episodic content blasted by epic
polycounter lvl 19
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/5168320.stm
money money money ~
my thoughts: spend more time on making good games, not moaning about graphics.
money money money ~
my thoughts: spend more time on making good games, not moaning about graphics.
Replies
well to them, it just means more money, because of their spinnable, monotnous, lemming fans that just want to see what the next obvious cliffhanger is about, then the next, and so on
I remember Duke Nukem Manhattan Project was said to have this same exact "episodic" idea back in 2001 when it was previewed, but they happened to drop that in the end and stuck with the good ol' shareware method that works.
As for episodes, one problem is that if a game tanks you aren't even going to see the end of the storyline. Another problem is the diminishing userbase, each episode can only be bought by those who finished the previous one unless you put some heavy constraints on the story. Even among those some would just not buy another one. Then there's the problem that an episode could suck bad enough to alienate the majority of your playerbase, how are you going to get them back?
I won't buy HL2Ep1 because I haven't finished HL2 (and I'm not going to). If it was HL3* I might consider it because I could still follow what was going on as a sequel is usually developed in a way that makes sure new players can get into the game easily (or at least I could understand HL2 without having understood a word of the storyline of HL1, if there even was one). An episode doesn't really have the time to introduce new players to the concept.
Beyond Good & Evil and Shenmue are examples of games that were designed with a sequel in mind but won't be getting one because of their bad sales. Yet another reason to make sure your game has a conclusion and not just an ending that basicaly says "buy the sequel!".
*) I am aware that Valve says the eps will be HL3 but eps and a standalone game are different things.
I'll sum up the article for anyone not wanting to look past his bloated ego and gigantanormous head.
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Episodic content will fail because Epic is making gears of war. I Mark Rein claim media center stage as my own personal soap box. Oh yeah and GEARS OF WAR will eat all of the lamers money so just stop making games.
kk bye bye loves and kisses,
Mark Rein, Media Whore
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Maybe a company needs to adjust its business model and instead of releasing one episode and then working on the next. They need to FINISH a series (3-5 episodes) and then release them slowly over time as they build another 2-3 bonus episodes. SHOCK HORROR, GOOD GOD could someone actually give customers what they want on a schedule that doesn't leave them twisting in the wind? I think they might be able to. I guess Mark Rein isn't up for the task, pity Epic is a company that could pull it off well and has the cash to blaze the trail and set the bar high, cornering the market.
Tell you what Mark Rein, you stick to making a nice engine and keeping your cake-hole shut. The rest of us will use it to make episodic content and mods. Really buddy stop trying to make yourself look cool by flining poo at the latest buzz words. Microsoft is leading a large push for Episodic content, don't go running down your bussiness partner. If you don't agree with it, just keep it to yourself and safeguard yourself if you think it could hurt you. But don't shoot your mouth off trying to grab some press. You'll just end up with a Bungie complex and the next thing you know you'll be quoted as saying stupid things like "Art is LAW" or "MORE LINES MEANS MORE DETAIL". It would be a horrible end to such a great company to be remembered by your big mouth instead of the great games it makes.
I do agree that Intel screwed the PC newer gamer market with its crappy intagrated video cards. I can't count how many times I hear "but I bought this computer and just wanted to play this little game" while doing support for Atari. After 30min of explaining to the customer they finally where privy to what we all know. I don't know a single PC gamer worth thier spit that doesn't know what a video card is how important a good one is. Most of them build thier own systems or know where to go to get a good set up.
You could say his engine/company did just as much damage to the PC market as Intel did. Sure great graphics are nice but you really want to impress me. Give me those graphics on a p3 500mhz with a 16mb video card. Then I will bow before the master. Its not always about bigger faster stronger, sometimes its about hitting the most fans. Which is why I think Epic is in bed with MS and Mark Rein is all over the 360.
That said, I'm not so sure if I do like episodic content myself. Haven't played Ep1, though I have HL2, but from what I've heard, it seems awfully focused on creating as much cliffhangers and questions as possible, while answering none. Rather poor, storyline wise. Furthermore, Ep1 also appears to offer only 4,5 hours of content (on average), and while the cost-playtime ration may be as much as it is for most games these days, you'd be playing on the same old engine, fighting the same old combine, in the same old city, with pretty much the same old story. In short, it isn't innovative in the slightest.
Though, personally, I'm not much a fan of sequels either. Multiple endings are so much cooler, and I'd like to fight some new enemies - Take Halo series. Halo2 is essentially Halo, you fight the same enemies, it's still the same plot going on, and if you want a full story, you'll HAVE to play all three games.
Ok, that much for my full-of-my-self-rant.
As for episodes, one problem is that if a game tanks you aren't even going to see the end of the storyline. Another problem is the diminishing userbase, each episode can only be bought by those who finished the previous one unless you put some heavy constraints on the story. Even among those some would just not buy another one. Then there's the problem that an episode could suck bad enough to alienate the majority of your playerbase, how are you going to get them back?
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It is only natural that episodic games will use the same tricks as a television series. That is how these companies make their money, they have to keep people coming back for new episodes. It is just a new way of playing games. You wouldn't compare a television series to a major studio movie would you?
The games developer said the current model of releasing episodic content in the form of fully-fledged sequels was the least risky model for the industry.
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I don't get it. How is spending 2-4 years developing a game less risky than only spending 6 months. At least with episodic content they don't have to gamble the entire company's future in one crap shoot.
if so can you take a photo? he might take it up in a legal matter...
They need to FINISH a series (3-5 episodes) and then release them slowly over time as they build another 2-3 bonus episodes.
I wouldn't say that concept is foreign to Epic. After all, they were one of the big companies in the shareware era where episodes were commonplace (but stories were so thin and superfluous that you didn't have to play the preceding episodes to understand the next one), I remember Epic Megagames as the big rival to Apogee. They did break games up in parts and allow you to buy each part separately or the whole thing in a bundle (first episode was always free). I'd guess Rein knows more about that than most other developers.
Most TV series are made by the season so if it tanks at least the season will still be complete and most story arcs will be resolved. Also production times are shorter, they don't wait half a year between episodes.
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Indeed. Making a direct comparison between the games industry and other industries is probably not a good idea. Unfortunately it seems to happen all too often. The games industry might borrow ideas from film and television but it is fundamentally different.
Then again, I have yet to see exactly how it plays out.
Edit: I guess you could draw a parallel with the sequel problem in the games industry. Sequels tend to get made not because the original creators want to make them but rather because a publisher thinks it can cash in on an already existing fan base.
Frank the Avenger
We won't be seeing a full-on Single player title from Valve for a while (like, 4-5 years'ish). They're set on small development teams doing small projects. The next biggest thing we'll see from Valve, I reckon, is more of a technological update than a title - whether it's new features for Steam, Hammer, the rendered within Source, etc. etc.
For now they'll continue having small teams doing small projects: CS:S/DoD:S maps, HL:2 episodes, tech updates. TF2 will be a title we can buy seperately in stores or on Steam, thats a given, but it won't be any different from CS:S or DoD:S in terms of production value or content. That isn't to say though that art style, sounds, video filtering features, etc. etc. won't be unique to TF2, similar to how DoD:S now has film-grain video filters.
That's my 2 cents.
not the only opinion but he is the vice president of epic, thats some big guns right there
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And yet his opinion is just that, his opinion. It's completely innacurate to say something like 'Epic blasts episodic content' when one man who happens to work for Epic does so in an address. This was not an official announcement by the company, just his opinion.
Frank the Avenger
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not the only opinion but he is the vice president of epic, thats some big guns right there
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And yet his opinion is just that, his opinion. It's completely innacurate to say something like 'Epic blasts episodic content' when one man who happens to work for Epic does so in an address. This was not an official announcement by the company, just his opinion.
Frank the Avenger
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it's not really the sort of thing epic would officially announce though, and would be kinda strange if they did.
so give us the scoop! is he living in a goldfish bowl or does he call the shots?
When a VP of a company talks to croud of thousands about what he thinks the direction of whatever is his opinion, I think it's often taken as the companies opinion too, just like any other talk given by VP's from games companies. Might be wrong of me to write that epic as a whole has this opinion, however thats the image he has projected at the confrence.
I'm not speaking for Epic as a whole either, this is likewise merely my own opinion
r.
- accepted the gman's offer and went into temporal stasis
OR
- declined his offer, and were left to face that rather large Xen army.... which isnt really an ending, but moreso a "game over" without the red screen.
And I must agree with Ror completely,
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I personally don't care whether its a new IP, sequel or episodic update as long as it's a fun game.
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If I found hl2 ep1 or sin episodes to be unenjoyable, I'd probably have the same bitter attitude towards episodic releases as some members. However, I must add to Ror's comment by saying that episodic content, as well as any game, should be fairly priced both to be competitive and to be representative of the scale of game the player is purchasing. If Ep1 was priced like HL2, I seriously doubt anyone would even give it a second look. However, Valve priced it (and offered a preorder discount) at such a level that I believe was well understated to the scale of gameplay and story the player received; we got a bargain in my opinion.
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The low-cost chips are incapable of dealing with the graphics and computational power required for modern games.
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But they are still capable of dealing with FUN games. Honestly, I don't want to buy another graphics card.
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"A new, boxed game has entirely new characters, content, storylines and an experience you have not had before. Developers have spent years making it."
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Space marines, big guns, aliens, carpal tunnel. What a new and exciting experience.
This is the guy who bashed the Wii controller, and is now regretting his words.
The integrated chips will barely get a decent framerate at Quake 3. You can't have any complexity with those. Not even a basic RTS will work.
Space marines, big guns, aliens, carpal tunnel. What a new and exciting experience.
Yes but with episodes they couldn't even decide to drop that theme.