Aye, tyranid lictor. This is the torso, I'm doing it in parts. Sorry I didn't mention that before, I was in a rush to go see snakes on a plane hehe. That picture Chaos posted is one of the reference pics I'm using, there are a couple of others of different variants.
Update, getting more time to work on this as my degree is finishing. Did more detailing on the torso, trying to make it look more organic, and started detailing the claw.
Amazing! The Lictor has been one of my favorite bug minis for a while now. It sits on my monitor and has begged me a few times to model it but I resist. You picked a tough model to make and its looking great so far!
The stringly part around the elbow looks good but I think you should make some of them thicker. Kind of hint that some of them are used more than the others. something kind of like this:
i think what Vitor meant, wasnt just to make them thicker, but think about how they are going to be working. at the moment, they arent going to be able to pull the arm down for a strike, because for the most part, they are wrapped around the joint. whereas, if you look at his paintover, hes added a couple which head up the joint instead, which would give the pulling power required, something which is lacking at both joints on your mesh.
Almighty_gir you said what I was trying to say much better than I did, thanks.
/me climbs on soapbox
I like the improvements and no doubt that area isn't easy to work on. BUT it looks modeled in place yet is an action pose. You need can create motion even if the character is not moving (if that makes sense). Something brought that limb up something flexed or retracted but we don't see what. If you can create visual force holding that limb back then you get a sense of what will happen when it is released.
Don't get me wrong this model is everything I have ever hoped to see a lictor be, it looks great and my issues with the tendon parts are very minor and that area could already be a nightmare to work on without having to redo it, so at this point I would say keep that in the back of your mind for the next few joints.
I'll get back to the claw later for final tweaks, it's nearly done I'd say.
I started on the upper arm, but the pictures I have of lictures don't show the arms in much detail, so I've just sort of been faffing around trying stuff. This is what I've done, but I'm not happy with it. Ideas are most welcome (even starting the sculpting from scratch).
Whoa... That's some insane detail. I take it that's a material property to have the indents be darker like that, right? Damn, I need to borrow those zbrush dvds from my uncle. I want to be able to produce something of that quality.
Wierd, I typed out a post but it didn't seem to go through.
@ Makkon: Aye, the material has some bump to it and cavity shading, the very rough parts are actually sculpted, and enhanced a bit with the material. I've read material properties like this can be baked into the map in zbrush, so I might give it a shot. Not sure if those tiny details would show in the normal map though.
@Yelius: I wasn't happy with the arm (hadn't actually started the forearm or hand, so what you see is just the subdivided base mesh with the material). I moved onto the leg instead and restart zbrushing the arm later.
Hmm, I think I prefer the hands in the concept art better, but I might play around and try the mantis look, or possibly something in between.
Anyway, I started putting in the main details of the tail. I think when I normal map it though, I'll do the tail in sections and have them all share the same uv space.
Been working on the head. Still much more to do. I'll be working the web tissue stuff further down the tentacles so it flows better, then carry on with the rest.
I think the webbing stuff would work far better if it weren't so normalized a lattice... right now it looks like its a net or article of clothing he's got on.
Another things been bothering me about your piece, and I finally realized what it: You've got the same noise texture as a bump over everything, seemingly uniformly. While this might be a quick way to get some surface detail on the chitenous parts, it really shouldn't be on the sinews and other soft parts.
That's just from the material I bunged on it, I haven't gone into projection master yet to add those micro details. I'll try to remember to remove the colorbump setting in the material next time.
The webbing has been really getting on my tits trying to get it to look right. I've restarted it a bunch of times. I'll removing some of the strands and using the move tool to shift stuff abou and try to make it look more natural.
EDIT: Removed the noisebump from the materia and worked on breaking up the uniformity of the webbing.
Still unhappy with the webbing, I tried again, doing it a bit differently. Do you think this is better or worse than the version posted above? I think I prefer this one, but I'd like to hear other opinions. This wouldn't be the finished version of the webbing, I'd break it up a bit more.
how about this, instead of webbing up the tenticles in a dutch lattuce kinda style, why dont you deviate slightly, and go for the slimy, frog toes kinda webbing? it might help define the head from the rest of the model, and could well give you an easier time.
i imagine it would actually look prety cool.
the reason i suggest it is this: the webbing your using at the moment is very muscular in the way it works, and is found mainly in jointed area's. the mouth tenticles themselves are muscular here, and merely need something to keep them together, so a membraine is probably a better shout.
Thanks for the suggestion. I gave it a quick go, but couldn't really get the right look for it, I think with the tentacles being close together didn't really let me get the membrane look I tried.
I went for something a bit more simple. I need to get on with this character and this has held me up long enough, so I think this should do. I'll move onto the arm now (last bit!) and call the head more or less finished.
Righto, slapped the bits together in Zbrush as a test. It's a bit akward placing a lot of pieces, and the perspective distortion in zbrush is a bit off, but it has helped me judge proportions. I'll pull the shoulders in and down a bit, close up the 'collar' part more, shorten the arms a bit and sort out the legs.
Really nice work here Lupus, looks like you've put a ton of effort in, and it really shows.
I love the upper back arm things, they look awesome here.
However, there were a few issues that I think would REALLY improve this model and make it truly excellent... fortunately mostly i think they can be done just by simple tweaking of proportions (should be able to do this with FFDs or by modifying your lowest subd level in zbrush).
Here's a paintover to the effect of what I was thinking:
Basically the proportions need some big ol' tweaks... at the moment he's really top heavy, the head seems too big and the legs too small. Just scaling up everything from the waist down and scaling down the head would fix the "dumpy" look.
Also at the moment the arms look like they're some sort of sleeves he's wearing, and they look very inflexible.
The hands are awesome, but the silhouette of the arms needs more variation, and you need to sculpt in some joint definition around the elbow and inside the elbow - at the moment it looks like he can't bend his arms at all.
Hope you don't mind the paintover, I reckon this guy looks great, just needs a few final tweaks to push it over the edge into awesometown.
Aye, those are some of the proportion adjustments I was going to make I've been taking the lower levels into XSI now to sort them out. I'll also be pulling the shoulder (of the arm) further in and lower a bit (and raise the head a touch) so the the neck flows into it. At the moment the shoulder is actually above it, so doen't look like it's conencted. I've also got to sourt of the connection areas so the limbs can actually move hehe. The elbows were being a bit tricky to sort in Zbrush (probably because all the bits so close together) so I'm planning on sorting that in XSI. Hopefully I'll have a better pic tomorrow. The model isn't actuallya s deformed as it appears in Zbrush. The distortion is just magnified by the uber perspective hehe. But I suppose that is good in that it helps show problems.
Gah. I've got a problem now (a new one anyway). I've taken subd level 2 of each piece into XSI and tweaked proportions, but when I bring the mesh back into the appropriate tool, the detail on the higher levels is smoothed. I exported the base mesh from zbrush, tweaked then reimported incase it was the subd level 2 that was the problem. But I'm getting the same thing with this: smoothed out details.
I don't get it, since it's always worked fine for me before as far as I can remember.
how are you baking your normals?(or are you even planing on baking normals?) if your using it for a game rez model just go ahead and make a low to these porportions and bake your normals. then make the porportion changes on the low. if its just simple porportion changes and not mid to high level form adjustmets(like new muscle forms, or detail stuff) then it should still look fine.
also you can make a morph target of the ideal porpprtions and the old porportions, and make sure and UV the target ideal porportions, so when you bake them and chage the porportins there will not be too much streaching involved.
Cheers. I'll be building a new game mesh around the parts. I wasn't sure if there would be a problem with baking normals and doing the proportion adjustments to game mesh.
Looks like I can start the low poly mesh today then
Replies
Kinda neat, anyhow ^^
Edit: I didnt draw this! sorry didnt mean to confuse. I was just posting for those not familiar. go to www.gamesworkshop.com to check it out
Do that, buddy!
The stringly part around the elbow looks good but I think you should make some of them thicker. Kind of hint that some of them are used more than the others. something kind of like this:
Thickened up some tendons a bit and did more detailing around the rest of it.
good job so far though =]
/me climbs on soapbox
I like the improvements and no doubt that area isn't easy to work on. BUT it looks modeled in place yet is an action pose. You need can create motion even if the character is not moving (if that makes sense). Something brought that limb up something flexed or retracted but we don't see what. If you can create visual force holding that limb back then you get a sense of what will happen when it is released.
Don't get me wrong this model is everything I have ever hoped to see a lictor be, it looks great and my issues with the tendon parts are very minor and that area could already be a nightmare to work on without having to redo it, so at this point I would say keep that in the back of your mind for the next few joints.
regardless of my crit, i really like where this is going, 'Nids have always been one of the coolest looking armies.
I started on the upper arm, but the pictures I have of lictures don't show the arms in much detail, so I've just sort of been faffing around trying stuff. This is what I've done, but I'm not happy with it. Ideas are most welcome (even starting the sculpting from scratch).
@ Makkon: Aye, the material has some bump to it and cavity shading, the very rough parts are actually sculpted, and enhanced a bit with the material. I've read material properties like this can be baked into the map in zbrush, so I might give it a shot. Not sure if those tiny details would show in the normal map though.
@Yelius: I wasn't happy with the arm (hadn't actually started the forearm or hand, so what you see is just the subdivided base mesh with the material). I moved onto the leg instead and restart zbrushing the arm later.
evolving towards a mantis typed look, rather than the more human arm proportions.
Anyway, I started putting in the main details of the tail. I think when I normal map it though, I'll do the tail in sections and have them all share the same uv space.
U're doing high rez for normal map?
Another things been bothering me about your piece, and I finally realized what it: You've got the same noise texture as a bump over everything, seemingly uniformly. While this might be a quick way to get some surface detail on the chitenous parts, it really shouldn't be on the sinews and other soft parts.
The webbing has been really getting on my tits trying to get it to look right. I've restarted it a bunch of times. I'll removing some of the strands and using the move tool to shift stuff abou and try to make it look more natural.
EDIT: Removed the noisebump from the materia and worked on breaking up the uniformity of the webbing.
i imagine it would actually look prety cool.
the reason i suggest it is this: the webbing your using at the moment is very muscular in the way it works, and is found mainly in jointed area's. the mouth tenticles themselves are muscular here, and merely need something to keep them together, so a membraine is probably a better shout.
I went for something a bit more simple. I need to get on with this character and this has held me up long enough, so I think this should do. I'll move onto the arm now (last bit!) and call the head more or less finished.
High res:
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/2594/zcomptest4rq6.jpg
I love the upper back arm things, they look awesome here.
However, there were a few issues that I think would REALLY improve this model and make it truly excellent... fortunately mostly i think they can be done just by simple tweaking of proportions (should be able to do this with FFDs or by modifying your lowest subd level in zbrush).
Here's a paintover to the effect of what I was thinking:
Basically the proportions need some big ol' tweaks... at the moment he's really top heavy, the head seems too big and the legs too small. Just scaling up everything from the waist down and scaling down the head would fix the "dumpy" look.
Also at the moment the arms look like they're some sort of sleeves he's wearing, and they look very inflexible.
The hands are awesome, but the silhouette of the arms needs more variation, and you need to sculpt in some joint definition around the elbow and inside the elbow - at the moment it looks like he can't bend his arms at all.
Hope you don't mind the paintover, I reckon this guy looks great, just needs a few final tweaks to push it over the edge into awesometown.
Keep it up!
-MoP
Much appreciate all the support
I don't get it, since it's always worked fine for me before as far as I can remember.
also you can make a morph target of the ideal porpprtions and the old porportions, and make sure and UV the target ideal porportions, so when you bake them and chage the porportins there will not be too much streaching involved.
Looks like I can start the low poly mesh today then