The differences have fuck all to do with it, they're equally unproven. People blame video games for bad behavior more often than they blame steroids for bad behavior, and with just as little proof. This forum is filled with people who know about games, and so they recognize claims that video games cause people to commit murder to be horseshit. I'm someone who also knows about anabolic steroids, and I know that there's just as little evidence that they cause people to commit murder as video games.
I aint gonna pin steroids on Benoits case at all, I aint investigating this murder so I don't have a clue.
But I know damn well my Dad was a complete fuckin asshole on steroids.
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The differences have fuck all to do with it, they're equally unproven. People blame video games for bad behavior more often than they blame steroids for bad behavior, and with just as little proof. This forum is filled with people who know about games, and so they recognize claims that video games cause people to commit murder to be horseshit. I'm someone who also knows about anabolic steroids, and I know that there's just as little evidence that they cause people to commit murder as video games.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just wanna clarify. Are you saying that steroids don't mess with a person's mood at all? That its just an urban myth?
he prolly had a small penis and was tired of his wife telling him about it. So he wacked her. I can't explain the kid tho, hard to see what a 7 y/old could do. Unless of course he was a witness. I doubt steroids anything to do with it, its just 1 of the bazillion causes possible for the incident.
Anytime a muscle head does something wrong, they blame sports and drugs. Anytime some nerd does something wrong, jack thompson blames anything connected to digital media and entertainment.
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tell me why steroids [...] should be viewed differently.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The differences have fuck all to do with it
[/ QUOTE ]
You've got to be fucking kidding me, Verm. You ask why the two should be viewed differently, and then you say the differences have "fuck all" to do with it? You're defeating your own argument.
The differences have everything to do with it. Unlike video games, anabolic steroids have a DIRECT effect on the physiology of the body, including hormone levels which influence brain chemistry. All of these things (physical stress, hormones, brain chemistry) play a large role in human behavior. To liken the persecution of steroid use to the persecution of video games is bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit.
Again, sorry to be contributing to the derailment of your thread Adam... this'll be my last post here. I think this conversation should be taken to PMs if anyone is still interested in carrying it on.
I agree with Verm to a point here. Roids are not going to make you kill someone. Hell a roid, whiskey , and cocaine cocktail wont make you kill your wife either.
[ QUOTE ]
Just wanna clarify. Are you saying that steroids don't mess with a person's mood at all? That its just an urban myth?
[/ QUOTE ]
No, I'm saying that steroids don't compel anyone to commit murder. It's a correlation-causation thing.
Really, consider who might be seriously using steroids. It's not laid-back hippie types, right? It's innately aggressive and hyper-competitive males, often athletes or similar performers, who have a fanatical interest in physical strength. They're willing to break the law and risk long-term health problems just to be more dominant. They have that attitude *before* they get hooked on the drugs, which is exactly why they get hooked on the drugs.
Consider a guy who is just a demon in the gym, an absolute hardass who pounds out rep after rep after rep just to be even more powerful or physically impressive than he already is. Is it hard to imagine a guy that aggressive and driven is already capable of violence? Does it really take a hormone boost to make him dangerous?
You don't take steroids because you want to add a few yards to your golf swing or improve your performance in weekend tennis. You take steroids because you want to be a strong motherfucker, and you are willing to take significant risks to do it.
Remember that Chris Benoit's entire career has been based around fighting. He was involved in wrestling since he was a teenager, more than half his life spent delivering bodyslams and piledrivers. I don't think he needed steroids to be a violent individual.
This is a bit of a tangent, but also consider some information on the crime. Strangling the wife? Okay, I'll call that an act of "rage." Maybe she overcooked the roast and he just flipped out. But smothering his kid, in the kid's bed? That's not a moment of sudden anger, flying off the handle - that's deliberate murder. He had to go from whatever room he killed his wife in, head upstairs to the bedroom and then intentionally smother his child. That's not a moment of anger, that's serious psychopathic behavior.
Here's a wild theory. What if the kid wasn't really his? The misses got knocked-up by someone else and came clean, then got done in. Even with this theory, its hard for me to understand how or why he would kill the little boy. He must have went batshit insane.
After having my recent episode with steroids ( prescribed to help me with a allegry attack ) I have to say that steroids did cause me some serious pain and problems. I didn't want to commit murder, but to compare durgs to video games are like comparing an apple to the empire state building. As a drug can effect physical change in someone, where video games can mainly give you cramped hands ( trying to corrospond a physical pain:)) This guy most assuredly had something mentally wrong with him, and with or without steroids he was going to trigger. Just wanted to help seperate the argument that drugs are equal to videogames.
Spark
P.S: And Verm, you were starting to sound like a pusher there for a second:) Dude! my roids are like skittles..full of rainbows:P hahah jk
It's been reported that there is a history of domestic violence between the two and she asked for a divorce once in the past and he made threats. She dropped the claim and they stayed together. It's possible she asked for another one or she was going to leave him and he thought he would stop her.
It's not something that can easily be explained. He is obviously a guy with some serious issues and taking any drugs, or even drinking for that matter can make someone become more depressed and do things that they may later regret. I think he did it so he wouldn't lose his family. Why else would he put a bible next to his sons body? He killed his wife and probably thought all was lost so he killed his son and then the next day or day after hung himself.
He did it in his gym though so that must have been a really special place to him since a lot of people will commit suicide in places they hold dear.
No matter what the cause it is sad that it had to end this way.
this is like someone gets shot and everyone is trying to find the guilty instead of helping the poor bastard ( except that the poor bastard is dead ha har...)
It gets even weirder. Just read this article from the AP:
"ATLANTA -- Pro wrestler Chris Benoit strangled his wife, suffocated his 7-year-old son and placed a Bible next to their bodies before hanging himself by the pulley of a weightlifting machine, authorities said Tuesday."
I don't know how much steroids affect your mood, but I'm pretty sure they don't make you place Bibles next to the corpses of family members you've just murdered. Benoit was a seriously fucked up individual. I think that the 'investigators' who are looking for a link to steroids are similar to the ones looking for a link to video games in the VT massacre. Loner shoots up his school? Must be video games. Pro athlete murders his family? Must be steroids.
This is the objection I had with Jesse's post to start with. We at Polycount don't like it when people automatically assume video games make people into killers. Since we know how the news media exaggerates that, we shouldn't automatically assume steroids are to blame here. Both are convenient excuses for evil behavior. We deny the one that pertains to us, we shouldn't be so ready to accept another when the evidence is no more solid.
so far this is all a good plot to a tv drama where we all dog benoit and try to solve what happened and then someone pops in and says they have a time machine. A team is formed to go back and do quantam leap wonders and fix the problem.
a lot of my friends are backing the guy up, mainly based on his tv personality, but really the guy coulda been an ass in real life.
wow thats just insane to back this guy up. That's like saying jeffrey dahmer was a good guy.
i can't agree more that this guy was more fucked up in the head than we can think. From the reports of domestic violence and shit i'm pretty sure he was just a time bomb waiting to go off.
Doesn't really matter if it was booze, steroids, drugs, video games, rock and roll or having a tiny dick. Somehow this guy was going to flip.
Several Atlanta-based law enforcement sources have told TMZ Benoit may have strangled his wife on Saturday, then smothered his son in his bed a day later. Investigators refuse to officially comment, pending final confirmation by the coroner on the cause and time of the deaths.
I actually said they're retarded . I'm not a wrestling fanatic like them. Like any star, some fans are always going to deny what happened. Especially a situation like this thats so fucked up. unless its paris hilton and we all are fighting to be on the jury to say she's guilty.
First off, this is a terrible thing. Its not a fucking laughing matter.
Whatever caused Benoit to do what he did, it was serious. Whether that was mental issues, or drugs. He obviously showed remorse and could not live with his actions. I doubt he went in planning to kill himself and his whole family.
It's Terrible and I feel bad for those who loved Benoit, for his fans, and for his family.
[ QUOTE ] Several Atlanta-based law enforcement sources have told TMZ Benoit may have strangled his wife on Saturday, then smothered his son in his bed a day later. Investigators refuse to officially comment, pending final confirmation by the coroner on the cause and time of the deaths.
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I hate that shit, if you plan on committing suicide, don't take others with you, just pretend you did to yourself before you do it (i'm not saying suicide is ok), at least this way some people will be spared.
besides, what's it matter to you if they are alive or dead if you are dead? jerks..
but yeah, I feel terrible about this kinda thing. it's sad
Yup, there's no actual evidence of steroid usage or that the murders were from 'rage'. As well, Benoit tested positive for steroids in mid April of this year.
She was bound and choked, and the son was killed at a later time, also indicating it wasn't rage.
Either way WWE.com is back to normal and they're not on the Benoit train any more.
I still think it's a great shame, finding out Benoit was the murderer still doesn't change my view of the man, I'm in agreement with Robert on this one.
If it was purely pre-meditated and Self-Justified, I doubt he'd have committed suicide.
Also, no one's to say he was planning suicide so he thought he'd take his family with him, that may have occured after the deaths, realising his actions.
i never compaired drugs to video games, i was compairing blaming drugs with no real evidence to blaming video games with no real evidence.
its a media tatic they are key to jump on any buzz words before any facts,
in fact holden and I were on fox 5 news tonite in the dc area cause they came to our wrestling school to do a report on the benoit thing and steroids in wrestling.
it seems now days something has to be blamed for everything. we can't just go "yea he flipped the fuck out." theres got to be a blame for the flipping out
I've been a benoit fan for years and he's one of the best wrestlers in the buisness, ans some of the guys at our school have met him on multiple ocasions. and had nothing but nice things to say aobut him. but despite all that. my opinion is "he just mentaly fliped the fuck out and did something horrible"
Maybe it went down just like how Dane Cook mentioned the thing about nothing fights. They had a fight about not having jelly in the house while they were at the supermarket. He called her a twat. Later she's crying asking what happened to us and why he got so angry. He tells her to come here and give her a hug and then "i can't breath" haha I know. Dear Welches god. Thank you for your jelly like intervention....
Link to the fox 5 story where they came to our school http://www.myfoxdc.com/myfox/pages/Home/...mp;pageId=1.1.1
Under Benoit picture is the sidebar, watch the video there. When they first show Jimmy, I'm in the ring in the grey shirt. Later when they interview John Kermon, Tracy and myself are locking up in the ring. They work quick, cause they were at the school until 7-8 and the news was at 10.
Replies
*TOOT TOOT* ALL ABOARD THE THREAD DERAILMENT!!!
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This seems to be a recurring thing for your threads for some reason
But I know damn well my Dad was a complete fuckin asshole on steroids.
The differences have fuck all to do with it, they're equally unproven. People blame video games for bad behavior more often than they blame steroids for bad behavior, and with just as little proof. This forum is filled with people who know about games, and so they recognize claims that video games cause people to commit murder to be horseshit. I'm someone who also knows about anabolic steroids, and I know that there's just as little evidence that they cause people to commit murder as video games.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just wanna clarify. Are you saying that steroids don't mess with a person's mood at all? That its just an urban myth?
Anytime a muscle head does something wrong, they blame sports and drugs. Anytime some nerd does something wrong, jack thompson blames anything connected to digital media and entertainment.
tell me why steroids [...] should be viewed differently.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The differences have fuck all to do with it
[/ QUOTE ]
You've got to be fucking kidding me, Verm. You ask why the two should be viewed differently, and then you say the differences have "fuck all" to do with it? You're defeating your own argument.
The differences have everything to do with it. Unlike video games, anabolic steroids have a DIRECT effect on the physiology of the body, including hormone levels which influence brain chemistry. All of these things (physical stress, hormones, brain chemistry) play a large role in human behavior. To liken the persecution of steroid use to the persecution of video games is bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit.
Again, sorry to be contributing to the derailment of your thread Adam... this'll be my last post here. I think this conversation should be taken to PMs if anyone is still interested in carrying it on.
Give a lunatic a Mt Dew though and look out.
*Plays "Baba O'Riley"*
Just wanna clarify. Are you saying that steroids don't mess with a person's mood at all? That its just an urban myth?
[/ QUOTE ]
No, I'm saying that steroids don't compel anyone to commit murder. It's a correlation-causation thing.
Really, consider who might be seriously using steroids. It's not laid-back hippie types, right? It's innately aggressive and hyper-competitive males, often athletes or similar performers, who have a fanatical interest in physical strength. They're willing to break the law and risk long-term health problems just to be more dominant. They have that attitude *before* they get hooked on the drugs, which is exactly why they get hooked on the drugs.
Consider a guy who is just a demon in the gym, an absolute hardass who pounds out rep after rep after rep just to be even more powerful or physically impressive than he already is. Is it hard to imagine a guy that aggressive and driven is already capable of violence? Does it really take a hormone boost to make him dangerous?
You don't take steroids because you want to add a few yards to your golf swing or improve your performance in weekend tennis. You take steroids because you want to be a strong motherfucker, and you are willing to take significant risks to do it.
Remember that Chris Benoit's entire career has been based around fighting. He was involved in wrestling since he was a teenager, more than half his life spent delivering bodyslams and piledrivers. I don't think he needed steroids to be a violent individual.
This is a bit of a tangent, but also consider some information on the crime. Strangling the wife? Okay, I'll call that an act of "rage." Maybe she overcooked the roast and he just flipped out. But smothering his kid, in the kid's bed? That's not a moment of sudden anger, flying off the handle - that's deliberate murder. He had to go from whatever room he killed his wife in, head upstairs to the bedroom and then intentionally smother his child. That's not a moment of anger, that's serious psychopathic behavior.
Here's a wild theory. What if the kid wasn't really his? The misses got knocked-up by someone else and came clean, then got done in. Even with this theory, its hard for me to understand how or why he would kill the little boy. He must have went batshit insane.
Spark
P.S: And Verm, you were starting to sound like a pusher there for a second:) Dude! my roids are like skittles..full of rainbows:P hahah jk
It's not something that can easily be explained. He is obviously a guy with some serious issues and taking any drugs, or even drinking for that matter can make someone become more depressed and do things that they may later regret. I think he did it so he wouldn't lose his family. Why else would he put a bible next to his sons body? He killed his wife and probably thought all was lost so he killed his son and then the next day or day after hung himself.
He did it in his gym though so that must have been a really special place to him since a lot of people will commit suicide in places they hold dear.
No matter what the cause it is sad that it had to end this way.
I wonder if toys based off him will become collectible. Time to make a trip to walmart
"ATLANTA -- Pro wrestler Chris Benoit strangled his wife, suffocated his 7-year-old son and placed a Bible next to their bodies before hanging himself by the pulley of a weightlifting machine, authorities said Tuesday."
I don't know how much steroids affect your mood, but I'm pretty sure they don't make you place Bibles next to the corpses of family members you've just murdered. Benoit was a seriously fucked up individual. I think that the 'investigators' who are looking for a link to steroids are similar to the ones looking for a link to video games in the VT massacre. Loner shoots up his school? Must be video games. Pro athlete murders his family? Must be steroids.
This is the objection I had with Jesse's post to start with. We at Polycount don't like it when people automatically assume video games make people into killers. Since we know how the news media exaggerates that, we shouldn't automatically assume steroids are to blame here. Both are convenient excuses for evil behavior. We deny the one that pertains to us, we shouldn't be so ready to accept another when the evidence is no more solid.
a lot of my friends are backing the guy up, mainly based on his tv personality, but really the guy coulda been an ass in real life.
a lot of my friends are backing the guy up, mainly based on his tv personality
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Why would anyone back anyone up who killed their wife and children? What possible excuse is there for that, besides extreme mental problems?
i can't agree more that this guy was more fucked up in the head than we can think. From the reports of domestic violence and shit i'm pretty sure he was just a time bomb waiting to go off.
Doesn't really matter if it was booze, steroids, drugs, video games, rock and roll or having a tiny dick. Somehow this guy was going to flip.
why not let his son and wife live, geez!
Whatever caused Benoit to do what he did, it was serious. Whether that was mental issues, or drugs. He obviously showed remorse and could not live with his actions. I doubt he went in planning to kill himself and his whole family.
It's Terrible and I feel bad for those who loved Benoit, for his fans, and for his family.
Several Atlanta-based law enforcement sources have told TMZ Benoit may have strangled his wife on Saturday, then smothered his son in his bed a day later. Investigators refuse to officially comment, pending final confirmation by the coroner on the cause and time of the deaths.
[/ QUOTE ]
I hate that shit, if you plan on committing suicide, don't take others with you, just pretend you did to yourself before you do it (i'm not saying suicide is ok), at least this way some people will be spared.
besides, what's it matter to you if they are alive or dead if you are dead? jerks..
but yeah, I feel terrible about this kinda thing. it's sad
why not let his son and wife live, geez!
evidence (so far) is *AGAINST* steroids.
She was bound and choked, and the son was killed at a later time, also indicating it wasn't rage.
Either way WWE.com is back to normal and they're not on the Benoit train any more.
I still think it's a great shame, finding out Benoit was the murderer still doesn't change my view of the man, I'm in agreement with Robert on this one.
If it was purely pre-meditated and Self-Justified, I doubt he'd have committed suicide.
Also, no one's to say he was planning suicide so he thought he'd take his family with him, that may have occured after the deaths, realising his actions.
It's all still a huge lump of speculation.
its a media tatic they are key to jump on any buzz words before any facts,
in fact holden and I were on fox 5 news tonite in the dc area cause they came to our wrestling school to do a report on the benoit thing and steroids in wrestling.
it seems now days something has to be blamed for everything. we can't just go "yea he flipped the fuck out." theres got to be a blame for the flipping out
I've been a benoit fan for years and he's one of the best wrestlers in the buisness, ans some of the guys at our school have met him on multiple ocasions. and had nothing but nice things to say aobut him. but despite all that. my opinion is "he just mentaly fliped the fuck out and did something horrible"
or something like that.
http://www.myfoxdc.com/myfox/pages/Home/...mp;pageId=1.1.1
Under Benoit picture is the sidebar, watch the video there. When they first show Jimmy, I'm in the ring in the grey shirt. Later when they interview John Kermon, Tracy and myself are locking up in the ring. They work quick, cause they were at the school until 7-8 and the news was at 10.