolutely needed lest the boards become just a huge collection of Urkels and Dexters. We're like Rambo, or John McClane, or TANGO AND CASH
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jerk in YOUR eyes!
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I hear they have a special eye wash kit for that...
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here's a question, if we're pondering the efficacy of communication over the internet: why emoticons? more specifically, why now?
if pure text makes it so very difficult to convey emotion and subtlety, wouldn't we have developed emoticons, or something like them potentially hundreds of years ago? given that we as a species have been expressing ourselves through text for a very long time now: through personal letters, through articles, through books of all kinds.
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Dear Gauss and respected Polycounters.
I think it's just a natural evolution of the written word. Casual writing got probably the biggest push ever with the internet.
While it was okay for our grand grand parents to sit down for an hour expressing their deepest feelings in a letter in written form once a month, the internet moves a lot faster. With millions of people typing like crazy everyday it was bound to make an evolutionary jump.
It's probably far from 'done' too, I predict that in 27 years we'll all be writing here in egypt hieroglyphs again ...or in hieroticons.
I predict that in 27 years we'll all be writing here in egypt hieroglyphs again ...or in hieroticons.
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1 d0UB7 7|-|@7 \/\/1LL 3\/3r |-|4PP3|\|
http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2004/20040621h.jpg
1 d0UB7 7|-|@7 \/\/1LL 3\/3r |-|4PP3|\|
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Why was I able to understand that at a glance?
Most of us would have been better off having a wank rather than trying to settle whatever it is we think we are settling in this thread.
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Or a few stiff drinks. *downs grey goose and oj*
Most of us would have been better off having a wank rather than trying to settle whatever it is we think we are settling in this thread.
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Perfect example, Rorshach may be a big ol' pussycat in real life.
Most of us would have been better off having a wank rather than trying to settle whatever it is we think we are settling in this thread.
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Good point mate. Although, you're a family man. I'm finding that in a relationship, discreet wanking time is very hard to 'come by' under the circumstances. Any tips?