I don't care about your ideas
polycounter lvl 18
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"I've got a great idea for a game. I think I'd be a good ideas person."
I've heard that countless times when people find out what I do for a living. The conversation is usually along the lines of:
"So what do you do?"
I'm an artist.
"Ah, so do you get to design the games?"
No, I'm an artist, I make art.
Then the person decides that I must be rich, and games are easy work, and that they could make games for a living - except that they have no programming or art skills. So what does that leave (apart from producing, sound, localisation, testing, HR and PR)?
Designing. They are an ideas person. Good at stories. And they have an idea.
Now, I hate to burst anyones bubble, but games companies up and down the land are not gnashing their teeth and beating their breasts due to lack of ideas. Hell, ask any one person in a games company for 5 ideas and you'll have them in 5 minutes. As someone who has never worked in games you are not going to walk into a company and have them proclaim 'Hallelujah! We are saved!'.
Games companies don't need ideas.
I don't need you idea either. For one thing, I've already got ideas, and they've already been refined. Yes, I'm saying that my ideas are better than yours. Yes, I am that egotistical. I don't care about your idea, I care about mine.
Oh, and one final point - I legally don't want to hear your idea. Let's say that the place I worked for was making a game where you were a dinosaur that transformed into a spaceship to track down evil magic cowboys, and you told me in the pub that you had an idea where you were a magic cowboy hunting dinosaurs. The two are unrelated, but you could claim when the game was released that it had been your idea. This is not uncommon, and I've worked for a company where this happened - two guys claimed that we overheard them talking in a pub and stole their idea (when in fact the game idea had come from a few years previously in a city a few hundred miles away). They tried to sue - and whilst they lost, they had to be taken seriously.
But anyway. I don't care about your ideas. Mine are better.
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"I've got a great idea for a game. I think I'd be a good ideas person."
I've heard that countless times when people find out what I do for a living. The conversation is usually along the lines of:
"So what do you do?"
I'm an artist.
"Ah, so do you get to design the games?"
No, I'm an artist, I make art.
Then the person decides that I must be rich, and games are easy work, and that they could make games for a living - except that they have no programming or art skills. So what does that leave (apart from producing, sound, localisation, testing, HR and PR)?
Designing. They are an ideas person. Good at stories. And they have an idea.
Now, I hate to burst anyones bubble, but games companies up and down the land are not gnashing their teeth and beating their breasts due to lack of ideas. Hell, ask any one person in a games company for 5 ideas and you'll have them in 5 minutes. As someone who has never worked in games you are not going to walk into a company and have them proclaim 'Hallelujah! We are saved!'.
Games companies don't need ideas.
I don't need you idea either. For one thing, I've already got ideas, and they've already been refined. Yes, I'm saying that my ideas are better than yours. Yes, I am that egotistical. I don't care about your idea, I care about mine.
Oh, and one final point - I legally don't want to hear your idea. Let's say that the place I worked for was making a game where you were a dinosaur that transformed into a spaceship to track down evil magic cowboys, and you told me in the pub that you had an idea where you were a magic cowboy hunting dinosaurs. The two are unrelated, but you could claim when the game was released that it had been your idea. This is not uncommon, and I've worked for a company where this happened - two guys claimed that we overheard them talking in a pub and stole their idea (when in fact the game idea had come from a few years previously in a city a few hundred miles away). They tried to sue - and whilst they lost, they had to be taken seriously.
But anyway. I don't care about your ideas. Mine are better.
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This discussion has been closed.
Replies
On the same note, I've run into more than a few people who 'want to work in the industry' and 'want to be game designers'. I immediately go on to ask them what other areas they have interest or skill in... and hope for their sake they have an answer.
here is a guy who wants to make a mmorpg game from html... and this same guy also calls himself an "Idea Management Engineer"
I've heard the same when it comes to programming. Apparently being a programmer means you make video games or that I want to sit with them and code their ideas.
I've had one guy tell me that his son was going to sign up for classes to become a programmer because he liked games. I told him, no offense, but liking games does not make you a programmer. If he hasn't even touched code (and he hasn't), then he doesn't have a clue what it will involve. Especially since the gaming industry really isn't in Michigan.
but seriously ive got the best ideas, most of the involve mixing two genres and calling it the best thing youve ever seen.
that and fish fighter 20000
"I made Grand Theft Auto. Fuck off."
Making games is NOT easy and most of these nubs don't realise that every model, every texture and every line of code takes time and effort. I got a team together of "pro modders" and most of them have bailed because they didn't realise how hard it would be....
If ideas made money we'd ALL be fucking billionairs. Whats worse is that if you humor them and ask them to give you an example they dont really HAVE an idea anyways.
Game Idea = Concept, gameplay style, plot, character backgrounds, world details, character faction relations etc etc
Game Idea does not = I want elves with boobies dancing arround a tree singing "I don't have a clue"
Just tell them to go play their games and leave the creation to the guys that know what they're doing.
I have to 'feel' them out first.
I've had intelligent conversations turn into slobby, fanboy, IwanttomakeanRPGthatwillchangeeverything converssations.
Game Idea = Concept, gameplay style, plot, character backgrounds, world details, character faction relations etc etc
Game Idea does not = I want elves with boobies dancing arround a tree singing "I don't have a clue"
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I agree with you there. On the other hand I think that any designer making games should have enough distance to the media to think outside the box. He should have enough knowledge about history, military concepts, psychology, and so on, to get ideas for games. In my experience many game designers nowadays simply don't have enough of that and the results are unbelievable gameworlds, no matter how great the graphics or even the gameplay is.
Imho getting writers to do the story of a game or asking other qualified(!) people for ideas is a great thing to do. There are a couple of games where I think it paid off. HL2 is a great example, the concept behind the combine technology feels authentic because it's influenced by knowledge about modern armed forces.
[ QUOTE ]
Game Idea = Concept, gameplay style, plot, character backgrounds, world details, character faction relations etc etc
Game Idea does not = I want elves with boobies dancing arround a tree singing "I don't have a clue"
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with you there. On the other hand I think that any designer making games should have enough distance to the media to think outside the box. He should have enough knowledge about history, military concepts, psychology, and so on, to get ideas for games. In my experience many game designers nowadays simply don't have enough of that and the results are unbelievable gameworlds, no matter how great the graphics or even the gameplay is.
Imho getting writers to do the story of a game or asking other qualified(!) people for ideas is a great thing to do. There are a couple of games where I think it paid off. HL2 is a great example, the concept behind the combine technology feels authentic because it's influenced by knowledge about modern armed forces.
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Naw - game designers need to know nothing like that. Story should be discarded at the start.
A game designer should simply be able to take anything (such as get from a to b, or put this here) and make it fun.
Anything else is just wrapping.
There in no way that the average joe is going to know what you know. I suppose they are just making converation
I tend to tell people that I am a commercial artist or some such to avoid having to exlpain in great length what I do
Naw - game designers need to know nothing like that. Story should be discarded at the start.
A game designer should simply be able to take anything (such as get from a to b, or put this here) and make it fun.
Anything else is just wrapping.
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Hehe, like running over pedestrians whilst on route from a to b
It depends on the genere I guess.
Naw - game designers need to know nothing like that. Story should be discarded at the start.
A game designer should simply be able to take anything (such as get from a to b, or put this here) and make it fun.
Anything else is just wrapping.
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That's one way to do it and I have done it with the mod brainbread (but even there, robotwarriors instead of zombies would have made the mod less fun in most peoples opinion). But you'll end up with the same type of games again and again if you handle gamedesign like this all the times. Context is imho an underestimated part of a fun gamemechanism. In the right context a gamemechanism can be a lot more fun than as an isolated part.
All the designers at my computer are multi-talented, if anyone were to start pitching an idea I would immediately cut them off with questions about what skills they have, and that they are perfectly able ot pursue those ideas as a mod maker. Once you drop the reality bomb on the person they'll usually shut up.
Oh BTW, my ideas are much much better than yours Rick. You have a ego? HA! They are though the things that "aren't" fun in your limited view. And they are shared in hopes of making things better.
I've also found that if the person is an anime fan. The story that is pitched to you is going to be boring as hell, and it will involve a guy with a special weapon of some kind.
Honestly, my ideas are not suitable for games. More for film/animation.
Naw - game designers need to know nothing like that. Story should be discarded at the start.
A game designer should simply be able to take anything (such as get from a to b, or put this here) and make it fun.
Anything else is just wrapping.
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That all really depends on the player. Personally, I think how immersive and interesting a game's story, background and atmosphere is is very important too.
The following piece of text may be an odd comparison, but still. Half a year ago I bought TESIV: Oblivion, and there's nothing wrong with the gameplay. Hacking, shooting and magicing has never been so easy or nice in an RPG, and battling was pretty fun. The game as a whole, however, was not. The story has no value, the world doesn't present you with new stuff because everything is as you can expect from a fantasy world, and the dialogue is awful beyond comparison. This ruined the entire game for me, even though there was nothing wrong with the combat.
Comparing to Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines (which, though older, I bought a while after Oblivion). The Combat in VTM:B isn't nearly as sophisticated as in Oblivion, and mostly involves clicking a lot. And then some more clicking. The setting, however, provides you with interesting characters, superb dialogue and an immersive world where people seem real. In Oblivion, this was not the case, and I like it less for that.
It probably all depends on the gamer, but for me, the wrapping is just as important as the actual gameplay.
The point being brought up about it being a team endeavour is pretty much nonsense, i think thats too much patriotic movie / media mumbo jumbo clouding the reality that those that are in charge of design guard their territory fiercely and any time its pointed out that its a collaborative process, its the language of political correctness.
However, despite all that, noone will beleive a word of this or Rick's points until they experience it for enough years first hand.
r.
The point being brought up about it being a team endeavour is pretty much nonsense, i think thats too much patriotic movie / media mumbo jumbo clouding the reality that those that are in charge of design guard their territory fiercely and any time its pointed out that its a collaborative process, its the language of political correctness.
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But at the same time, didn't in your background you worked on mods initially? Were the people who ran those as you describe? I hope not, as that top down method is a sure way to turn off volunteers.
How can you not see a counter arguement that it seriously depends on the developer. How is this politically correct one way or another? If your working for a small developer with around 10-20 people... total. It really is a group process (In fact Gamehouse worked this way for awhile). If you want to work for a larger company for a bigger paycheck, but where you are another artist.. then yea, you have a valid point.
Heh, I was just thinking, since so many companies are afraid of lawsuits; if you want to secure your idea, you should post and tell as many people in the industry as you can. Simply because then they wont be able to use it. Sorta like mailing yourself a letter with an idea, instead they are using Rick.
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I think I have a few letters I need to mail out...
here is a guy who wants to make a mmorpg game from html... and this same guy also calls himself an "Idea Management Engineer"
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PURE. COMIC. GOLD. The funniest part isn't even that he wants to develop an MMORPG in HTML, but the part about the different races:
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For humans there will be races. White, black, chinese, middle east, etc. Each will have different abilities which make them more suited for each class. For example whites will be suited for a sorcerer for their high intelligence. Blacks will be better suited for warriors as they are strong and low intelligence. Chinese will be well suited as archers becuase they are small and nible.
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In defense of accusations of being racist:
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Just think. Why would a black warrior even WANT intelligence. He has no magic. He is a melee fighter and is more interested in strength. Perhaps dexterity if he likes to dodge attacks.
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And that Idea Management Enginneer made my day
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IDEA EXAMPLE #1 Having super heros from DIFFERENT comics/games/etc. team up into one game and fight together or against each other.
this was actually implemented several times in fighting games, and super nintendo games like BattleToads/Double dragon. I earlier proposed a game idea where the power rangers, teenage mutant ninja turtles, and the 3 ninjas teamed up to save the world from space aliens.
[/ QUOTE ] ... a genious
alwell though, when the person that thinks this attempts, he falls hard and learns fast.
It carries more weight than guessing.
r.
I do have some insites you do not because I am on the outside and I get to speak and listen to developers talk while you are at your tablet all day. Ok? Is that so hard to accept?
In fact, this week the IGDA speaker mentioned a invite only game desinger retreat that guess what? Where they help one another on design issues they are encountering. That seems exactly ontrary to your statement as fact about how designers horde. Then as I mentioned gamehouse, where each team os the artists and the programmers working together. But I said used to be as they eventually became big enough to be bought out, so i don't know the current system.
If your interested, I will email the speaker to get the information on that retreat/conference. But please, in the future show a little respect and realize that in some ways your viewpoint is limited because you spend so much time in the trenches. Just as mine is in some ways from the outside. However in this, I have seen examples given that are contrary what you are trying to set as fact.
The industry is much larger than triple a developers.
PURE. COMIC. GOLD. The funniest part isn't even that he wants to develop an MMORPG in HTML
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I understand the races, I mean, this guys a dumbass for that, but what makes the HTML part stupid? Theres a ton (I'm exaggerating just a handful) of MMORPGs made using HTML, Java script, and AJAX.
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PURE. COMIC. GOLD. The funniest part isn't even that he wants to develop an MMORPG in HTML
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I understand the races, I mean, this guys a dumbass for that, but what makes the HTML part stupid? Theres a ton (I'm exaggerating just a handful) of MMORPGs made using HTML, Java script, and AJAX.
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You didn't read fully.
"I've been deciding between C++, HTML, java, PHP, ASP, C#, and .NET. The consensus is HTML is easiest to get something up and running. I know C++ is better, but this is a "realistic goals" project where getting finished is more important than using the latest technology."
he threw out java, ajax and all that. he wants just pure html
People dont understand what my job is like but instead of actually just telling them that in person im going to come on the internet and write a blog about it!!!!11`11one
LOL posting in an attention whore thread.
People dont understand what my job is like but instead of actually just telling them that in person im going to come on the internet and write a blog about it!!!!11`11one
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Do you think you can actually make them understand that it's a difficult job with pitfalls, requirements, and headaches like every other?
Fuck no dude, you just click on your computer a bit and shit appears easy as pie lol amiright!?
me is psicologically drunk, BA BYE!
you always speak up on subjects you have no experience of and thats why I always act like a dick around you.
listening to you about the games industry would be like taking sex tips from a virgin.
r.
oxy: having heard a guy talk about something you don't have first hand experience of and then forming opinions upon that doesn't make people with 1sthand knowledge respect you!
you always speak up on subjects you have no experience of and thats why I always act like a dick around you.
listening to you about the games industry would be like taking sex tips from a virgin.
r.
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have you any sex tips for me ror ?
r.
...
oh fucking BURN
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oxy: having heard a guy talk about something you don't have first hand experience of and then forming opinions upon that doesn't make people with 1sthand knowledge respect you!
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Sir, you constantly try to make absolutes when you have no right to with your own limited experience inside the industry. Have you worked at every type of game company? Whats the smallest and largest? Have you worked in all the different sections like casual, independant, or serious for any length of time? I brought up you mod history as that was the closest I could think of that you might have been able to relate to what I described.
So since you cannot admit to all of the above, you MUST logically concede that you cannot go establishing absolutes. You are not God. I even admitted for your situation (and likely the majority), yet you will not do the same. For shame! That sir, is a double standard which you try to justify on your own limited viewpoint as if it means more in this context.
If we limited this to speaking as such triple A houses, again as I said. You have a valid point. Otherwise, hogwash.
Do you want me to put up? I will email the gentleman tommorrow for that "getaway" as per who sponsors it and such. You can tell me that second hand is as such, however it is hard to argue with an actual conference where indeed they do share.
So please. You need to stop with your conceited "absolutes". I would hope by your age you would have realized the world is shades of greys by now.
Thank you.
Respectfully,
oXYnary