40% of World of Warcraft Players Adddicted?
polycounter lvl 18
I wonder if the % is really that high...
http://www.twitchguru.com/2006/08/08/world_of_warcraft_players_addicted/
http://www.twitchguru.com/2006/08/08/world_of_warcraft_players_addicted/
Replies
That's why I'm never touching that damn game.
The sense that you are not getting your moneys worth or that you are wasting money on something that you are not playing comes into mind.
Games like Guild Wars that are free to play online give you more freedom to quit playing. There is no reason to feel bad that you aren't playing because you aren't paying a monthly rate.
It's documented that 78% of all statistics are pulled out of someone's ass.
(I just wrote it so there - it's documented!)
Also:
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This individual came from a family that was unfortunately breaking up, and World of Warcraft was his way to escape that. This 18-year-old individual was miserable. He didn't get along with any of his family members and kept withdrawing into the game.
RW: Then aren't the issues at home more of a problem than the actual games themselves?
Dr. Orzack: No, I disagree. You can't say that about Blizzard, which structures the games like World of Warcraft to be addictive.
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That sounds like a cop-out of the worst kind. Though I do agree that MMORPGS are addictive in one or many ways, To reduce the importance of the family issue to sloppy seconds is laughable.
If he kept withdrawing into the game for the purpose of escaping or dealing with his family it sounds to me like the addiction is running from his problems, not getting high end armour & weapons.
Untill that is satisfactorly explained her logic remains iffy.
I agree that this article, nay this "expert", is a pile of horseshit. games are constantly being accused of being harmfully addictive because this expert's generation has never played nor understood them. I honestly believe that's the driving force behind a lot of the bad rep our industry suffers.
Who cares the figure of 40% is right or not? As far as Im concerned, she has a point.
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It's an indication of whether the problem is because of the thing, or the person.
I don't know anyone who's done any of this ya'll are talking about. People call in sick to see movies, sports games, sleep in or do nothing. I don't know that it is so much worse that smoking problems. My boss nearly died as a part of smoking. When someone you know gets lung cancer from WoW, lemme know.
I really do not understand the relevance of lung cancer in this conversation. It is relevant how exactly? I assume you're making the point that an addiction to WoW isn't physically harmful? Perhaps not directly, but who the fuck wants to be on their deathbed looking back on their lives thinking 'gee, I was plugged into a videogame the whole time. That was um, nice'.
lung cancer was in the context of Ash insinuating that smoking isn't as bad as videogame addiction. I simply find them equally bad.
As I said before, I don't know anyone who has "dropped out" of life to live in WoW. I do, however know ppl who have spend years in and out of hospitals with lung cancer only to die early and horrid deaths. (because of an addiction) I guess that's the difference between my and your experiences.
It's hard to quantify what is a waste of time. I don't like playing istruments, although some people find it an expression of thier very self. Some ppl would find all the art we make here a waste of time. I find sports a waste of time. Sure they can make you fit, but I like to work out at the gym and get the damn thing over with so I can hang out with my friends... or eat more!
People with addictive personalities get addicted. What a surprise.
if people are strong willed, they will control their urge to play the game, and if they are not isnt it their problem?
instead of commending blizz on making a very popular multiplayer game, people are getting on their case because their game is addicitive .. talk about hypocracy
The market for casual gamers is much, much larger than for the fanatical hardcore. Say a casual gamer plays WoW for five hours a week and the fanatic plays thirty hours (picking arbitrary hours). Despite the difference in online time, they pay exactly the same monthly fee. If I'm Blizzard, do I want a game that caters to the $15/month from the WoW lifers or from the casual gamer? Not only does focusing on the casual player target a much bigger audience, it targets one that puts less stress on your network and customer support services.
Also, the psychology of addiction is still a somewhat vague thing, and the causes of addictive behavior are only partially understood. To say that Blizzard tried to create an "addictive" experience... what does that mean? That they hired psychologists to develop an experience meant to cause literal game addiction? I sincerely doubt it. I think Blizzard's game designers built the game that they felt best combined fun with long-term replayability. Seriously, who on the WoW dev team actually sat down and thought about ways to create a psychological dependence in the player base? Do they even have anyone on staff with that sort of knowledge, who could reasonable be expected to understand addictive behavior? Again, I sincerely doubt it.
IMHO, the people that get "addicted" to these games are already prone to some sort of escapist behavior, independent of slaying murlocks. You hear stories about Asian kids in game cafes playing Starcraft for 20 hours straight or keeling over dead after marathon CS sessions - no MMO or RPG component in either case, but the fanaticism is there. The medium is not the problem, be it RTS, FPS or MMORPG. The problem is behavioral and quite probably sociological, and could manifest itself in any number of ways. MMORPGs might facilitate that behavior, but they don't cause it.
Unlike my usual rants, I'm not saying the above is defintiely "how it is" and I suppose I could be compeltely wrong. That's my feeling on the matter, though and it also seems the most likely.
I stick by simple logic. If they weren't addicted to WoW, it'd be something else. T.V., drugs, gambling, what have you.
People with addictive personalities get addicted. What a surprise.
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Tulkamir, I'm going to hire you to sum up my posts in the future. You said in four sentences what took me four paragraphs
I stick by simple logic. If they weren't addicted to WoW, it'd be something else. T.V., drugs, gambling, what have you.
People with addictive personalities get addicted. What a surprise.
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I was about to say the same thing but then I thought about my friends... I have one that you could say had an addictive personality, she used to play Neopets every free hour she could get and is now scarily addicted to WOW (no job, extreme weight loss, sleep deprivation).
But the rest of my friends didn't really have any addictions unless they were addicted to drawing because that's what I've seen suffer as a result of WOW: Really promising artists who stopped drawing to play WOW. The only time they do any art now is for the fanart contests.
Games like WoW offer a very appealing escape from that sort of situation - it's virtual (no face-to-face social concerns), it's populated with similarly like-minded people (fellow nerds) and it has a subject matter they find compelling (Joe Nerd is perhaps more captivated by the thought of smiting dragons than scoring touchdowns). MMORPGs offer a safe social outlet for people who don't seem to have a lot of real-world alternatives. PvP and Raid elements even offer a degree of competitive social environment for those who again might not have done well in a real sports/competition setting.
The gameplay doesn't strike me as mysteriously addictive, not any more than having fun with people is "addictive" compared to being bored and lonely.
Just say no to MMO's! Unless you dont have to pay for them... free crack is fine.
I quit WoW for a total of 2 months, and now im back on it again. Killing horde makes me feel all warm inside after a long day at the office.
i mean it gets to the point where you can construct a simulation thats more important to the player than eating,sleeping, working, spending time with the kids and all that crap. i have an addiction, its smoking, but it dosent keep me from functioning as a human and taking care of my daily tasks, people i know have called in sick from work just to play wow, thats a little ridiculous if you ask me.
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I took that as a compairison bettween the two, citing that smoking had less negative impact. btw death isn't the only bad part of smoking (Please don't smoke.. s'bad for you!
oh, btw Ash, (when I played that trial) your character acctually became weaker if you played too long.
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MMOs are especially addictive. They are engineered around Pavlov's findings, random reward patterns for a repetitive action condition the subject to repeat those actions even if the rewards get fewer and fewer or completely stop. If Blizzard knew this I don't know but I do know that Raph Koster is well aware of these principles as it was his article that spelt this out. You are conditioned to release adrenaline when killing a monster because sometimes you gain positive feedback in the form of items, levelups or whatever else your game can give out. This can obviously lead to a psychological or chemical addiction.
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That applys to every sport in the world. "reward patterns for a repetitive action condition the subject to repeat those actions" = any game
MMOs are especially addictive. They are engineered around Pavlov's findings, random reward patterns for a repetitive action condition the subject to repeat those actions even if the rewards get fewer and fewer or completely stop. If Blizzard knew this I don't know but I do know that Raph Koster is well aware of these principles as it was his article that spelt this out. You are conditioned to release adrenaline when killing a monster because sometimes you gain positive feedback in the form of items, levelups or whatever else your game can give out. This can obviously lead to a psychological or chemical addiction.
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you're not describing features of MMOs here. that positive feedback for a repetitive task could apply to any traditional RPG, action RPG, or anything similar.
Verm made a lot of good points about the social value of MMOs. This is odd for me to say since I'm used to poking fun at MMO denizens (I've never played WoW myself and have no desire to), but at the end of the day I'll readily admit that friendships made online are as legitimate as those made "realtime".
I think that the very real value of the social relationships players form and keep in their MMO worlds is what keeps them coming back. 'course having never played (none of my friends or coworkers do either) it's just a theory.
I really think people throw around the word 'addicted' far too easily. I spent hours last night (and the day before) playing a strategy game called Silent Storm. It's a game I very much enjoy, and most of the reason I played yesterday was in order to make my characters (due to it's rpg element) more powerful and get to the next upgrade in weapons.
However, the whole time, it was a conscious choice. I was 'sucked into' it, sure, but I was doing it because it was fun and I'd already decided I wished to waste those few hours instead of working on something more important.
I know this isn't a perfect example, and I have never played an mmo for a long period of time, but what I'm trying to get at is that people play videogames for fun. They choose to play them, they stop playing them when they want to, and, aside from maybe being kinda' bored (or needing to find another hobby) they don't suffer from any kind of withdrawl when they quit.
Doesn't seem like a real issue to me. I'm sure people can get addicted to videogames, but I'd say 90% of videogame 'addicts' are just losers who can't take responsibility for choosing to waste their time on a game.
The rewards are also more easily identifiable and apparent to other players. People can "see" your progress faster and the sense of accomplishment and gratification easier to gain as well. I suppose more work would have to go into exercising in order to look good than it would be to get mega paldons of awesomeness, and it would cost quite a bit to purchase a new car than it would be to get that 5000 gold epic mount that can move .0001 times faster than the other horse you have. And why show off to a small circle of friends when tons of people can see just how cool you are with your epic loot as you run back and forth to the auction house hourly?
You cant really compare a game such as that to an MMO to well anyway. The game doesnt require you to pay monthly and the stats arent globally kept and compared to other players so that you can monitor your progress in the game.
Other things are subscription based too, like cable tv and the internet. But you can really do much with cable tv other than watch and the internet has too many ways to offer interactivy that dont monitor or even promote progress or accomplishment.
You cant really compare a game such as that to an MMO to well anyway. The game doesnt require you to pay monthly and the stats arent globally kept and compared to other players so that you can monitor your progress in the game.
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Good point, but I believe, even with what you said, my statement about it's being a choice still stands. Sure, the people selling the game are trying to manipulate their subscribers, but I expect that from almost any product. I still don't think that makes it 'addictive.'
I have played MMO's, although I do suppose I'm a terrible example, having not really enjoyed any of them.
"A clinical psychologist, Orzack is founder and coordinator of Computer Addiction Services at McLean Hospital in Newton, Mass., and is also an assistant professor"
She's the founder. "Computer Addiction Services" is her schtick. Her angle. Unless she's actually talked to and diagnosed a fair cross section of the game playing community, her stats are inherently going to be slanted because the people she is talking to are coming to her about their problem. Videogame criticism is her bread and butter. Ring any bells? Jack Thompson? Joe Liebermann?
I'm not saying the problem does or does not exist, I'm just pointing out that there is a potential conflict of interest here. And also the great point brought up in the thread that if people are not engaged in interactive entertainment they are more than likely engaged in passive entertainment.
I also know an assistant professor at Stanford and he's a tool. Not that this doctor is necessarily a tool but there's a reason she's an "assistant".
btw, what is normal & active to you?
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Um, having meaningful social relationships, having sex, companionship, attempting to keep reasonably fit and healthy. God forbid, going outside. Having several interests other just ONE. Experiencing all the the things life has to offer other than being plugged into a fucking pc.
And Im not buying the argument that if people weren't obsessed (I'll refrain from using the addiction word seeing as it causes so much contention) with WoW they'd be hooked on drugs or TV. You cant watch TV on your pc at work and Alt tab back to a work application when your boss walks by, and I dont know many folks that literally spend entire weekends watching television.
Listen, Im not saying Blizzard are the devil for making WoW. It's a great game. I'm simply saying that the woman has a point. There are a shit load of people that are hooked on playing. Almost everyone I know that plays it does just about nothing else with their lives because of the amount of time they put into it. And like I said before, i think that's fucking sad.
From a psych angle, id say the addicive nature comes from 2 things: 1. the fact that the character is a permanent (or semi) representation of YOU, and as such its really an extention of your own ego in a big way and 2. in concert with that, like Cochtl mentioned, its a matter of easily definable rewards and progression, all of which makes you more "valuable". So, for example, in the game, you KNOW if you spend another 2 hours grinding murlocs youll hit lvl 40, which means youll get your mount which means that this extention of your ego, ie yourself, will become obviously and visibly "better" in the game world. Compare that to real life where you can go jogging every night and not see a n appreciable result for weeks.
Man, I find this stuff really interesting. We're heading into some pretty crazy times.
Calling it an addition doesn't let you get to the core of the problem for those who are actually being affected negatively by their play habits. In a world where it is almost against the law to tell your kids no or try to teach them patients and moderation its no wonder we have "profesionals" tossing out the word addiction as much as they do. It's not the persons fault they can't balance themselves out its something chemical, or the fault of someone trying to manipulate them. But then promoting self moderation doesn't get your name in the news. I guess it is easier to round off all the corners in the world than actually teach people walking into sharp things is bad.
Lets see, the average American home is surrounded by miles of Suburbia, endless cul-de-sac's, where the most interesting thing you have to look at are yard gnomes IF you're lucky. Or go inside and escape to some place where something actually happens. It's not addiction, its the product of a bad city planning. There will be plenty of time for yard gnome staring when I have one foot in the grave.
When you get home from work and your choices are;
- Watch TV which is more commercials and re-runs than TV. Even during the actual program half the screen is taken up with ads.
- Go outside and stare at the pavement, provided it is not raining.
- Climb back into the car I just spent 2hrs in, trying to get home and go some place where I can be around other people but not actually have to interact with them.
- Take up a hobby like painting, oh watch it you might enjoy doing that and spend more time painting than actually filling out your quota of yard gnome staring. Ut-Oh if you aren't careful you might spend more time starring at the blue yard gnome and not the red.
so really if they want to "fix" something they need to focus less on the big bag of money and media sensation that is Blizzard and more on the problems of poor city planning and the troubles it creates.
We have more problems in soicity than what games
Why do so many people want such escapisms today? It could very well show a greater socialogical problem with the world today as we now use virtual to communicate and work with one another versus honest to goodness interpersonal face to face. The culture we live in is not healthy, and we arent given the neccessary role models to find balance. From day one at birth its "consume, consume, consume" thrown at us from the world. X or Y "feel goods" take over for human interaction.
That high we get when we reach a goal or item, but then its gone and we seek the next item to "feel" it again Its a never ending cycle that never leads to a person growing emotionally versus becoming stuck in a loop of this pleasure high. With the inability to relate to others caused by this, we blockade ourselves from sympathizing or even helping one another. We do this by distancing from others by citing lazy or other forms of dehumunization into stereotypes versus a individuals.
We forget in this rush of planned marketing (Verm, Im sure Blizzard wasnt specifically researching making the game "addictive" to the degree listed by professional help. However, you would have a very hard time to prove to me that some of the developers inside of it didn't understand the modern strategies of marketing which has been continually refined with clinical psychological tests). Creating that pleasure high, which leads to another and another.
All in all I just want to say though I think a very important theme is missed in such dicussions that doesnt allow us all to become more aware. WOW isn't the problem. The addicted player isnt either. They are both symptoms. Lets talk about the cause of this.
Um, having meaningful social relationships, having sex, companionship, attempting to keep reasonably fit and healthy. God forbid, going outside. Having several interests other just ONE. Experiencing all the the things life has to offer other than being plugged into a fucking pc.
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Interesting... I have some thoughts on that, but.. it's nother issue.
Again, I've never whitnessed someone go to that extent. No one here has questions if someone going to that degree is bad. The point is that many of us think it's the exception not the rule.
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Listen, Im not saying Blizzard are the devil for making WoW. It's a great game. I'm simply saying that the woman has a point. There are a shit load of people that are hooked on playing. Almost everyone I know that plays it does just about nothing else with their lives because of the amount of time they put into it. And like I said before, i think that's fucking sad.
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But the lady in questions IS saying it's Blizzard's fault. You don't buy that idea that it's the person's fault, but I find the fact that the example that she used was someone who had family issues FIRST, very suspect.
Here's a question: If it's a great game and you don't think Bizzard is the devil, what is going on that is wrong?
I also think that most peoples lives are pretty shitty. Why not play a game where you can be something? even if it is in a digital world. The person that is a level 60 hunter with all their epic gear is at a way higher status then they probably ever would be in real life. It makes them feel good to be recognized.
I do agree that when I get home, my choices are fairly limited because its allready 7-8ish and a lot of stuff is going to be closed soon, so its mostly indoors activities at that point. But hanging out with my girlfriend watching a movie is more productive then me playing WoW and her sitting on the couch by herself.
I know friends that have turned down going out becuase they promised their guild they would do a 40 man raid.
the thing that is wrong is that people are no longer living out their own lives but are instead playing their character on WoW.
for instance, console games have multiplayer. I can call a few friends and they can come over, we can drink and play some guitar hero or whatever. With WoW, people turn down going out just so they can do a quest or get another level or do a raid.
Edit: As one of the few people on this board with a mental umm speciality thats not afraid to blurp it out. This may give a inside viewpoint also lacking. With OCD, I could very well see this becoming a addiction for me. The thing is I have the previous experience and knowledge to understand this manipulation put upon me. Since I work at extremes most times, I cannot be one of those people who cite that a person can do anything in moderation. So thus, I simply do not play, smoke, or drink things that could lead to such. OCD and such anxiety types need that intervention and interaction of others to help things from going to far. Again, as Im explaining above, this society we live in is no longer the small village. Everyone is not getting that same degree as in time past. Im not a luddite, but I do think its neccessary that these things are discussed. Knowledge is power.
When I play GW, I invite my friend over on the weekends, we get lunch, play some, get dinner, play some more and he goes home. sometimes we go do something else or whatnot. I LOVE multiplayer games that involve 2 or more ppl in 1 room.
As for the suburban spraw, I don't know if I agree. I mean you could probably meet someone in your neighborhood and just hang out and talk.
With WoW, people turn down going out just so they can do a quest or get another level or do a raid.
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This is very true. I saw this happen to a friend of mine a while back - he used to go out a lot with friends, have a good time etc... now he hardly ever goes out except to get cheap crappy snack food and bottles of beer, and just sits there playing WoW, drinking beer and eating pot noodles instead of doing something useful with his time.
Darksun: Why does it have to be "people you know" before you'll believe it?
I also think that most peoples lives are pretty shitty. Why not play a game where you can be something? even if it is in a digital world. The person that is a level 60 hunter with all their epic gear is at a way higher status then they probably ever would be in real life. It makes them feel good to be recognized.
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I think that's terrible. If people have "shitty" lives, they need to figure out what make them so and learn to fix them. Self-worth and a healthy ego need to come from within, not through some digital proxy with uber raid gear. The reason I stopped playing MMORPGs I because I can't bear to be around that sort of thing
Your level 60 hunter exists only on the computer; your sense of self is within you every moment of the day.
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With WoW, people turn down going out just so they can do a quest or get another level or do a raid.
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This is very true. I saw this happen to a friend of mine a while back - he used to go out a lot with friends, have a good time etc... now he hardly ever goes out except to get cheap crappy snack food and bottles of beer, and just sits there playing WoW, drinking beer and eating pot noodles instead of doing something useful with his time.
Darksun: Why does it have to be "people you know" before you'll believe it?
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I understand Mop is talking about extreme cases here but man there's an awful lot of hate for people who opt to spend time playing games rather than do conventionally-accepted things. Should we really be so guilty over doing something we might enjoy? A whole lot of modern society wants to make gaming guilt-worthy, it's saddening to hear the same voice speaking from within the community itself.
Again I understand the distinction between an avid gamer and someone who neglects everything else. I'm just curious about why people automatically assume that game-playing is "a waste", "unimportant", equivalent to "doing nothing", or some other guilty pleasure.
When I palyed WoW, I would stay on and stay up late all night, to level up get skills level up professions, etc.
I dont know why it was appealing, but it was. Im glad I stopped though.
There's a difference between enjoying a thing and indulging to an unhealthy degree. I like cake and ice cream, but I still feel bad for people who gorge themselves on junk food to the point of obesity.