Hmmmm... I am not sure if showing him posed to us is really helping much right now. I am looking over the geometry and it's hard to really crit ya based off these renders / screen grabs.
To me he feels really blocky. I know it's still early so I'm sure this will change.
Vig was right about moving to the modeling stage, and here you are, progressing very nicely along. the only thing that bothers me right now is the mesh flow for the back four limbs; they don't seem as well shaped and contoured as the "arms". i'll leave it to people who actually know what the hell they're talking about when it comes to meshflow, though.
overall this has been a very enjoyable transition to watch, and it ain't halfway over yet. getting in all the little bits and bobs will definitely be very rewarding for both yourself, and for the viewers at home.
but a final note of caution about your plans to fill out the designs with warpaint and piercings... always try to avoid the obvious route. piercings and especially warpaint, post-LotR, are a little farmed out. it's not as if they invented warpaint, but they just happened to do it so perfectly that it casts a long shadow over anything of a similar nature, as well as inspiring plenty of imitators.
for better or for worse, anything epic fantasy-ish is going to have to contend with the incredile design work done on those films, just as all fantasy authors have to directly or indirectly deal with the long shadow of Tolkien himself.
so you know.. that's just how it goes. when making art of any kind you have to deal with the context within which it's being made.
so back to the point about warpaint and piercings. yes, you need to make him evil, but concentrate on novel ways of achieving that goal. if you go with piercings, you might as well end up giving him a tribal tat and a skateboard to go along with them, right? ok, so that was a little harsh, but you know. dig deep for inspiration, or sources to thieve wholesale from. you can still do warpaint and piercings in an evocative, powerful way, yet in a way that people aren't exactly expecting--just like people aren't expecting a slinky octoped critter like yours.
so here's my suggestion to consider as you detail out his evillish persona: going back to an element you played with earlier, the little jack ball. it was incongruous and playful, but therein lies the seed for something better...
ask yourself, why would this guy have anything like that on him? so he was captain of his junior high sneaking team and has continued probably most of his entire life to skulk around in dirty, dark places... where does this leave him psychologically? taking a page out of the killer's handbook, maybe your cheeky sneak has a penchant for taking some weird little trophies? like... children's toys? maybe dolls heads or something fucked up like that? think of a string of little doll's heads hanging from his neck... half of the eyes missing or closed, the others staring out vacantly, and they're filthy because he's kept them so long. just weird little trophies from the places he's been. maybe not even children's toys, they could be more or less everyday objects, but the dolls heads would of course up the freak factor considerably.
anyhow, just some suggestions to get you thinking about interesting ways of fleshing out the character. avoid the obvious route (as you've done a pretty good job of so far) and ask yourself a few questions, and you're off to the races. and of course if you think my overlong posts are now shitting up your thread with unwanted suggestions, you have only yourself and your shameless flattery to blame.
Gauss, if i had the capacity to do so, i would have your baby. I think im gonna go around and collect all of the little gauss quotes throughout this contest and make a book to flip through whenever designing a character.
back to business though, he is going to have trinkets hanging from him, what, im not sure yet. im thinking badges of the different armies on his backpacks. to not only show off his kills, but also give it that gutter punk feel. Also, the beads in his dreads are gonna be bolts from robots that he has "disassembled". The necklace and bracelet im not too sure about yet. And to replace the jackball, im making a polycount ball on there, hehe, you know you love it.
I personally think Gauss needs to give up whatever it is he does and raise orphans to be good artists. I know I would leave my kids on his doorstep if he did. I really like the trophy idea, even if you don't include it I will from now on imagine this guy pinching trinkets form places. It adds to the whole evil mutant ferret theme he kind of has going.
Model is looking good nice progress in such a short time!
Yeah Gauss I've got a very impressionable 21 month old that needs some training. I am gonna air freight him to your doorstep and I want him to be trained.
Now on to you Mr. Rich. I didn't kick your ass in school because I already feel bad enough about how your life is going. haha. Anyways. I am digging the idea of doll heads hanging or maybe an ear necklace or other trinkets. I have some videos you can take a peak at that might show you the horrors of war and give you some ideas you can use.
Have you started the high res yet? This one still looks rather blocky to me. I agree with stimpack. Bigger feet or this guy will be known as tenderfoot. That is not good.
http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~iany/patterns/images/cheetah.jpg
Ummmm, he is made for tracking and chasing things down, not long distance hauling. Wide feet are made for sand and snow, i picture most of the combat in rocky destroyed terrain or urban rubble that used to be cg chat capitals.
lots of thought has gone into him, he isnt just random things thrown together. smaller feet denote speed and agility: cheetahs, hyenas, goats...these have small feet for said reasons. if you guys need me to i will make a national geographic page about these things, along with full muscle and bones studies. I have taken a couple animal anatomy workshops, and spend most of my time designing fucked up creatures, you know that.
thanks for the crits though, there are lots of parts that are not smoothed that much yet, so the normal is still being worked on.
Damn you sensitive bastard. I'm sorry i forgot Valentines Day and your vagina still hurts but baby get over it. No I see what your saying now. I don't know much about animals other than they are fun to abuse and torture.
Just another little iteration. im like the weather chanel...constant updates.
jesse, first you forget my b-day, now valentines day, how am i supposed to feel. Leaving me everynight to go home to your "wife and kids"... we are over
I brought you a valentine... He's coming along smoothly.. I dont have any real crits except for things I know your working on.. (textures and whatnot) Late
its ok jesse u can come over to my thread and give crits, i wont bite your head off =P
your gonna hate me, but im with jesse. I still believe bigger feep will help. aestheticly it just feels right, weither it be "actually" correct or not.
he seems a little unbalanced to me. maybe adjust it so the torso sits more on the shoulders more. not to the extreme so it still looks streamline if he were on all ...eights. (weird to say ha ha). that might fix the feet problem too. wider feet would have to support the torso if it leans forward like that a lot. pushing it back some puts the wieght more on the body. i dunno. try it out. tweak with it some more. other than that, big ass thumbs up.
you can have your "looks > function" but im gonna stick with the main things that i follow:
A) Da Vinci: "artists should be scientists first, and painters second" Gameplay and design(function) beats out looks.
these are two things that i think about in almost every scenario, and as far as i know there are few that would differ from such statements(correct me if im wrong boys). Even as beautiful as gears of war is, the gameplay and functionality is what made it a good game, you can toss halflife two on that same boat. but these are my thoughts on the world, and you are entitled your opinion.
and to finish this stupid little tif that you two keep nagging on, the subject for our side is evil, not ferocious, not brutal. if those were the subject, than i would give him big man crushing legs, but slender, fast and quiet are much more evil in my book.
Here is my final post of the night, just been noodling most of the day, so im gonna take tomorrow off and come back during the weekend with a fresh start to it.
You need a generic light setup so your renders have more even lighting...
Great progress so far though... I don't know why those dudes are carrying on about big feet... I like the feel for the back feet/leg... but the ones in the front maybe could use better structure, the lower legs look like they don't have that nice taper that most creatures have. Claso I think if the claws were on those toes as well, it would improve their look... I also think the middle arms could use more bulk than the top arms since they sometimes function in running? I dunno... I like the texture layin... Keep it going!
well holy professor williams, good to see the enemy poking around offering up some good crits. I agree with the statement about the arms, that will be something adressed in my next iteration. i guess with the taper i will just have to do a little more research, but i think i see what you are pointing out. as for the nails, they were left out on purpose, i figured that they are evolved past needing the full sets of claws and could just keep the ones that are needed... and since the back legs are for more propulsion, they could use them for extra grip when running.
thanks for stoppin by, catch ya around.
ps
your dude is lookin pretty sweet, i like the super hero proportions. keep running with it.
one other things on the lower arms, i think im gonna make the forearms almost go straight into the hands, so it is bulky all the way down, to show he walks on them, almost like knuckle walkers. so it will end up looking half foot, half hand. any input on this idea would be cool. i will post a side by side of my changes.
i personally didnt see a problem with the feet. i just thought moving the upper body would aestetically fix the issue jess had. i think it looks great. i dig the dreads. dreads are either underplayed or poorly done usually. but for your guy it looks sweet. cant help but think this guy has a thick jamacian accent ha ha...
I like what you are saying mr delish, i think that once it is rigged it will solve the problem that you are seeing. I modeled it kinda leaning out so that it doesnt stretch too much when leaning one way or the other.
here he is with a scaley next to him, i was hanging out with jesse last night and he thought that it was big like a tiger(hence the need for the big feet) so here is his size ratio to a guy around six footish.
hope this helps, he is meant to be small and agile like randal from monsters inc.
Here is a little update, havnt done too much lately. started playing with war paint ideas, been looking at aborigonal designs for it. tell me what you think.
nothing on the chest yet, but its coming
hm...one thing i have been noting in your stuff is that the normal maps are very muddie , what i mean is that they seem a bit random, barely defining anatomy. You should use normal maps better
Wow! That is amazing! The only thing I can think is that the hair needs to me worked on more. Other than that, you've really captured the feel of the original concept. great work!
i just have a quick question for the masses, i hear that there is a way in zbrush to replace your lowest division with a new one. if anyone knows how to do such things, pm me or just post it up on here.
ps, i will post progress tomorrow, your crits have not gone unheard
Just go to your subdiv level of choice, go to import and choose the .obj (of the same polygon count) that you want to replace your current level with. The above levels will update automatically. Note that the .obj that you import can't have any triangles, and must be the same mesh as the original mesh. Therefore this method is only really useful for tweaking vert positions of your mesh outside of zbrush, and then exporting the result back to zbrush. If youre looking for a method of changing the topology of your zbrush mesh, that's also possible, but slightly more complex. Is that what youre looking for?
just playing with ideas for the stand. thinking kind of a wasteland on the oustskirts of polycount territory. since this guy is a scout for border infiltration, it would be a good place for him.
shoot me some crits.
oh yeah, another question, i just switched over to using the max tangeant settings for smapper, and it gives me seems, but the map looks better. does anybody know how to get rid of the seems.
johnny, i think what was holding the normal maps back was the lack of spec to dig into the crevices, and that they werent on tangeant for max. i fixed both of those so tell me what you think.
i added more taper to the front leg grady
and about the hair, i wasnt sure if you meant the alpha planes or the dreads.
thanks for the crits and keep em coming.
Here is a little somethin somethin. put a spec on there that popped the normal a lot, brought out lots of the little details. still need to play with the spec levels, too waxy right now.
still workin on:
gloves
roughing up the wraps
spec map
lower back pack
...other than that,
rip it apart kids.
i think it looks way better, still i find it difficult to find form in all that light and dark brown , you can read it, but i think something is not right..im sleepy, will post here later;)
i totally agree with the getting mixed up in the lights and darks. ive played with it a bit and i had it popping apart better, but the spec kinda unified it again.
maybe if i add more bluish hue to the dark parts, bringing it closer to a grey, ill play with it tonight and post later.
oh yeah, jaco, i tried that switch and it worked, so you are officially awesome.
here is the more newer guy. im playing with the texture colors so it pops a bit more. the backpack on the bottom is still untouched like an ugly junior high kid and i am still working on popping the wraps some more.
bring on the crits boys, i havnt gotten any rants in a page or two...and i have abandonment issues
gav, can you post up a shot of just the char with just the normal map on, and post up all of your flats too so we can get a look at them and maybe help you clear up the shapes some.
its coming along alot more now, but I agree with the others, its still a little undefined and muddy. but I know joo can do it my little sailor=p
This guy is starting to get pretty noisy, this is the first high sculpt that i have done, so without thinking of design i pu in tons of little notches and bumps. Well, i knocked back some of the detail to give some smoother surfaces where the eyes can rest a bit. im gonna go over the whole thing trying to find more design elements to fix up instead of just noodling at him.
I gave him a thicker tail and a mane to balance all that is going on in the front, and patches from soldiers on th other armies.
here is his main firearm, it is like a rifle, but tha circle thingy around the grip houses a high velocity spinning clip that uses the force of the spin to hurl little disks of death without flash or sound. they have large scale ones out now, its kinda crazy the damage this technology does.
Posting the char with a white texture and the normal map applied will be very helpful in getting crits on why you seem to be having muddy textures. The flats also will be helpful.
Try playing around with the different anti-aliasing options in the renderer might help in getting a better picture.
The thing I would crit would be the body hair. Its very wispy, thin and straight. He would probably look better with thicker, rougher hair. Maybe even curly since he has dreads.
Don't give up yet, you're at the final polishing stage. It usually takes another 50% of the work done to get the final 10% to make it really shine
Replies
here is another pose, along with progress. Still need to figure out the legs, not quite working the way i want them.
again, this is a pose that i didnt bother painting weights on, just a test to see how he deforms in a couple of spots.
peace
To me he feels really blocky. I know it's still early so I'm sure this will change.
here are some newer shots of the dude, for sir moody of needyville. go watch your damn soaps old man. hehe, he is gonna beat me up at school.
im gonna start moving into the asymetrical portions now along with some of the props and attatchments.
overall this has been a very enjoyable transition to watch, and it ain't halfway over yet. getting in all the little bits and bobs will definitely be very rewarding for both yourself, and for the viewers at home.
but a final note of caution about your plans to fill out the designs with warpaint and piercings... always try to avoid the obvious route. piercings and especially warpaint, post-LotR, are a little farmed out. it's not as if they invented warpaint, but they just happened to do it so perfectly that it casts a long shadow over anything of a similar nature, as well as inspiring plenty of imitators.
for better or for worse, anything epic fantasy-ish is going to have to contend with the incredile design work done on those films, just as all fantasy authors have to directly or indirectly deal with the long shadow of Tolkien himself.
so you know.. that's just how it goes. when making art of any kind you have to deal with the context within which it's being made.
so back to the point about warpaint and piercings. yes, you need to make him evil, but concentrate on novel ways of achieving that goal. if you go with piercings, you might as well end up giving him a tribal tat and a skateboard to go along with them, right?
so here's my suggestion to consider as you detail out his evillish persona: going back to an element you played with earlier, the little jack ball. it was incongruous and playful, but therein lies the seed for something better...
ask yourself, why would this guy have anything like that on him? so he was captain of his junior high sneaking team and has continued probably most of his entire life to skulk around in dirty, dark places... where does this leave him psychologically? taking a page out of the killer's handbook, maybe your cheeky sneak has a penchant for taking some weird little trophies? like... children's toys? maybe dolls heads or something fucked up like that? think of a string of little doll's heads hanging from his neck... half of the eyes missing or closed, the others staring out vacantly, and they're filthy because he's kept them so long. just weird little trophies from the places he's been. maybe not even children's toys, they could be more or less everyday objects, but the dolls heads would of course up the freak factor considerably.
anyhow, just some suggestions to get you thinking about interesting ways of fleshing out the character. avoid the obvious route (as you've done a pretty good job of so far) and ask yourself a few questions, and you're off to the races. and of course if you think my overlong posts are now shitting up your thread with unwanted suggestions, you have only yourself and your shameless flattery to blame.
back to business though, he is going to have trinkets hanging from him, what, im not sure yet. im thinking badges of the different armies on his backpacks. to not only show off his kills, but also give it that gutter punk feel. Also, the beads in his dreads are gonna be bolts from robots that he has "disassembled". The necklace and bracelet im not too sure about yet. And to replace the jackball, im making a polycount ball on there, hehe, you know you love it.
and Jesse, you know i love you, dont beat me up.
thanks all
Model is looking good nice progress in such a short time!
Now on to you Mr. Rich. I didn't kick your ass in school because I already feel bad enough about how your life is going. haha. Anyways. I am digging the idea of doll heads hanging or maybe an ear necklace or other trinkets. I have some videos you can take a peak at that might show you the horrors of war and give you some ideas you can use.
damn
Playing with the sculpt, here is a quick normal test. There is still tons of work to do, but it is nice for a quick rough.
peace
Hopes you likes.
Ummmm, he is made for tracking and chasing things down, not long distance hauling. Wide feet are made for sand and snow, i picture most of the combat in rocky destroyed terrain or urban rubble that used to be cg chat capitals.
lots of thought has gone into him, he isnt just random things thrown together. smaller feet denote speed and agility: cheetahs, hyenas, goats...these have small feet for said reasons. if you guys need me to i will make a national geographic page about these things, along with full muscle and bones studies. I have taken a couple animal anatomy workshops, and spend most of my time designing fucked up creatures, you know that.
thanks for the crits though, there are lots of parts that are not smoothed that much yet, so the normal is still being worked on.
Just another little iteration. im like the weather chanel...constant updates.
jesse, first you forget my b-day, now valentines day, how am i supposed to feel. Leaving me everynight to go home to your "wife and kids"... we are over
I brought you a valentine... He's coming along smoothly.. I dont have any real crits except for things I know your working on.. (textures and whatnot) Late
your gonna hate me, but im with jesse. I still believe bigger feep will help. aestheticly it just feels right, weither it be "actually" correct or not.
looks > function.
my 2 cents, ill shut up about it now tho,
A) Da Vinci: "artists should be scientists first, and painters second"
these are two things that i think about in almost every scenario, and as far as i know there are few that would differ from such statements(correct me if im wrong boys). Even as beautiful as gears of war is, the gameplay and functionality is what made it a good game, you can toss halflife two on that same boat. but these are my thoughts on the world, and you are entitled your opinion.
and to finish this stupid little tif that you two keep nagging on, the subject for our side is evil, not ferocious, not brutal. if those were the subject, than i would give him big man crushing legs, but slender, fast and quiet are much more evil in my book.
Here is my final post of the night, just been noodling most of the day, so im gonna take tomorrow off and come back during the weekend with a fresh start to it.
peace
Great progress so far though... I don't know why those dudes are carrying on about big feet... I like the feel for the back feet/leg... but the ones in the front maybe could use better structure, the lower legs look like they don't have that nice taper that most creatures have. Claso I think if the claws were on those toes as well, it would improve their look... I also think the middle arms could use more bulk than the top arms since they sometimes function in running? I dunno... I like the texture layin... Keep it going!
thanks for stoppin by, catch ya around.
ps
your dude is lookin pretty sweet, i like the super hero proportions. keep running with it.
have u thought about maybe, just maybe giving him camoflouge around his body, like when soldiers paint themselves?
check my sillhouttes so far
http://www.cgchat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=255516#post255516
here he is with a scaley next to him, i was hanging out with jesse last night and he thought that it was big like a tiger(hence the need for the big feet) so here is his size ratio to a guy around six footish.
hope this helps, he is meant to be small and agile like randal from monsters inc.
nothing on the chest yet, but its coming
Maybe some more lens flare as well. I've been suggesting that for everyone and it works wonders. Also lots of bloom
-Dread_Reaper
ps, i will post progress tomorrow, your crits have not gone unheard
just playing with ideas for the stand. thinking kind of a wasteland on the oustskirts of polycount territory. since this guy is a scout for border infiltration, it would be a good place for him.
shoot me some crits.
oh yeah, another question, i just switched over to using the max tangeant settings for smapper, and it gives me seems, but the map looks better. does anybody know how to get rid of the seems.
i added more taper to the front leg grady
and about the hair, i wasnt sure if you meant the alpha planes or the dreads.
thanks for the crits and keep em coming.
Here is a little somethin somethin. put a spec on there that popped the normal a lot, brought out lots of the little details. still need to play with the spec levels, too waxy right now.
still workin on:
gloves
roughing up the wraps
spec map
lower back pack
...other than that,
rip it apart kids.
maybe if i add more bluish hue to the dark parts, bringing it closer to a grey, ill play with it tonight and post later.
oh yeah, jaco, i tried that switch and it worked, so you are officially awesome.
My pleasure
I agree that it's kind of hard to read though, maybe it's the light setup?
here is the more newer guy. im playing with the texture colors so it pops a bit more. the backpack on the bottom is still untouched like an ugly junior high kid and i am still working on popping the wraps some more.
bring on the crits boys, i havnt gotten any rants in a page or two...and i have abandonment issues
its coming along alot more now, but I agree with the others, its still a little undefined and muddy. but I know joo can do it my little sailor=p
I gave him a thicker tail and a mane to balance all that is going on in the front, and patches from soldiers on th other armies.
here is his main firearm, it is like a rifle, but tha circle thingy around the grip houses a high velocity spinning clip that uses the force of the spin to hurl little disks of death without flash or sound. they have large scale ones out now, its kinda crazy the damage this technology does.
Try playing around with the different anti-aliasing options in the renderer might help in getting a better picture.
The thing I would crit would be the body hair. Its very wispy, thin and straight. He would probably look better with thicker, rougher hair. Maybe even curly since he has dreads.
Don't give up yet, you're at the final polishing stage. It usually takes another 50% of the work done to get the final 10% to make it really shine