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  • Joshua Stubbles
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    Joshua Stubbles polycounter lvl 19
    Hehehe
    That's great laugh.gif

    Early versions of the macOS copied a lot of ideas from Windows as well, so there's not much reason to pound MS over Vista's resemblence to OSX.

    Love the vid, though smile.gif
  • hawken
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    hawken polycounter lvl 19
    [ QUOTE ]
    Hehehe
    That's great laugh.gif

    Early versions of the macOS copied a lot of ideas from Windows as well, so there's not much reason to pound MS over Vista's resemblence to OSX.

    Love the vid, though smile.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    might wanna check but I was under the impression macos was built on Xerox technology and windows came out a bit later after everyone was sick of dos.
  • sledgy
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    sledgy polycounter lvl 18
    See "Pirates of Silicon Valley"

    Jobs/Apple purchased the 'GUI' tech idea from Xerox and made vast improvements to it and contracted with MS to do "Paint" for the Mac Classic. Crafty Gates covertly developed "Windows" while in the employ of Apple and had access to the GUI. One of the most notorious copyright infringement cases - I have no idea how Gates got away with it. Maybe because he's Satan.
  • Joao Sapiro
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    Joao Sapiro sublime tool
    definately not going to get in my system eh!
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    So is that an official MS talk with corresponding OSX videos added, showing that OSX already has these options since a while? Or is it a complete fake? Or the real thing?

    Whatever system, these wobbly, wavey, stupid windows moves are... pointless.
  • sledgy
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    sledgy polycounter lvl 18
  • Joshua Stubbles
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    Joshua Stubbles polycounter lvl 19
    [ QUOTE ]
    So is that an official MS talk with corresponding OSX videos added, showing that OSX already has these options since a while? Or is it a complete fake? Or the real thing?

    Whatever system, these wobbly, wavey, stupid windows moves are... pointless.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yes, that's an official WindowsVista presentation, but showing that OSX already had these features. And yes, the wavy/wobbly windows are stupid. I like Vista's slicker looking interface and features, but I'm not fond of the whole 3D-window thing they're offering. Granted you don't have to actually USE it, but I still find it stupid.

    Things I do like, which OSX has, are things like ObjectDocks and widgets. I currently use some ObjectDesktop apps to get those features on WinXP.
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 19
    watched it with the sound off but am I right in guessing that windows will have an expose like feature? Since upgrading from OS9 to OSX here at work it has really increased my productivity (damn, that sounded really lame, I've been an office worker way too long now)
  • Vitor
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    Vitor polycounter lvl 18
    I know nothing about these strange things such as OS and all that crap, so i'm not that excited/disapointed with Vista features, i just don't care much... as long as windows allow me to do stuff i want i'm ok with that. I just hate the way Microsoft is being putting even more shit on each update. I don't want useless microsoft crap, lot's of native applications just to screw it all up, help menus, security popups when hanging around internet (aren't the security popups just as anoying as the spam ones?), idiot questions when plugin in new USB hardware, perhaps i don't care about security how much i should thought but ... simplicity, clean look, empty visual space, organization, fast UI ... is that asking too much?

    Wouldn't it be better 2 versions? one clean, nothing on it, and one full of that crap that microsoft loves to add for the america happy families?
  • Joshua Stubbles
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    Joshua Stubbles polycounter lvl 19
    Vitor - PC's account for at least 70% of the 'computer' market. All of those 'useless' apps you're talking about are absolutely needed for Joe and Jane Walmart, who have NO CLUE how to operate a computer. Like all PC apps, these features can be disabled by a person who knows how to run a pc.
  • Thegodzero
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    Thegodzero polycounter lvl 18
    Vass the fun part of a new instal is finding out just how much usless crap they put in it this time and then trying to remember how you disabled them the last time.

    Every time something breacks on my comp and i have to do a fresh instal i run into the pain of turning off the extra crap i dont want just so my comp can runn smooth again.
  • ElysiumGX
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    ElysiumGX polycounter lvl 18
    HAHA... Windows Vista is the best OS X marketing campaign Microsoft can offer. I'm interested in a Mac more than ever. Just in time for Bill to leave M$.

    [ QUOTE ]
    Early versions of the macOS copied a lot of ideas from Windows as well

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Examples? I was told early versions of Mac OS were out before windows, and the first successful system with a UI.

    [ QUOTE ]
    I have windows, I have an IPod. My windows has a delete key....where is the IPod's

    [/ QUOTE ]

    HAHA!
  • KDR_11k
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    KDR_11k polycounter lvl 18
    OSX advertising? I was thinking Linux here.
  • hawken
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    hawken polycounter lvl 19
    [ QUOTE ]
    watched it with the sound off but am I right in guessing that windows will have an expose like feature? Since upgrading from OS9 to OSX here at work it has really increased my productivity (damn, that sounded really lame, I've been an office worker way too long now)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    with the sound off... you missed the whole point of the video

    (yes us maccies have been enjoying these delights for a long time, glad you winnies are getting it "shoehorned" in. Although I have to say, none of those features really change the way I use computers, only expose is handy. Macs really are fucking basic machines to operate. I find windows has it's most basic features buried so deep it's a nightmare to change and turn off crap. Yet more call for mac osx to be released for ati + intel built pcs)
  • kat
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    kat polycounter lvl 17
    I've just realised something... A lot of what they showed in that vid was 'live', as in, info being fed in from the Internet. With the recent bombing of Net Neutrality I wonder how much *access* to the information those little tools use will suffer as a result....
  • Vitor
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    Vitor polycounter lvl 18
    yeas vass, as i said i don't know much about this stuff, so being possible to disable all that crap isn't as simple as that for me, i would say i count as an average Joe on this one laugh.gif But the thing that really bothers me as it is now, it's slow UI which, me as a very unorganazied person, makes my workspace as shitty as possible. I usually find myself dumping all the files i need for Cg work, as texture files, models, *.obj ,references on workspace, and just realise i have to clean it when i don't have a single free space ... just to avoid clicking hundreads of times on photoshop "save as" window, and then clic another hundread to load it on 3dsmax. Perhaps it's me that don't now how to work fast or the better way to do stuff on my PC ... but shouldn't that be the main Microsoft objective? solve average users problems? And not make all versions of Windows for noobs, which pro users can optimize?
  • thomasp
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    thomasp hero character
    yep that is my problem with it, too. theoretically, you can turn off a lot of the stuff that comes with windows by default. but it requires quite some knowledge, often additional tools and in some cases it leads to strange errors and limitations that seem totally unrelated.

    i had to vomit alot when i went from win2000 to XP (which i had to - for multicore-support). such an annoying beast to make usable. that stuff eats many resources too. same on osx in my opinion. dog slow UI, that's unfortunately non-standard and can't talk to other unix-clients, a choice of style over substance. all that on an OS that consumes massive amounts of RAM for useless gimmicks and offers little options for customizing, heck, you can't even swap the UI colors or fontsizes - at least not in tiger! which genius came up with that?.

    sure, non-computer-literate people will probably like all those assistants and pre-defined profiles and whatnot. but for the more experienced users, both OS'ses should come in a "no frills" version, definitely.
    if someone kept windows nt4 up to date (usb and the likes), i'd have no problem returning to that one. leanest useable windows version imo. smile.gif
  • ElysiumGX
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    ElysiumGX polycounter lvl 18
    sounds like you two 'experienced users' should try a lean version of Linux.
  • thomasp
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    thomasp hero character
    and what shall "we" do with it? play tux-racer? wink.gif
  • ElysiumGX
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    ElysiumGX polycounter lvl 18
    Honestly, that joke is as old and stupid as 'you can't right click on a Mac'. laugh.gif
  • Kraftwerk
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    Kraftwerk polycounter lvl 19
    [ QUOTE ]
    and what shall "we" do with it? play tux-racer? wink.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No play UT2004 and do some Stuff in Maya and hopefully more in
    the future when software developers realize that a lot poeple
    use Linux. Yeah for Ubuntu. Apple ? I like Apple and OSX and
    before i ever gonna install Vista im gonna get an Apple. Heck
    who needs an OS that has the same system specs as Doom 3 ?
  • thomasp
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    thomasp hero character
    uh, joke? where are the apps on linux? what to do with it, work-related? yeah, if i was a houdini TD, or some other ultra-specialized worker ant in a huge pipeline, i'd probably be all over it, for more mainstream usage, it's a long way until it'll be there. and i remember me saying that in '99 already. at least they now offer distro's with long-term support, not only that change-your-kernel-every-three-months-or-be-incompatible crap. anyway, this box will be kept vista-free, surely smile.gif

    what was expose in OSX again? the bunch of little helpers that could be switched on instantly?
  • Rick Stirling
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    Rick Stirling polycounter lvl 18
    naw, expose is the feature where you get a large thumbnail of every running app. hover over the one you want to bring into focus. sounds simple, sounds pointless, but it's truely fantastic.


    It's usually set to screen corner - slide your mouse to the corner, slide your mouse to the app you want.
  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    What's wrong with alt-tab? smile.gif
  • KDR_11k
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    KDR_11k polycounter lvl 18
    It's less comfortable when you're trying to quickly switch over from one handed browsing...
  • SHEPEIRO
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    SHEPEIRO polycounter lvl 17
    there goes the tone like a pebble vanishing into a deep well when will it hit the bottom0....
  • Rick Stirling
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    Rick Stirling polycounter lvl 18
    Mop - nothing. But thats all you're used to. It like that Honda advert - why invent the lightbulb when candles are OK etc. wink.gif

    Once you use it, you won't want to be without it. FACT.

    I've jsut tried alt tabbing on my PC here. Hit ALT-TAB, keep alt pressed and tab through the samll icon options. Slow. Expose? Flick mouse pointer to corner of screen, get a screenful of my apps, flick mouse pointer to the app.
  • ElysiumGX
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    ElysiumGX polycounter lvl 18
    [ QUOTE ]
    and i remember me saying that in '99 already.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sounds like you're still stuck in 99. Linux plays games.
  • Marine
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    Marine polycounter lvl 19
    [ QUOTE ]
    Mop - nothing. But thats all you're used to. It like that Honda advert - why invent the lightbulb when candles are OK etc. wink.gif

    Once you use it, you won't want to be without it. FACT.

    I've jsut tried alt tabbing on my PC here. Hit ALT-TAB, keep alt pressed and tab through the samll icon options. Slow. Expose? Flick mouse pointer to corner of screen, get a screenful of my apps, flick mouse pointer to the app.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    thats on windows, it's called the taskbar.
  • thomasp
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    thomasp hero character
    one handed browsing. hehehe, sounds shady. at least clean your keyboard once in a while.

    ElysiumGX: that's great to hear but i believe it was quite obvious that my only concern is apps. games -> console for me anyway. so either i am stuck in '99 or linux hasn't advanced a lot on the desktop since then. it played UT and quake back then, too, btw.
  • Mister Sentient
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    Mister Sentient polycounter lvl 18
  • sonic
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    sonic polycounter lvl 18
    All the Mac has going for it is style. It's expensive, it uses proprietary hardware, and it doesn't have nearly the software database of Windows.

    I hear two "reasons" all the time as to why Macs are so mega leet. The first is always, "No viruses or pr0nware!" Clearly this comes from the dolts who can't properly protect themselves with FREE programs on Windows. It's so simple! At my old job we setup Ad-aware, spyware blaster, and spybot for our customers, and they never came back in with spyware! I haven't had any antivirus or antispyware software on my computer for years, and I haven't gotten a single thing! Stop going to douchemydonkey.net and clicking the ads!

    The second reason I always hear is that the OS is so much easier to work with, and the UI is amazing, and all these cool features like expose make everything faster. Bullshit! I worked on a Mac for a couple of months, and between the BS of thumbnails and sliding windows and all this fancy shit, I realised that a simple taskbar defeated the purpose of everything.

    I think a lot of Mac owners bought Macs, and then they thought, "Well, I have this mediocre computer here I can do a couple of things on... I can't really game on it.. ummm... I like the mouse though..." It's about that time that it kicks in. You just paid a shitload of money for a gimped computer. Then comes the denial stage, when they flood the internet and digg.com with messages of praise for Mac and how awesome it is.

    That's just my theory though smile.gif
  • Illusions
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    Illusions polycounter lvl 18
    All I can say is I hate the new Mac commercials, simply due to the fact that they are exaggerating, and misleading.

    I want to see one where the PC guy puts on a brightly colored suite and tie, and the Mac guy is like "What are you doing?" and the PC guy just replies "Upgrading, changing my style". And a tagline like "PCs, whatever you build them to be".

    Then before that the Mac ads also pissed me off with the whole intel being trapped in dull boring boxes until the intel-mac came along. Last I checked PCs didn't all come in white/brushed aluminum only, with only a handful of different case-styles...
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 19
    ok redoing my post :P

    I'm not a fan of the Mac commercials, they seem very condescending. Sure, Microsoft spreads the FUD around pretty liberally but their commercials are all warm and snuggly (look at all the amazing things you can do in windows) so apple comes off looking like jerks to the general public.

    The whole Mac experience is just smoother the majority of mac fans started out on macs, it never really feels like it's you vs. the computer. We're all grizzled PC veterans who managed to tame the beast so we don't get it. I manage about a couple hundred or so OSX workstations with no antivirus or firewall besides the company proxy and we have a cable modem hooked up to a wireless router for when that needs to be bypassed. We've got remote desktop and SSH enabled on all our workstations with no viruses or security comprimises yet (all workstations are in user mode). I will never work a PC tech job again, what a nightmare! This is 6 years of PC tech experience against my 2 years Mac tech experience.

    If I could afford a new power mac (if they are still going to call the intel based ones that), a copy of adobe creative suite and Maya I would buy it.
  • rooster
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    rooster mod
    just got round to watching this.. man it seems completely aimed at someone who is not me. Shitloads of fancy gizmos that I don't want, the ability to piss about cropping pictures in explorer, and woop it saves a copy of things I edit. Don't most people do that? How is moving slideshow pictures putting me back in control of my pc? It feels more like I'm losing control of the bloody thing.
  • ElysiumGX
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    ElysiumGX polycounter lvl 18
    I'm very tempted to get my parents and grandparents a Mac now, just so I don't have to constantly play PC tech support with them. You shouldn't have to be A+ certified to operate a "personal" computer. Home Edition my ass!
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 19
    [ QUOTE ]
    I'm very tempted to get my parents and grandparents a Mac now, just so I don't have to constantly play PC tech support with them. You shouldn't have to be A+ certified to operate a "personal" computer. Home Edition my ass!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah, I swear my mom uses some kind of bizarro logic when it comes to security prompts: She always manages to block Thunderbird, firefox and other windows functions but always allows sketchy spyware programs.

    Oh yeah, I also defend myself against the rabid Mac users who look at my PC laptop and sneer.
  • Joshua Stubbles
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    Joshua Stubbles polycounter lvl 19
    The reason Mac's has very rare instances of malware and virus' is very simple. The OS is NOT POPULAR in a large scale. PC's and Windows comprise of such a huge portion of the market share, why the hell would hackers bother with the little guy? If Mac's and OSX where as widespread and popular as Windows, I gaurantee 100% that it would be riddled with just as many trojans and virus'.

    As for Vista, I'm diggin it. I got it installed to the second partition of my laptop. It uses about 700-800MB in resources, but keep in mind it's beta. WinXP used about 450MB during it's beta, and the final version uses not even 1/2 of that. Vista will use around 400-512MB total I think. That's not that bad at all. I found no issues with UI lag, or any other slowdowns. The OS is shaping up quite nice. All of the bells and whistles can be turned off, so it's not exactly cluttering anything. I think it will be a good OS when it's done.
  • arshlevon
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    arshlevon polycounter lvl 18
    i like lots of stuff about the mac, but why oh why, if macs are so awesome, does Jobs' other company(PIXAR) use a linux pipeline?? i mean if you had a company that used computers and a company that made computers, then wouldnt you use the computers you made? wouldnt it be cheaper? wouldnt it make sense? no? are you sure? no? okay i see now....
  • hawken
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    hawken polycounter lvl 19
    [ QUOTE ]
    The reason Mac's has very rare instances of malware and virus' is very simple. The OS is NOT POPULAR in a large scale.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    that old chestnut eh?

    well, not really. on a mac it's upto you what you install by physically dragging what you downloaded to the applications folder. The only way to get a virus on a mac is to download it and drag the DMG into your applications folder.

    The obvious difference is that windows operates without the users say-so, with batch files, dll's and the like (which macosx has but are kept out of reach for the most part). You could write 10,000 virii for the mac, wouldn't change a thing.
  • hawken
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    hawken polycounter lvl 19
    [ QUOTE ]
    i like lots of stuff about the mac, but why oh why, if macs are so awesome, does Jobs' other company(PIXAR) use a linux pipeline?? i mean if you had a company that used computers and a company that made computers, then wouldnt you use the computers you made? wouldnt it be cheaper? wouldnt it make sense? no? are you sure? no? okay i see now....

    [/ QUOTE ]

    a lot of hotmail and other microsoft websites run on linux, your arguement that jobs isn't holding true to his brand is kinda off-centre, as linux is a tool for getting to the computers core power - not often a way of providing an easy operating system for your gran.

    macs can run linux in dual boot anyway, so they might be macs.
  • thomasp
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    thomasp hero character
    [ QUOTE ]
    i like lots of stuff about the mac, but why oh why, if macs are so awesome, does Jobs' other company(PIXAR) use a linux pipeline??

    [/ QUOTE ]

    probably because of it's heritage as an almost UNIX-only shop. linux is the OS that made it easy to migrate to when sun and sgi lost the technology race.

    the code is open so the tech staff can modify it, the important system libs have been ported or at least cloned, makes for rather easy ports of their custom tools - far easier than to e.g. windows. and it fits better than osx into existing UNIX environments, it's very similar to what they had before. plus you can probably find much more experienced UNIX coders with a film background than those familiar with OSX specialities.
    and - it runs on faster hardware, or at least it did until the recent switch to intel. besides on the mac until very recently you couldn't get a pro graphics card nor were the drivers of very high quality. and uh, apple support is probably no match for IBM, HP or BOXX.
  • Rick Stirling
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    Rick Stirling polycounter lvl 18
    [ QUOTE ]
    probably

    [/ QUOTE ].

    Aye. Probably.
  • sonic
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    sonic polycounter lvl 18
    [ QUOTE ]
    well, not really. on a mac it's upto you what you install by physically dragging what you downloaded to the applications folder. The only way to get a virus on a mac is to download it and drag the DMG into your applications folder.

    The obvious difference is that windows operates without the users say-so, with batch files, dll's and the like (which macosx has but are kept out of reach for the most part). You could write 10,000 virii for the mac, wouldn't change a thing.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's no different than a PC. Unless someone h4x0rz you and puts a virus on your computer, you have to choose to do something stupid. Usually that stupid thing involves a vulnerability in a web browser or downloading the wrong file. If Mac had a larger share, more of these random viruses would be universal binarys meant to fuck up a Mac. As far as your argument about batch files goes, you should look into AppleScript.
    As far as DLLs go, you're right. Macs CFM junk is a lot safer than DLLs, but it's still breakable.

    No OS is immune, and I think you'd be surprised at how fast the Mac would go down in flames if there was any real interest in hacking it. How many people do important things on a Mac compared to PC? If someone DID make 10,000 viruses for the Mac, things would change alright.
  • rooster
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    rooster mod
    If programs can install themselves because you don't know what security settings your browser or mail software should have, it just ain't the same as manually installing something dodgy.
  • PaK
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    PaK polycounter lvl 18
    people say Macs are so 'incredibly' user friendly but....I dont see it.

    I sit at a mac and I'm like an American with savings account *smirkz*

    I sat there for 20 mins trying to find out how to launch an app that had no shortcut on the desktop.

    How is dragging a disk to the trash to eject it 'user friendly?' Is that supposed to be intuitive?

    I think mac's and PC's are equal in their interaction design. That being....they both are lacking.

    interaction design is a tricky business. Simple enough flatten out the learning curve, yet powerful enough to enable power-usage.

    IDEO has the right idea. They treat design properly; with the respect it deserves. As does Valve.

    I think adobe had it down...they just keep changing things up...things that worked just fine origionally (arg!)

    -R
  • KDR_11k
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    KDR_11k polycounter lvl 18
    rooster: People will do anything a mail tells them. Hell, some viruses distribute themselves in password-protected ZIPs and tell the user to input the password. I have no doubt that you'd just have to tell the user to enter his admin password and he'd happily let you sudo your virus.
  • rooster
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    rooster mod
    I don't think all mail viruses involve someone following instructions in the email though, can't you get ones embedded in images that get loaded into memory?

    edit: and my firewall has stopped attempts from internet sites trying to install content before I'm sure.
    ninja edit pak! but I saw your toothbrush wisecrack tongue.gif
  • KDR_11k
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    KDR_11k polycounter lvl 18
    Only if you leave your system unpatched. I'm sure that if you never patched a Mac you'd just as easily get a virus (well, if anyone bothered to write a Mac virus).
  • Tulkamir
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    Tulkamir polycounter lvl 18
    So funny, the internet. The people on it will bash the big company no matter what, just because they are big. I can promise that if, 10 years down the road, MS was the small guy everyone would be bashing Mac.

    As for Vista, I'm looking forward to the thing, looks really good to me.

    (There is a public beta out for it right now if anyone is interested. I won't get it, but someone might. It's on the nvidia site.)
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