oXy, you're right. A few at work starting to watch it and now we're all caught up. Such a good show. The feeling I get watching it reminds me of when I watched ST:TNG for the first time.
I'm totally hooked on Battlestar, LOST and Invasion. I really want to see some more battles in space. Last weeks episode with SCAR had some good battle scenes.
While I found the first season to be OMFGfuckinga-amazing. . . they dont seem to quite have a focus this year. They're just wasting time, and since they've 'realisticized' to the point where there really is nothing out there except space, some rocks and more cylons, they've really limited the kind of stories they can tell. Far too many episodes have started with "__ hours earlier" and though it was actually done well for once in "Scar", the other two times I can recall were just lame. Its just starting to get a little too soap operish with memories of ex-girlfriends suddenly appearing to make Appolo angsy and Starbuck suddenly in love with the resistance dude for no reason that makes a whole lot of sense other than shes a crazy bitch.
The pilot episode aired here a few days ago. I don't get why they replaced Starbuck with a woman, I doubt you can establish a brothers in arms friendship between people of different gender, that usually ends up as a hollywoodish clicheed love story.
[ QUOTE ]
I doubt you can establish a brothers in arms friendship between people of different gender, that usually ends up as a hollywoodish clicheed love story.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why can't you have both KDR? The Greeks did it for centuries with Homosexuality allowed. I mean why brothers in arms? Why not comrades in arms? BTW love interest is not allowed between enlisted/non.
Oh and starbuks rocks sooooo much more than the old corny 70's version.
narasul in some ways I have found season 2 to be better than season 1 thus far as we know really get to see the complexity of all the characters.
Rubbish... This must be more of a american thing I guess because the constant babbling on about God really just bored me.
I generally thought it was very PC and backward in its notions of what people would do as the last survivors of earth.
Shame really because the pilot was awesome, I was utterly amazed and hopeful but then it just devolved into the same old boring pc bible bashing morale nonsense that so many american shows have as their ethos.
heh, I guess you could say I disagree a bit.
I just think that when this country is pumping out original and insightfull, liberating and challenging material like Deadwood, Firefly and Lost..... you guys are clapping your hands for Battlestar ?!?!
I guess this is the 'opinions are like assholes' rule, we all think everyone elses stink!
They're all soap operas Frank.
Old episodical (is that a new word) series like the A-Team or McGyver that didn't have an ongoing storyline were not soap operas.
Today's series, specially something like Galactica or Deadwood are simple soap operas, nothing ever happens and it's all about relationships, drama between the main characters. Instead of targeting bored housewives they target the male audience now.
It's funny how i never understood how women could be hooked to those 'Dallas' and south american type soap operas, but it looks like they found a way to catch the attention of the male audience.
Throw in some robots, spaceships, sexy chicks and guns and what has the plot of a 2 hour movie entertains us for several seasons.
Joss Whedon (Buffy/Angel/Firefly) is the only one i can think off that can pull off something interesting and continued without turning it into a soap.
Personally, i'd have a clone army of Grace Parks (the BSG asian chick) kill everybody in the series and then fight eachother in transparent Batgirl costumes!
Joss Whedon (Buffy/Angel/Firefly) is the only one i can think off that can pull off something interesting and continued without turning it into a soap.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh please, fireflys characters where two dimensional cut outs. Sure they "grew" but they really were archetypes more than anything else. And overdone archetypes at that. I got dulled halfway through the firefly series. No wonder it was cancelled. The only credit I give firefly is that they where the first series I saw that credited space as having no sound.
Drama is what makes a such a series as BSG work. BTW BSG works with both male and female audiences. Just like Farscape did.
I enjoyed the first two series of lexx, it was something a bit different at the time.
It got a bit shite after that, but the episodes with mantrid and the drone arms were cool.
I would have to say it's pretty damn up there omg the best. The one thing that throws me is how everything is so similar to current day earth (the soldiers carry P90s, for example), but this is supposed to be a totally different group of humans, separated from Earth.
Otherwise I love the drama, and it has some of the best if not the best CG sequences of any TV show.
I liked Firefly for the 1 liner jokes all Joss Whedon series have (i still liked Buffy better in that aspect even tho i couldn't stand her anymore at some point, still funy charcaters), and the fact that it didn't take itself too serious sometimes and didn't degenerate into a soap. There actually was something else going on besides love affairs.
The show itself was horribly boring sometimes, agreed.
There's nothing wrong with 2 dimensional characters tho, it's entertainment, i don't see anybody complaining about anime characters.
There's also nothing wrong with BSG and Co. (which im enjoying too) being soaps, they are, and that's it.
There's just no point in calling it a soap to make it look bad, when most of today's 'cool' series are all soaps too.
The CG is really good, often doesn't feel like you're watching a series. Also love the Taiko drums here and there and some of the shaky camera stuff they do.
You honestly can't really compare these Scifi shows mentioned, they are all so different.
I love Firefly for the characters, I love BSG for the gritty realism and military stuff. I love SG1 and Atlantis for the adventure, I love Doctor Who for the cheesy fun.
BSG is awesome SCI-FI, I'm really enjoying it. It's definately the best at what it does, and that is gritty, realistic Sci-fi. I personally wouldn't call it the best Sci-fi show ever, thats a big claim.
I was a fan of "Space: Above and Beyond" ( http://www.web-worthy.com/saab/ ). Until now I just saw three episodes of BSG and they remind me a little bit of Space Above and Beyond.
[ QUOTE ]
Rubbish... This must be more of a american thing I guess because the constant babbling on about God really just bored me.
[/ QUOTE ]
How American is the show? Sky TV is one of the production companies and I know it's primarily filmed in Canada, the cast has a number of Canadians and Brits, etc. I really don't get a sense that religion is that big a deal, beyond the peculiarity of making the protagonists polytheistic.
*edit*
IMDB sez:
Apollo and Baltar are British.
Billy, Chief Tyrol, Callie, Dualla, Col. Tigh, Helo and Cylon #6 are all Canadian.
Not that it means anything, but I don't think of BG as an 'American' show in the way that I would some of the other shows that have been mentioned.
Verm: First season is rife with the constant want of the Cylons to find god, to make baltaar believe in god, to trust in god.
I think god is at the heart of the ethos of more shows targetted at america than at britain or europe was my point if any.
My reasoning was that perhaps its that ethos being so at odd's with my own interest's that I disliked it and that as that ethos is much more popular in the states, naturally it should prove more popular.
Whilst I'm scrutinizing my viewpoints here I guess also I see the show as more american than , again, british or european is because its got that american 'can do' patriotic optimisim.
Compare that to the british Red Dwarf season for instance, its a much more cynical humourous antidishtablishment attitude and theres not much of a search for god theme so to speak.
I wasn't really commenting upon who made the show, just it's themes and ethos as I see it because these are the things that attract me to a show and interest me more.
Deadwood by contrast has a slice of what i perceive to be the american want to return to the pioneer days in a way, that sense of the death of the pioneer spirit caused by the coming of the buisiness man and the railway.
This sort of stuff I enjoy far more as it seems more about how people truly are imo rather than the many shows that pretend we are something different than what we are.
Yep, I gotcha now. I didn't really see how production companies were relevant, so my fault for not getting your meaning
I guess that because the 'god' topic isn't terribly important to me, I tend not to notice it. I think I see it more as a plot device than an agenda, particularly as it gives the heroes an anachronistic belief system while the villains have a contemporary monotheistic faith (I know that not all current world religions are monotheistic, but speaking in general). It's flavor rather than anything else, in my view.
On the other hand, I do know what you mean about the overall optimism of the show. Yeah, that's probably indicative of American entertainment, though BG is still entertainingly grim at times compared to the dreadfully dull utopian schtick of a Star Trek series. Certainly BG is not on par with (what I see as) the often cynical nature of foreign storytelling (be it British, German, Japanese, Chinese, etc).
Kind of an interesting thing to discuss, though, don't you think? I mean, overall, I'd say that Americans are the most optimistic cultural group on the planet. I can speculate plenty of reasons why that is, but that sense of certainty (a bit 'divine right of kings', if you will) seems to have defined a large part of the American character since WWII. Culturally speaking, we probably crossed the fine line between positivity and arrogance some time ago, but even as aware of it as I am, I admit that I definitely prefer justice served, personal triumphs and happy endings. I'm a product of my environment! ;D
Yeah I agree, its a very interesting topic. I likewise love to see justice served, personal triumphs and happy endings but I can't stomach that without truth.
I love the Wonder Boys because it has all the things you say you love , and I likewise love them, but it's a film that also demonstrate's how truly screwed up everyone is and how much reallife shit they have to go through to get that happy ending.
I like Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind for the same reason and heh, also Bad santa because it tricks you into thinking it is a rejection of the traditional xmas story and then ends like one!
I guess, for me, the story needs to detail how optimism will cause you to walk blindly into the net of the type of people and organisations that take advantage of the naive side of being optimistic and detail the truth of how losing things allows us to appreciate things and accomplish more, how pain is a necessary teacher.
Satre said hell is other people ( i haven't read him, I just read the quote in Dante's Inferno the other day!) amd I guess I like to see that truth honestly portrayed rather than glossed over with mere nods to the journey we all go on before we arrive at those happy endings we like so much.
Quite a bit has been borrowed from homeric epic and the old/new testaments characters, typescenes, wisdom literature and delivery techniques. This applies to entertainment in general; tv shows, current affairs, theater, opera, church mass, stadium concerts, etc. You ever get the feeling everythings connected? 31 flavors but its all still ice cream. Six degrees of literary separation. Spackle holding the commercials together.
A quick jaunt through history will show that even the covenant community borrowed from the greeks and babylonians to tell their stories. eg. Aristotles Demi-urge coaxed forms out of the imperfect clay and man was one of the forms, which was re-translated to the hebrew god creating adam from the arable soil .. human from the humus if you will, which is no co-incidence that in hebrew it means Adam from the adama. .. uh oh. Adama. At this stage I feel compelled to mention Im more of an historian and axiologist than potential loony zealot. heh.
I wouldnt consider the original galactica writers being overly religious either, in the spirit of storytellers everywhere they had no qualms about co-opting other peoples turf. Lucas was blatant, totally lifted the best bits of Homers Odyssey for EP4 & 5:
"you knew my father?" "yes he was a great man, but I don't know where he is now .." and,
Telemachus, *CHawww* .. EYE .. AM YOUR FATHER... (Noooooo..)
Id be surprised if Joss didnt know about Roddenberrys original Trek pitch as being a wagon train in space and JMS has mentioned that he has researched most cultures doctrines and history for reference material. Obviously thats just scratching the surface, but the summary is Mass appeal folk tales > plug n play > profit. I firmly believe there is a better way.. the hard part is having positive or shitty enough experiences that can be retold in new and interesting ways.. or failing that, digging up less-used source material.
Anyway, basically, the 79 galactica writers cribbed Genesis (look at the plentiful bounty that the creator has surrounded us with-) then Exodus (-but our intrepid heroes are expelled and must struggle to survive in the wilderness! Oh noes!) .. the cylon characters slot into the role of the covenant community (the book of Judges is literally a doctrine on the practise of pre-emptive strikes and assassinations without moral recourse) and the colonials as verm mentioned, adapted from pantheonist greco-romans. The trials that the fleet must endure mirrors aspects of the boats sailing to and returning from Troy in the iliad/odyssey in terms of political entanglement, survivalistic engagements and the promise of homecoming. Theres probably more but I can hear some of you kids snoring back there. I foresee cylon priests being forced to educate the unwashed by the end of season two, just kidding, its actually in an upcoming episode guide. bleh. Love the CG, bring back Firefly or hell just let the lads at zoic come up with something.
If you really want science in your fiction, try reading Greg Bears Forge / Anvil of Stars before WB murders them on film. Forge has the sort of stuff rors talking about, My son does not want to watch the earth fall apart, right Marty? actually mom, I do. Why? So I know how mad Im supposed to be. (AoS doesnt really require reading Forge first, its like Enders game, but depicted as real from the beginning and lacking adult interference..) and for realism, Carl Sagans non-fiction Pale Blue Dot.
It's my want for people to bring something of their own to the table and to find some theme other than the ones discussed in order that we might move forward.
For me, continuing down the same old roads is just a dead end and I switch off when I recognise some of the roads you know far better than I.
I guess the simplification that occured when we left the classical values in preference of the christian values holds sway over society in general so I'll always be dissatisifed.
Hopefully Joss will manage to wrangle some more funding, he's not doing as well as his contemparay Abrams.
I've heard also that recent Rome series may not get to retunr which is a terrible shame, outside of my extreme joy to see Kevin McKidd in a more lead role, it was good to see something involving the Celts in a form closer to how they were and the series in general was as blunt as it could be in such a homophobic society such as we live in.
If you ask Joseph Campbell, people haven't successfully brought something of their own to the table in quite a while. I imagine I don't have to discuss 'Hero With A Thousand Faces' with any of you, but I think the derivative nature of a lot of modern entertainment is subconsciously deliberate because it has legitimate *human* appeal. It's the execution of those familiar themes that varies.
Ror, gimme a quick rundown of classical values vs. christian values as you see them, if you'd be so kind
*edit*
Tonight's Galactica was lame. Anyone want to explain to me how a fighter pilot (Starbuck) was put in charge of mounting a rescue mission rather than one of the marines? At least her fucking up seemed appropriate. And Lee's near-death experiences every other episode are just a bit much; he's been asphyxiated in deep space, strangled with a garrotte and shot in the chest in just the last five shows. Sheesh.
oxy: Ive been meaning to read the Darwin stuff. One of the things that hooked me intially with Bear was his description of thought processes from an AI point of view in queen of angels.
verm: Main characters always get the interesting missions .. look at how much Jack Bauer can do by himself. heh
ror: cheers. agreed on moving forward. cant blame you or anyone else for switching off at the babbling about god, try having a relative that teaches sunday school. This leads to what I can only describe as unenviable levels of tolerance.
saw some advertising for the Rome series the other day, will keep an eye out for it.
/edit: to me, the christian vs classical issue boils down to timé and kleios (glory and honour systems) vs. well refined reactionary apocalypticism.
I've been reading the BSG novelisation some time ago, was cool. Been through the pilote and the two first episodes and don't really like the show. I truly dislike the shakey-steadycam effect and the actic is rather boring.
Just watched most of the second season on Friday. the rest I'll watch on Monday, it's a bit more melodramatic, and my buddy Doug, who just came back from Iraq, after some intense combat in area 42 S.E. bagdad, said that he likes the show for the story and the plotting, but everyone in it are whiners. he also thinks they need to come out with the next season of MI-5/Spooks, sooner, and also likes 24. I'm pretty much on the same page, but I like Lost, and Invasion as well.
Of course they're whiners, it's a soap! Once you accept that, it's not even bad for a soap.
And Galactica was quite biblical when it first was concepted. It was supposed to be about a rich guy named Adam and his spaceship filled with the best of humanity, flying off (earth was dying) to find a new planet, and fight the success of Star Wars.
When the script was finally revisited, Adam became Adama etc.
Scott:
[ QUOTE ]
Just watched most of the second season on Friday. the rest I'll watch on Monday, it's a bit more melodramatic, and my buddy Doug, who just came back from Iraq, after some intense combat in area 42 S.E. bagdad, said that he likes the show for the story and the plotting, but everyone in it are whiners. he also thinks they need to come out with the next season of MI-5/Spooks, sooner, and also likes 24. I'm pretty much on the same page, but I like Lost, and Invasion as well.
[/ QUOTE ]
Excellent taste. My tivo list is currently five shows; Galactica, 24 and Lost are three of them.
Ruz:
[ QUOTE ]
hmm is it me or was battlestar galactica just a cheesy sci fi ,much in the spirit of buck rogers?
[/ QUOTE ]
The 1970s version, yes. The current version, no. In fact, the modern edition is about as far removed from science-fiction as a show can get and still fit in that genre. On the other hand, if we're thinking about shows that truly emulated Buck Rogers, FarScape pretty much cribbed it's entire premise from ol' Buck. No Princess Ardala, though
[ QUOTE ]
If you ask Joseph Campbell, people haven't successfully brought something of their own to the table in quite a while. I imagine I don't have to discuss 'Hero With A Thousand Faces' with any of you, but I think the derivative nature of a lot of modern entertainment is subconsciously deliberate because it has legitimate *human* appeal. It's the execution of those familiar themes that varies.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah i'm emjoying the utilization of archetypical hero work here. Especially the parallels to greek mythologies as well as their own mythologies. Starbuck and the arrow, the president following the path of the hero that has been prophecized.
This thread got me interested and I borrowed the season 1 DVD this weekend from a workmate. It's quite bad ass.
Having only seen season 1 im looking forward to the next however I do have some issues with the series.
Gaius Baltar and the Cylon in his head are getting really annoying. He's just such a wishy washy character and her seducing ways just seem like filler dribble to me. FINALLY the asian Cylon is almost exposed? I'm still trying to figure out why the Cylons are trying to kill the humans at all, what is their motive. FracK!!!!!
Either way i love what they've done with the show and i' mlooking forward to watching season 2!
Replies
I still need to catch up on my BSG
Firefly isn't even on the map compared to this.
Give me focus, give me drive, give me progress.
And no mention of Babylon 5?
I doubt you can establish a brothers in arms friendship between people of different gender, that usually ends up as a hollywoodish clicheed love story.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why can't you have both KDR? The Greeks did it for centuries with Homosexuality allowed. I mean why brothers in arms? Why not comrades in arms? BTW love interest is not allowed between enlisted/non.
Oh and starbuks rocks sooooo much more than the old corny 70's version.
narasul in some ways I have found season 2 to be better than season 1 thus far as we know really get to see the complexity of all the characters.
Frank the Avenger
I generally thought it was very PC and backward in its notions of what people would do as the last survivors of earth.
Shame really because the pilot was awesome, I was utterly amazed and hopeful but then it just devolved into the same old boring pc bible bashing morale nonsense that so many american shows have as their ethos.
heh, I guess you could say I disagree a bit.
I just think that when this country is pumping out original and insightfull, liberating and challenging material like Deadwood, Firefly and Lost..... you guys are clapping your hands for Battlestar ?!?!
I guess this is the 'opinions are like assholes' rule, we all think everyone elses stink!
r.
Old episodical (is that a new word) series like the A-Team or McGyver that didn't have an ongoing storyline were not soap operas.
Today's series, specially something like Galactica or Deadwood are simple soap operas, nothing ever happens and it's all about relationships, drama between the main characters. Instead of targeting bored housewives they target the male audience now.
It's funny how i never understood how women could be hooked to those 'Dallas' and south american type soap operas, but it looks like they found a way to catch the attention of the male audience.
Throw in some robots, spaceships, sexy chicks and guns and what has the plot of a 2 hour movie entertains us for several seasons.
Joss Whedon (Buffy/Angel/Firefly) is the only one i can think off that can pull off something interesting and continued without turning it into a soap.
Personally, i'd have a clone army of Grace Parks (the BSG asian chick) kill everybody in the series and then fight eachother in transparent Batgirl costumes!
Joss Whedon (Buffy/Angel/Firefly) is the only one i can think off that can pull off something interesting and continued without turning it into a soap.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh please, fireflys characters where two dimensional cut outs. Sure they "grew" but they really were archetypes more than anything else. And overdone archetypes at that. I got dulled halfway through the firefly series. No wonder it was cancelled. The only credit I give firefly is that they where the first series I saw that credited space as having no sound.
Drama is what makes a such a series as BSG work. BTW BSG works with both male and female audiences. Just like Farscape did.
It got a bit shite after that, but the episodes with mantrid and the drone arms were cool.
Otherwise I love the drama, and it has some of the best if not the best CG sequences of any TV show.
The show itself was horribly boring sometimes, agreed.
There's nothing wrong with 2 dimensional characters tho, it's entertainment, i don't see anybody complaining about anime characters.
There's also nothing wrong with BSG and Co. (which im enjoying too) being soaps, they are, and that's it.
There's just no point in calling it a soap to make it look bad, when most of today's 'cool' series are all soaps too.
The CG is really good, often doesn't feel like you're watching a series. Also love the Taiko drums here and there and some of the shaky camera stuff they do.
I love Firefly for the characters, I love BSG for the gritty realism and military stuff. I love SG1 and Atlantis for the adventure, I love Doctor Who for the cheesy fun.
BSG is awesome SCI-FI, I'm really enjoying it. It's definately the best at what it does, and that is gritty, realistic Sci-fi. I personally wouldn't call it the best Sci-fi show ever, thats a big claim.
Deadwood is gritty, BSG is melodramtic!
r.
Just because you don't like it doesn't make it shit, just because you think somethig is awesome doesn't mean you are not a moron.
Lexx was pretty cool, mandrid was a great villain.
Calling BSG gritty is like calling GI Joe realistic.
Deadwood is gritty, BSG is melodramtic!
r.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hahahha, yes.
Frank the Avenger
http://www.pistolwimp.com/media/40930/
Just because you don't like it doesn't make it shit, just because you think somethig is awesome doesn't mean you are not a moron.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, it does..
Im the Sci-Fi god. What I saw is law. Ror is the devil, he tempts you with bad decisions.
Repent sinners!
Rubbish... This must be more of a american thing I guess because the constant babbling on about God really just bored me.
[/ QUOTE ]
How American is the show? Sky TV is one of the production companies and I know it's primarily filmed in Canada, the cast has a number of Canadians and Brits, etc. I really don't get a sense that religion is that big a deal, beyond the peculiarity of making the protagonists polytheistic.
*edit*
IMDB sez:
Apollo and Baltar are British.
Billy, Chief Tyrol, Callie, Dualla, Col. Tigh, Helo and Cylon #6 are all Canadian.
Not that it means anything, but I don't think of BG as an 'American' show in the way that I would some of the other shows that have been mentioned.
I think god is at the heart of the ethos of more shows targetted at america than at britain or europe was my point if any.
My reasoning was that perhaps its that ethos being so at odd's with my own interest's that I disliked it and that as that ethos is much more popular in the states, naturally it should prove more popular.
Whilst I'm scrutinizing my viewpoints here I guess also I see the show as more american than , again, british or european is because its got that american 'can do' patriotic optimisim.
Compare that to the british Red Dwarf season for instance, its a much more cynical humourous antidishtablishment attitude and theres not much of a search for god theme so to speak.
I wasn't really commenting upon who made the show, just it's themes and ethos as I see it because these are the things that attract me to a show and interest me more.
Deadwood by contrast has a slice of what i perceive to be the american want to return to the pioneer days in a way, that sense of the death of the pioneer spirit caused by the coming of the buisiness man and the railway.
This sort of stuff I enjoy far more as it seems more about how people truly are imo rather than the many shows that pretend we are something different than what we are.
Hope this clears things up for you Verm?
r.
I guess that because the 'god' topic isn't terribly important to me, I tend not to notice it. I think I see it more as a plot device than an agenda, particularly as it gives the heroes an anachronistic belief system while the villains have a contemporary monotheistic faith (I know that not all current world religions are monotheistic, but speaking in general). It's flavor rather than anything else, in my view.
On the other hand, I do know what you mean about the overall optimism of the show. Yeah, that's probably indicative of American entertainment, though BG is still entertainingly grim at times compared to the dreadfully dull utopian schtick of a Star Trek series. Certainly BG is not on par with (what I see as) the often cynical nature of foreign storytelling (be it British, German, Japanese, Chinese, etc).
Kind of an interesting thing to discuss, though, don't you think? I mean, overall, I'd say that Americans are the most optimistic cultural group on the planet. I can speculate plenty of reasons why that is, but that sense of certainty (a bit 'divine right of kings', if you will) seems to have defined a large part of the American character since WWII. Culturally speaking, we probably crossed the fine line between positivity and arrogance some time ago, but even as aware of it as I am, I admit that I definitely prefer justice served, personal triumphs and happy endings. I'm a product of my environment! ;D
I love the Wonder Boys because it has all the things you say you love , and I likewise love them, but it's a film that also demonstrate's how truly screwed up everyone is and how much reallife shit they have to go through to get that happy ending.
I like Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind for the same reason and heh, also Bad santa because it tricks you into thinking it is a rejection of the traditional xmas story and then ends like one!
I guess, for me, the story needs to detail how optimism will cause you to walk blindly into the net of the type of people and organisations that take advantage of the naive side of being optimistic and detail the truth of how losing things allows us to appreciate things and accomplish more, how pain is a necessary teacher.
Satre said hell is other people ( i haven't read him, I just read the quote in Dante's Inferno the other day!) amd I guess I like to see that truth honestly portrayed rather than glossed over with mere nods to the journey we all go on before we arrive at those happy endings we like so much.
Yeah, I have issues
r.
Quite a bit has been borrowed from homeric epic and the old/new testaments characters, typescenes, wisdom literature and delivery techniques. This applies to entertainment in general; tv shows, current affairs, theater, opera, church mass, stadium concerts, etc. You ever get the feeling everythings connected? 31 flavors but its all still ice cream. Six degrees of literary separation. Spackle holding the commercials together.
A quick jaunt through history will show that even the covenant community borrowed from the greeks and babylonians to tell their stories. eg. Aristotles Demi-urge coaxed forms out of the imperfect clay and man was one of the forms, which was re-translated to the hebrew god creating adam from the arable soil .. human from the humus if you will, which is no co-incidence that in hebrew it means Adam from the adama. .. uh oh. Adama. At this stage I feel compelled to mention Im more of an historian and axiologist than potential loony zealot. heh.
I wouldnt consider the original galactica writers being overly religious either, in the spirit of storytellers everywhere they had no qualms about co-opting other peoples turf. Lucas was blatant, totally lifted the best bits of Homers Odyssey for EP4 & 5:
"you knew my father?" "yes he was a great man, but I don't know where he is now .." and,
Telemachus, *CHawww* .. EYE .. AM YOUR FATHER... (Noooooo..)
Id be surprised if Joss didnt know about Roddenberrys original Trek pitch as being a wagon train in space and JMS has mentioned that he has researched most cultures doctrines and history for reference material. Obviously thats just scratching the surface, but the summary is Mass appeal folk tales > plug n play > profit. I firmly believe there is a better way.. the hard part is having positive or shitty enough experiences that can be retold in new and interesting ways.. or failing that, digging up less-used source material.
Anyway, basically, the 79 galactica writers cribbed Genesis (look at the plentiful bounty that the creator has surrounded us with-) then Exodus (-but our intrepid heroes are expelled and must struggle to survive in the wilderness! Oh noes!) .. the cylon characters slot into the role of the covenant community (the book of Judges is literally a doctrine on the practise of pre-emptive strikes and assassinations without moral recourse) and the colonials as verm mentioned, adapted from pantheonist greco-romans. The trials that the fleet must endure mirrors aspects of the boats sailing to and returning from Troy in the iliad/odyssey in terms of political entanglement, survivalistic engagements and the promise of homecoming. Theres probably more but I can hear some of you kids snoring back there.
If you really want science in your fiction, try reading Greg Bears Forge / Anvil of Stars before WB murders them on film. Forge has the sort of stuff rors talking about, My son does not want to watch the earth fall apart, right Marty? actually mom, I do. Why? So I know how mad Im supposed to be. (AoS doesnt really require reading Forge first, its like Enders game, but depicted as real from the beginning and lacking adult interference..) and for realism, Carl Sagans non-fiction Pale Blue Dot.
It's my want for people to bring something of their own to the table and to find some theme other than the ones discussed in order that we might move forward.
For me, continuing down the same old roads is just a dead end and I switch off when I recognise some of the roads you know far better than I.
I guess the simplification that occured when we left the classical values in preference of the christian values holds sway over society in general so I'll always be dissatisifed.
Hopefully Joss will manage to wrangle some more funding, he's not doing as well as his contemparay Abrams.
I've heard also that recent Rome series may not get to retunr which is a terrible shame, outside of my extreme joy to see Kevin McKidd in a more lead role, it was good to see something involving the Celts in a form closer to how they were and the series in general was as blunt as it could be in such a homophobic society such as we live in.
Anyway, interesting read, always a treat.
r.
Ror, gimme a quick rundown of classical values vs. christian values as you see them, if you'd be so kind
*edit*
Tonight's Galactica was lame. Anyone want to explain to me how a fighter pilot (Starbuck) was put in charge of mounting a rescue mission rather than one of the marines? At least her fucking up seemed appropriate. And Lee's near-death experiences every other episode are just a bit much; he's been asphyxiated in deep space, strangled with a garrotte and shot in the chest in just the last five shows. Sheesh.
verm: Main characters always get the interesting missions .. look at how much Jack Bauer can do by himself. heh
ror: cheers. agreed on moving forward. cant blame you or anyone else for switching off at the babbling about god, try having a relative that teaches sunday school. This leads to what I can only describe as unenviable levels of tolerance.
saw some advertising for the Rome series the other day, will keep an eye out for it.
/edit: to me, the christian vs classical issue boils down to timé and kleios (glory and honour systems) vs. well refined reactionary apocalypticism.
To each is own!
Scott
And that fit princess was probably the best thing in it
And Galactica was quite biblical when it first was concepted. It was supposed to be about a rich guy named Adam and his spaceship filled with the best of humanity, flying off (earth was dying) to find a new planet, and fight the success of Star Wars.
When the script was finally revisited, Adam became Adama etc.
Greg Bear is great, Peter F. Hamilton is better
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Just watched most of the second season on Friday. the rest I'll watch on Monday, it's a bit more melodramatic, and my buddy Doug, who just came back from Iraq, after some intense combat in area 42 S.E. bagdad, said that he likes the show for the story and the plotting, but everyone in it are whiners. he also thinks they need to come out with the next season of MI-5/Spooks, sooner, and also likes 24. I'm pretty much on the same page, but I like Lost, and Invasion as well.
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Excellent taste. My tivo list is currently five shows; Galactica, 24 and Lost are three of them.
Ruz:
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hmm is it me or was battlestar galactica just a cheesy sci fi ,much in the spirit of buck rogers?
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The 1970s version, yes. The current version, no. In fact, the modern edition is about as far removed from science-fiction as a show can get and still fit in that genre. On the other hand, if we're thinking about shows that truly emulated Buck Rogers, FarScape pretty much cribbed it's entire premise from ol' Buck. No Princess Ardala, though
Peter F. Hamilton is better
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Ouhh, thats a hard one! I would say Hamilton is better at making universes, while Bear is better at explaining.
Verm: same here with those three. would one of the others be .. House?
If you ask Joseph Campbell, people haven't successfully brought something of their own to the table in quite a while. I imagine I don't have to discuss 'Hero With A Thousand Faces' with any of you, but I think the derivative nature of a lot of modern entertainment is subconsciously deliberate because it has legitimate *human* appeal. It's the execution of those familiar themes that varies.
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Yeah i'm emjoying the utilization of archetypical hero work here. Especially the parallels to greek mythologies as well as their own mythologies. Starbuck and the arrow, the president following the path of the hero that has been prophecized.
This thread got me interested and I borrowed the season 1 DVD this weekend from a workmate. It's quite bad ass.
Having only seen season 1 im looking forward to the next however I do have some issues with the series.
Gaius Baltar and the Cylon in his head are getting really annoying. He's just such a wishy washy character and her seducing ways just seem like filler dribble to me. FINALLY the asian Cylon is almost exposed? I'm still trying to figure out why the Cylons are trying to kill the humans at all, what is their motive. FracK!!!!!
Either way i love what they've done with the show and i' mlooking forward to watching season 2!