Enough. Shooting.
polycounter lvl 18
i don't mean to sound like a curmudgeon, but is anyone else sick of violence in games? don't get me wrong -- i enjoy playing games that are fun to play, like god of war 2, but as far as the subject matter goes in terms of a narrative.. chhhrriisstt I'm bored.
I've been really feeling lately that, in a lot of ways that are being over looked, this industry is incredibly immature. does anyone else feel the same way? would anyone else like to see some more interesting or thought provoking content in games? I feel like quite frankly, video games are potentially the best art medium there is because of their interactivity.. but the content is always some X with a tiny ego who's killing Y with a Z.
Is the market ready for something higher? if no, what about the idea of having a standard type of us vs. them violent conflict, but at the climax of the story, something happens that makes using those thinking modes (the violent ones) useless or somehow obsolete, so the player is forced to use higher more complex modes of interaction. a moral or theme for the story could also be suggested here.
In a movie, if there wasn't character development the film would be considered poor. in games, you are the character, but sometimes it seems that the story you're in hasn't been indicative of any sort of development since.. fucking.. DOOM.
thoughts?
btw- is there any games out there that are doing this type of thing that I'm not aware of?
I've been really feeling lately that, in a lot of ways that are being over looked, this industry is incredibly immature. does anyone else feel the same way? would anyone else like to see some more interesting or thought provoking content in games? I feel like quite frankly, video games are potentially the best art medium there is because of their interactivity.. but the content is always some X with a tiny ego who's killing Y with a Z.
Is the market ready for something higher? if no, what about the idea of having a standard type of us vs. them violent conflict, but at the climax of the story, something happens that makes using those thinking modes (the violent ones) useless or somehow obsolete, so the player is forced to use higher more complex modes of interaction. a moral or theme for the story could also be suggested here.
In a movie, if there wasn't character development the film would be considered poor. in games, you are the character, but sometimes it seems that the story you're in hasn't been indicative of any sort of development since.. fucking.. DOOM.
thoughts?
btw- is there any games out there that are doing this type of thing that I'm not aware of?
Replies
btw- is there any games out there that are doing this type of thing that I'm not aware of?
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http://www.atari.com/fahrenheit\
Also, violence is one of the few things you just aren't allowed to do in real life, so it's fun to pretend.
one example of a next gen game i thought was pretty rad story-wise and character wise, was the latest splinter cell. not a perfect game, and not a totally engrossing story, but I guess with the point of not being able to shoot, and picking your battles carefully involves higher thought processes.
i really like the last tomb raider as well. not a lot of character development really, but more gameplay elements that went beyond ,run and gun.
i agree though. on the one hand, people that want story and character development tend to play RPGs. Prey tried to put character into Tommy, and it pissed people off. I think it was because in a first person game, you are the character, so when you hear a voice that is not you, telling you what you're thinking, it takes away from the immersion.
on the other hand, I hate the silent hero types, like Link.
I think one of the best games, with a really good narrative and good character development was Beyond Good or Evil. I think they did a great job.
i think on whole, the bestselling games lack depth, and have pretty graphics. most people aren't interested in story and character. they just want action. I've started reading again just because of that. When I want a good story, I read, because in terms of games, it's really tough to come by. This also stems because some games are developed around what they want the player to be able to do. what the features are. and then they tack on a story to try and encompass those features. when you try and write a story and fit a game to it, it becomes hard i think to sell your game. condemned 2 is a good example. we wrote a story, now lets try and put some gameplay in there. will it be fun? we hope, but we weren't designing it around game features, but more around the story.
pros and cons i guess....
I do think we can expect to see more of this type of game though.
Quoting carmack: story in a game is like story in a porno, it helps, but it's not why you came.
I really do not think there should be this focus on stories or characters. When everyone is trying to make a realistic game with a movie type plot, you get a lot of the same thing.
primarily tactical games (make shooting more like real shooting/tactics etc. while still remaining fun) and most especially stealth games.
Hitman games are probably the games i enjoy most overall because, despite allowing you to play as a murderous psychopath, the most rewarding style of play is the most surgical. sometimes it's so much more fun NOT to shoot, or see how few bullets you need. yeah, at the end of the day it's still about killing someone, but in the amount of strategy, planning, costume-use, etc. it approaches some of the enjoyment i got out of old style adventure games.
both Hitman and Splinter Cell allow the player to exercise as much or as little benevolence with regard to most NPCs they encounter that i find really enjoyable. that, and Sam Fisher's knock-out animations are always fun to play.
anyway, those are my shoot-y time favorites. as people have pointed out, if you're tired of violence you really need to open your horizons, there are plenty of great games where killing isn't the main object.
I've got 20-25 DS games, and the only one with shooting is Metroid Prime. Oh, you could probably count Advance wars too.
I keep in me fuckin motar dun I
its called publishers forcing developers to make the types of games that sell. Shooters sell.
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i'm looking at the UK all-formats charts now. In the top 10, the nearest i can see to a shooter is Crackdown at #8. Then, the next shooter is Medal of Honour Vanguard at ... #23. Gears of War #24. CoD3 #34. That's it for the top 40.
The only other games featuring traditional ideas of violence are GTA VCS and God of War2. There's Lego Star Wars 2 of course, which is THE most violent game ever made, but thats just in my head.
The majority of games riding high in today's chart are the sorts of games that people are suggesting opening up to : Wii Play, Brain Training, Singstar, Buzz, Sims etc etc. They have been for quite some time.
yep, i really think it's time for a rethink of the old clich
http://uk.gamestracker.com/pc/chart.htm
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its called publishers forcing developers to make the types of games that sell. Shooters sell.
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i'm looking at the UK all-formats charts now. In the top 10, the nearest i can see to a shooter is Crackdown at #8. Then, the next shooter is Medal of Honour Vanguard at ... #23. Gears of War #24. CoD3 #34. That's it for the top 40.
The only other games featuring traditional ideas of violence are GTA VCS and God of War2. There's Lego Star Wars 2 of course, which is THE most violent game ever made, but thats just in my head.
The majority of games riding high in today's chart are the sorts of games that people are suggesting opening up to : Wii Play, Brain Training, Singstar, Buzz, Sims etc etc. They have been for quite some time.
yep, i really think it's time for a rethink of the old clich
Shooters are always reasonably popular.
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Obviously, judging by what people are buying, the key word in that sentence should be "were"
It is not about the violence of the shooters, but the gameplay principle itself, which applys to Lego Star Wars too I guess. And I am pretty bored by that as well.
To sum it up, right now there are more or less 4 and a half gameplay types available:
1. Shooting games, doesn't matter if it is a FPS, or a Space/Filght Sim etc... gameplay principle "you shoot stuff, the end" Sure those tactical one are more interesting, but they also boil down to the samething.
2. RTS: You click and your units shoot, can be fun in multiplayer, but singleplayer is either extremly scripted up to a point where it is almost an interactive movie (which bad graphics
3. "Game" games: Basicly regular tabletop /casual sports games transferred to the digital medium. Usually require quick reactions, and have a very simple and repetitive gameplay principle. Great as party games, but not really a thing you would play for long alone.
4: Story driven Adventures/RPGs: Basicly an interactive movie
4 1/2: Leveling based RPGs: Boring
Edit: Oh and slap in a chat system and you got a MMORPG
All the games you mentioned fall into those categories. Sometimes a few games are a mix in between, mostly #1 or #3 and those tend to be the most enjoyable, but it really is quite shallow.
There a a few excerptions, mostly "non games" like the Sims, or relative obscure "construction" strategy games like Civ, maybe Spore and so on, but that is really all there is.
Do I have perfect other idea? Hell no, but at leasts it is worth thinking about.
Phoenix Wright?
Where does Meteos and Every Extend Extra and Lumines fit?
Is Project Gotham Racing a 'casual sports game'?
Do all platformers = 'Game' games?
did you not know that?
But I too crave something more
Assasin's Creed
Bioshock (although a shooter)
Splinter Cell Conviction
They all look interesting to me. And if you haven't played shadow of the colossus, you're cheating yourself
Make money of those with little demands.
Could still discuss the need for violence as a compensator (achievements, self esteem, human nature blablabla) or indicator for our current state but if you ask me it's more the challenge of prevailing under something we would broadly see as stressful, tense situations (wich violence creates). The joy of stimulation.
Phoenix Wright is a good example but you could still throw it into Story driven Adventures/RPGs
So what do you want to expect from the player other than to do what he is capable of at maximum. Interacting.
Even with a game like the Sims where you can take away the sense of purpose (which imho is a significant there or not because we have a tendency to drop stuff that doesn't serve a conscious purpose), it's still a person interacting through the device with the game world and that is bound to the limitations of the platform and the design.
The result of course are these categories that JKM listed, that demand skills that we use in our everyday live and interaction in our environment.
So once again I think it's more what you can actually throw at the people, what reaches them or what they reach for that defines what games are out there and I think it's going into an interesting direction because there still is enough (actually more than ever) room for relate able ideas that keep things moving within the developer community and with the consumers.
It's all about the love isn't it
*bleh
PS: Jimmies your ava just gets more and more freaky with every turn
"Please be quiet, I'm performing surgery on someone who was shot in the head 47 times.
Alex
Flight sims?
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Be honest, there is more or less only MS flight simulator which doesn't fit into the shooter category, everything else released recently seem to be heavy combat based "flight simulators".
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Phoenix Wright?
Where does Meteos and Every Extend Extra and Lumines fit?
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That Phoenix game looks pretty cool, but you have to admit that those are all pretty obscure titles for the DS (probably almost only available in Japan), and those puzzle games could even fit into the "games"game category.
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Is Project Gotham Racing a 'casual sports game'?
Do all platformers = 'Game' games?
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2x Yes.
A useful category. So really you have 3 categories - RPG, FPS, RTS and then everything else.
Shooting is fun when its done right. when a game just abuses guns and ammo, the idea of killing things isnt as impactful. It ends up being repetitive.
Take any open world Thug simulator for example, You are given endless amounts of ammo and guns, and you're always shooting and blowing up cars. You do it so much, so often it looses its thrill. That dulls the expirence in those games for me. Now give me a survival shooter, where guns and ammo are precious, Guns become more real and respected. I like that.
Now a game like BF2. I play that for shear,, naa nanaanaa naa. I'm better that you ARE!! pttttt, reasons. :P
concerning single player games though:
I like the type of shooters that actually make you respect your weapon. too many games dont do this, and the only purpose of the game is to shoot, the story and character comes in last place.
My ideal game would be a full world, deep intriguing story, mystery, emotions, then later would come the guns that are hard to obtain, and come with the utmost of consequences if used, that would work just fine.
That Phoenix game looks pretty cool, but you have to admit that those are all pretty obscure titles for the DS (probably almost only available in Japan)
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Most get dubbed and released in other countries, and the DS has no region limits, so it hardly matters with some games.
http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=2669
Very mushy lol, but I think they have some great ideas and its good to see them comming together in a high end title. Shooters getting old for me also, thats why I got into RPG's though I havent played one through in years.
G4C (Games For Change)
Social Impact Games
anyway, stop all the fluff, i think its cause all the designers now were raised on mario...and mario is the biggest piece of fluff that there is
G
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