roe vs. wade for men
polycounter lvl 18
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/08/fatherhood.suit.ap/index.html
im with them, if a woman can choose to raise a child, have it, etc, then a man should have the choice to pay for its upbringing. which seems really weird coming from me because my dad owes like $60,000 in child support to my mom.
im with them, if a woman can choose to raise a child, have it, etc, then a man should have the choice to pay for its upbringing. which seems really weird coming from me because my dad owes like $60,000 in child support to my mom.
Replies
End result = child is here and needs to be taken care of financially. Be a fucking man and own up instead of trying to duck out on your obligation.
And secondly, Im pretty sure you cant get out of paying child support just bu disowning the kid...
In a case like that, I would certainly not want the child. Afterall, that would be why I wore a condom.
I think the man should still pay for the child support though, regardless. It's a part of you, you pay for it. You don't have to take part in it's life, but you're going to help raise it.
Astro, it's not always that cut and dry. You can wear a condom, and she can take birth control. With both of you taking precautions, she can STILL get pregnant. Sure, it doesn't happen often, but it can happen.
In a case like that, I would certainly not want the child. Afterall, that would be why I wore a condom.
I think the man should still pay for the child support though, regardless. It's a part of you, you pay for it. You don't have to take part in it's life, but you're going to help raise it.
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Ok, so you are reiterating my point but you just wanted to argue about it?
Aesir, yeah you can my girlfriends best friend is thinking of having her baby father sign his away so she wont have to deal with his shit anymore.
I guess as long as the dead beat dads are protected that's what counts though. Nevermind that there is a child that needs food clothing and shelter in this world now. Just so long as some unwilling father doesn't have to pay for it.
Astro, i want to see a world with out deadbeat parents, but i dont see that being the case with todays laws. As they are now they do a great job protecting the woman but also do a great job creating deadbeat dads. And deadbeat dad's are not good for either the kid or thr mother. As she will have to deal with the extra stress of having to squeeze the money out of them every time.
The best thing we could come up with would be an on/off drug for child birth. So that only when both partys agreed to wanting kids could they have kids. Birth control is close but still has the .01% of having a kid.
The other thing everyone seems to be confusing here is abortion isn't the only option. If she can't afford to raise the child, and he opts out of support, she has another choice; ADOPTION.
In my opinion, maybe women woudl be more responsible about sex if they thought he might opt out.
In my opinion, maybe women woudl be more responsible about sex if they thought he might opt out.
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Yea, then we would never get laid. WTF are you thinking?!?!?!
A small personal story to relate why:
My parents got divorced. We didnt want to live with our Mother, but the courts decided that for us. I lived with my extremely physically & mentally abusive Mother for the first 15 years of my life.(They were divorced when I was 8). When I was 15 I decided I was sick of it. While in Las Vegas on a summer trip to visit my Dad, 2 of my brothers and I decided we were not going back.
My Mom told my Father basically this: "You can keep them so long as you keep paying me the child support. The minute you stop paying I'll call the cops and tell them you kidnapped the kids".
Left with little choice, my Dad paid child support AND all the expenses of having us live with him until we were all 18.
I know 10 times more Deadbeat Moms than I do Deadbeat Dads, and frankly that term makes me sick.
A woman should bear FULL responsibility when SHE makes the choice to keep a child, against the fathers objections. Both parties bear the responsibility for contraception or to abstain. However abortion, adoption, whatever she has 100% of the power in the decision and in the court room and that is a smack in the face of justice and fairness in my opinion.
In Texas they will throw you in jail faster for non-payment than they will for murder, no questions asked. They are keeping tabs on how many guys are paying, when they are paying and if they are shirking.
Why can't they keep tabs on how the money is spent? Why can't all child support payments be deposited in a special checking account set up by the state that the mother gets to use? That way all child support checks would be for food, shoes, school supplies and the doctor. NOT FOR CASH!
I am firmly for abortion even though I personally find it in some cases wrong. I am firmly for child support payments, but the money just can't be tracked from one end of the pipe.
I think the system needs to be reformed.
It is awful that men currently have no legal recourse if they've unwillingly helped concieve a child, but loosening it up is very dangerous territory. Under what conditions would it be allowed? How long would a guy have to decide whether he wanted to be a father or not? How do you prevent some men from lying their way out of it (i.e. saying that they had done everything in their power not to get pregnant, but really had refused to wear a condom)?
Excellent idea, dukester. Though it seems to me that a lot of this wouldn't be necessary if there were some reliable method of male birth control, like a man pill. If it were available, would you guys take it?
Scoobydoofus: I'm not sure I get how your personal story is relevant to the article. In spite of the very morally reprehensible behaviour of your mother, if your father had been legally allowed to get out of paying child support it would set a legal precident that could open the door for any man with young children to cut and run. I don't think anybody wants that. I come from a divorced family too. In the 18 years since my mom left my dad, I doubt he's paid more than $1000 in child support for both me and my brother. It goes both ways.
It is awful that men currently have no legal recourse if they've unwillingly helped concieve a child, but loosening it up is very dangerous territory. Under what conditions would it be allowed? How long would a guy have to decide whether he wanted to be a father or not? How do you prevent some men from lying their way out of it (i.e. saying that they had done everything in their power not to get pregnant, but really had refused to wear a condom)?
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Tully: I suppose I was trying to show that the "Deadbeat" syndrome goes both ways. I apologize, but it was a bit off topic. Also, I wasnt implying that my father should have been exempt from paying child support, but that he should have obtained custody of us to begin with. Or that, custody should have been easily transferred to him, along with a financial maternal responsibility from my mother. But that didnt happen, and never does. This is what I take issue with.
However, I should clarify that I do not support the idea of a man leaving his family & children and then should be exempt from paternal responsibilities. Im not sure exactly how it SHOULD work but, I think some kind of decision prior to birth needs to be made. Either party should be able to waive paternal responsibility while its not to late to either abort or place for adoption the child who is in question. A woman has this opportunity multiple times. A man has none. Unfair. unjust. I understand its a slippery slope, but thats what legislation is for. Thats what these types of hearings are for. To resolve those details. To find what our society, democratically, believes should be that limit. Where that line lies.
In the situation of the article? I believe he should be exempt. She entered into the pregnancy and continued to carry & keep the child aware of her partners refusal to accept paternal responsibility. That constitutes part of her decision to keep the child. She could have aborted, of if that was unacceptable for a number of reasons, she could place the child for adoption. Choices. He is given neither.
I understand this is a tough issue for all parties involved. Ive just seen friends get shafted by this countrys lopsided injustice system, and I feel this is an example of that. The absolute unwaivering bias of the court system in paternity cases against men is unbelievable.
I also find the stereotypical Deadbeat Dads abhorrent, so please dont think I support or endorse that type of behavior.
You can wear a condom, and she can take birth control. With both of you taking precautions, she can STILL get pregnant. Sure, it doesn't happen often, but it can happen.
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I'm thinking in those situations, someone messed up and just isn't admitting it. That or somebody had problems reading the instructions on the wrapper.
I think the timeframe for saying "I don't want the kid. If she wants to keep it she has to pay for it alone." should be as long as the timeframe for the woman to get an abortion. Probably with a notification for the woman that the child will not be supported by the man. Of course it has to be done on paper and filed with the proper authorities, not just a verbal agreement.
And now, for something completely different:
Nice Comic too.
I have to agree with AZ tho, once the kid is here like it or not you're it's father step up take resopnablity for your actions and either be a dad and help raise the kid or do the bare min and help pay. I think there should be tighter restrictions/patroling of how the money is spent. I think accounting (on both sides) needs to be done. I think the man has the right to demand an "audit" or break down of how the child support was or will be spent.
I worked with a single mom that had a serious grudge agaist her ex. A day didn't go by she didn't compair something horrible to him, yeah she was a peach. She also bragged about how he paid in cash for the first few years and she took him to court claiming he didn't pay. A judgement was made agaist him and he had to pay all over again.
I'm not saying her ex wasn't an ass and maybe he got what he deserved. But hearing how she stuck it to him (and thought it was funny) and abused the system. Makes me think the money wasn't going to help raise the kid.
probably not, my girlfriend is on the woman-pill
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Wait a second... arn't you like in juniorhigh? (sorry if I remembered that incorrectly)
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Tully id take it as long as it was as reliable and safe as the pill for women. Insted there is one but its got like a 50% chance of working and it has lots of side effects.
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Actually there are quite a few possible medium and long term side effects of the female hormone therapy for both the females themselves and the enviroment in which the oestrogen winds up (both for humans and animals).
This is still mostly uncertain or better no real long term studys have been done... but I do think that it is a problem we will face sometime in the future. I, for one, if I was a female wouldn't want to mess with my hormone level that badly. But I always left it to the girls to decide (and still used a condome).
Back on topic:
There is a certain unfairness about the entire matter, and I really think some changes should be made.
Call me a socialist (which I not really), but if child support was generally a matter of the state (at least to a certain point) than all this wouldn't be a problem and all of society would have to pay for the future of their nation.
Besides that (and this is only my personal oppinion): Only have sex with a woman you can imagine to have childen with
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probably not, my girlfriend is on the woman-pill
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Wait a second... arn't you like in juniorhigh? (sorry if I remembered that incorrectly)
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im a senior in high school, i know i dont type like it though alright so dont get on my balls please
JKMakowka: except you can't truly predict what she will be like in the future.
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Does that matter concerning the child?
What I mean is, that we all argee that if a child gets born with both parents pretty much agreeing, than the father should pay, regardless how the relation ship turns out and how the woman will be in the future.
So there is only a small time window of nine months (or better three: the abortion limit) where that woman I could imagine having a child with (but maybe not right now; but that is though luck then) can turn into that 'future woman' you are talking about, which is possible but unlikely.
P.S.: @ Mishra: sorry then, but time is flying by, and I am sure that you said sometime ago that you are 14 or something. Must have been longer ago than I though
So my original statement is still true for me as it minimizes the risk
You both screwed, she got pregnant and does not want to have an abortion or give the child up for adoption - that is her choice, not yours, IMO. You can always choose not to have sex if you feel that strongly about having to pay child support. It takes two.