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MGS4 + Nintendo Revolution controller revealed :O

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  • arshlevon
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    arshlevon polycounter lvl 18
    i think that controller is bad ass!! can you imagine playing an FPS with that thing? the remote looking part rotates the camera and it has a fucking trigger..you can even aim!like for real and not with a shitty crosshair icon.. the little module could be used for forward back,left and right.. i have a feeling that would be way better than a mouse.. nintendo really got its shit together this round.. while the other consoles will have 3 games because they are looking at 3-4 year dev cycles. i probably wont buy any of them..but this is by far my favorite.. i could care less about playing the same old games with higher polycounts, thats the definition of boredom, and all that sony or xbox has shown they are offering..i give the other consoles less then 3 monthes before they BOTH rip off the style of the controller to play FPSs with..
  • Fuse
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    Fuse polycounter lvl 18
    i agree, with the power ms and sony have at their disposal they are not the one's exploring the possibilities and really inventing anything new, which is probably fine to them. But while they fight each other by cramming hardware and useless features into their systems, Nintendo once again shows that they are in the business of console entertainment. ps3 and xbox360 is more like a pc that can only play games, whereas nintendo is really exploring the possibilities and distinguishing the console experience.

    Arshlevon, i completely agree. MS and Sony will be quick to come up with their own knockoffs of nintendo's invention. It wouldnt be the first time either . 4 player support, rumble feature, controller with expansion slots ( by god xbox has 2 and they didnt do a damn thing to use it to it's full potential)...
  • Ninjas
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    Ninjas polycounter lvl 18
    [ QUOTE ]
    As far as the revolution controller goes, this will be the only Nintendo system I won't buy. They just took it to far. Doesn't appeal to me in the least.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah, but the base controller is almost the same as an NES controller, so how can you really have a problem with this new one if you didn't have a problem with the original NES controller?
  • arshlevon
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    arshlevon polycounter lvl 18
    and according to this article there will be "shells" you can slide the remote in for different controller styles.. like the snes and gamecube.. so the possibilites are pretty much endless

    http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=60917
  • skankerzero
    [ QUOTE ]
    it's quite interesting that the general response here is positive, perhaps artist are more opening minded about going things, other messageboard absolutely hate the controller without take the effort to read into waht nintendo is offering.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Exactly. Anyone who thinks the Revolution will do well in the American market is just fooling themselves.

    We're artists and not really representative of the average gamer. Avereage american gamers will hate this. This matter finacially because our market has doubled over the Japanese market.

    Though, Nintendo has stated that they're comfortable being in 3rd, so more props to them.

    On paper, this control seems to work well, just like the EyeToy. The EyeToy works great in a controlled environment. Take it out of there and it's 'no holds barred'.
  • Joshua Stubbles
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    Joshua Stubbles polycounter lvl 19
    arshlevon - if they do in fact have a GC styled controller as well, then I'll reconsider my previous statement.

    But I'm still pissed off with Nintendo's games. ENOUGH kiddy crap, really. I have 3 games for my Gamecube, that's it. I have over 25 for PS2 and 20 for Xbox. Nintendo makes great machines, but I hate seeing the power go into crap like kirby or wario. I completely understand that games need to be made for the younger audience, but what about us older gamers? We only have Resident Evil. meh.
  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    Vassago: If Raven is correct (and knowing Nintendo, he probably is, they like their backwards compatibility)), then the existing GameCube controller will work on the Revolution, so if you don't like this new one, you can just plug in your old GC controller and use that instead.

    MGS4 looks very cool. Although Snake is reminding me an awful lot of Des Lynam...
  • doc rob
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    doc rob polycounter lvl 19
    [ QUOTE ]
    Exactly. Anyone who thinks the Revolution will do well in the American market is just fooling themselves.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I tend to agree, except I think that if some great games are developed for it, they will sell the system to the average gamer. I linked a story about the controller to one of my friends who is primarily a sports gamer. He had basically zero interest, but I think if he watched the video and saw the baseball segement he would be sold. With the rotation aspects of it, a baseball game could have you throwing different pitches based on how you twist the controller as you swing your arm. I bet you could make some fun hockey or golf games with this too. It kickass games that will sell the system, and I think those games will be made.

    I would LOVE to be developing a game for this thing.
  • skankerzero
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Exactly. Anyone who thinks the Revolution will do well in the American market is just fooling themselves.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I tend to agree, except I think that if some great games are developed for it, they will sell the system to the average gamer. I linked a story about the controller to one of my friends who is primarily a sports gamer. He had basically zero interest, but I think if he watched the video and saw the baseball segement he would be sold. With the rotation aspects of it, a baseball game could have you throwing different pitches based on how you twist the controller as you swing your arm. I bet you could make some fun hockey or golf games with this too. It kickass games that will sell the system, and I think those games will be made.

    I would LOVE to be developing a game for this thing.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    sports games look like they can be fun, but I still doubt that they would be purchased over the standard console versions. The novalty could wear thin fast.

    We're lazy. We're americans. We don't want to get up and move. DDR is such a hit, but that's only with the fanboys and girls that can't get enough japanese culture. I've yet to see any 'normal' american take DDR seriously.

    We tend to think stuff like that is weird.

    I also can't imagine you're average 'tough' teenager wanting to be waving their arms around while playing madden. I think they'll view this as 'gay'.

    Again, to restate my personal opinion. I'll buy it, I'm interested, just like the DS. Though, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate to everyone's 'OMG NinTENDOZ RUlsZ!!'
  • Ninjas
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    Ninjas polycounter lvl 18
    [ QUOTE ]
    Avereage american gamers will hate this.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Now I don't want to sound like a fan boy, but I don't think Nintendo is going after the "Average american gamer". The average person is female, and it is these people that Nintendo is making a killing off of (Nintendogs, their mind excercises game, etc.).

    If you saw a description of the Sims before it came out, you would have never have guessed it was going to be the best selling game of all time. Anyway, if it lets you play FPS games better than on a PC, your average american gamer will shit themselves in excitement.

    The game industry now is like a movie industry with only Action, Sports and Horror movies. Of course we need something like Drama, Romance etc, but for games it is going to be new genres. Most girls prefer co-op games, puzzles, human/animal sims etc. My Mom loved Final Fantasy X, but it took her 10 hours of watching me play and another 6 hours getting used to using the controller before she had really mastered it.

    Most people who don't play video games think they understand them (like my grandma), but that is like a person who can't read thinking they understand books because they can look at the pages. Like some illiterate savage, they will pick up a controller and discard it in a few seconds as being 'boring', never understanding that playing a game has more to do with what is happening in your head than on screen. Your average person gets motion sick the first time they play an FPS game (I know since I used to own a LAN gaming center). My point is that cracking into that HUGE market of current non-gamers is going to be hard. I don't know if Nintendo can do it with this system, but at least they are trying, and that is more than Sony or Microsoft.
  • skankerzero
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Avereage american gamers will hate this.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Now I don't want to sound like a fan boy, but I don't think Nintendo is going after the "Average american gamer".

    [/ QUOTE ]

    They're not, that's why I know average gamers will hate it. Make sense?

    Oh, and I would have thought the Sims sounded great on paper. I'm all about God simulators.

    ** edit ** food time!
  • nitzmoff
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    nitzmoff polycounter lvl 18
    I hope this starts a movement to simplifiy some games that come out, get back to their roots. For example, I'd love to play a game with nothing but one analog stick.
  • KDR_11k
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    KDR_11k polycounter lvl 18
    Super Monkey Ball?
  • e_x
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    e_x polycounter lvl 18
  • aesir
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    aesir polycounter lvl 18
    Nice e_x. Now wheres the sony guy holding a gun and blowing both of them away?

    Thats not supposed to be a fanboy comment btw. I just think nintendo has fucked themselves with this controller, regardless of how interesting I find it, and the xbox... is an xbox...
  • Sett
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    Sett polycounter lvl 18
    One problem I could see with this type of controller is fatigue. Playing with a reg. controller you rest your elbows in your lap. With a key/mouse you rest your arms on your desk. With this you will have your hands in the air moving around. I can't see myself doing that for more than 20 min.
  • sonic
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    sonic polycounter lvl 18
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I guess you simply need to tilt the remote 90 degrees? That turns it into a rather classic Nes controller, wich makes sense since one is supposed to be able to play old classic N games on the machine, right?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's what I noticed too, but it is also my only problem with the controller. I was expecting to be able to play old SNES games, but with this controller only NES and GB games will be possible frown.gif

    Otherwise it is a nice idea, and I will definitly give it a try.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think they might release extra controllers made specifically for snes, nes, etc... Think of a wireless SNES pad for your revolution to play SNES games!
  • KeyserSoze
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    KeyserSoze polycounter lvl 18
    [ QUOTE ]
    Nice e_x. Now wheres the sony guy holding a gun and blowing both of them away?

    Thats not supposed to be a fanboy comment btw. I just think nintendo has fucked themselves with this controller, regardless of how interesting I find it, and the xbox... is an xbox...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ha! "I'm not a fanboy but S0nY PwNS Jo0 aLL!!!1!!11~" icon15.gif
  • DH_
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    DH_ polycounter lvl 18
    solid snake + molester mustache = konami gets my money
  • Weiser_Cain
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    Weiser_Cain polycounter lvl 18
    I can't talk for every 'adverage american gamer' but for me it's still about the games. Nintendo can put up a first party line up no one can match.

    [ QUOTE ]
    MGS video was real special, i agree with daz. Japanese have a way with creativity and imagination.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Yeah as long as they stay away from non-samurai live action, Lone Wolf and Cub is awesome.

    [ QUOTE ]
    One problem I could see with this type of controller is fatigue. Playing with a reg. controller you rest your elbows in your lap. With a key/mouse you rest your arms on your desk. With this you will have your hands in the air moving around. I can't see myself doing that for more than 20 min.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I have big shoulders and tiny popeye-type arms so using the controler for long periods won't be a problem for me, but I also think they won't employ the mouse function as much as this ad suggests and some games won't use it at all or will make it optional.
  • shotgun
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    shotgun polycounter lvl 20
    [ QUOTE ]
    solid snake + molester mustache = konami gets my money

    [/ QUOTE ]

    its not a molseter mustache, its a communistic mustache.
    im telling you, MGS 3 was just the start.
    they are in kohoots with the russians!!!

    or, perhaps, they just have a message.
    well, these games are pure art.. you can see how cool they are.
  • Fuse
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    Fuse polycounter lvl 18
    i have no problem with "kiddy" games... Quite frankly these games require dexterity and sensitivity that most kids would find boring... I love mario games as well as mario party and mario sports games. I love zelda among many other nintendo games. I believe we've had this conversation before. Just because it looks kiddy doesnt mean it's a game for children.

    I like the feedback here, as artist we seem to explore the limits farther than the general mass that consumes regurgitated content time after time. I keep an open mind and i have fainth in nintendo's controller.
  • skankerzero
    [ QUOTE ]
    I can't talk for every 'adverage american gamer' but for me it's still about the games. Nintendo can put up a first party line up no one can match.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The games always speak the loudest, but noone can deny that the console itself doesn't have something to do with initial purchase.

    It's like someone trying to sell you a car with a badass engine and features, but has a crappy crappy steering wheel and interior. Chances are, you'll pass.
  • KeyserSoze
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    KeyserSoze polycounter lvl 18
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I can't talk for every 'adverage american gamer' but for me it's still about the games. Nintendo can put up a first party line up no one can match.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The games always speak the loudest, but noone can deny that the console itself doesn't have something to do with initial purchase.

    It's like someone trying to sell you a car with a badass engine and features, but has a crappy crappy steering wheel and interior. Chances are, you'll pass.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think Nintendo has designed a very, very consumer-friendly console. They are trying to play off the "iPod factor," but of course they have also backed that up with some serious innovation. Your average gamer will likely shun the system (at least initially), but I think this console will appeal to the average person. Think about it: how many iPod owners even knew what an MP3 was 5 years ago? I'm almost positive the system will be a huge success in Japan (it's almost a given), but I also think it has a great chance at being successful in the US also. I think it's going to surprise a lot of people.

    Also keep in mind that people tend to prefer smaller, sleeker consoles, and the PS3 is about as big as the current Xbox (and the Xbox360 is only slightly smaller).
  • Marine
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    Marine polycounter lvl 19
    anyone who buys a revolution because it looks cool isn't going to want to sit in front of a tv waving their arms about like a madman, like they do in that little video.
  • skankerzero
    [ QUOTE ]
    anyone who buys a revolution because it looks cool isn't going to want to sit in front of a tv waving their arms about like a madman, like they do in that little video.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    very true.
  • Rwolf
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    Rwolf polycounter lvl 18
    Well hopefully the controller will only require wrist, and forarm movment for the lazy gamers, and jumping around spastically for some of the games.

    On another note, I never liked the GC controller, it was to small with the joystick oddly positioned for me. I remedied the problem by using a PS2 to GC adapter.
  • thnom
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    thnom polycounter lvl 18
    Of all the console controllers the only thing the only buttons I found totally inept in their place is that of the white and black buttons of the X-Box. They are totally out of reach, and require you to move the general hand placement to press 2 buttons. This is on the 'S' Controller, not the original which had seemeed to have thes correct, although as shoulder buttons from the start would have been better. Glad the 360 went with that.
  • Weiser_Cain
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    Weiser_Cain polycounter lvl 18
    The gc controler wasn't the best for fighting games but then... I can't see why the didn't go with a controller like the dual shock which was based off the snes controler in the first place.
    This new controler is interesting though, certainly has us talking, something you cant say about the comp.
  • acc
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    acc polycounter lvl 18
    I was looking at the PS3 and thinking maybe, just maybe I'd switch over for the sheer power of it. The MGS4 video is sexy; no doubt about it. But, unlike Sony's target demographic, I don't have $600+ to spring on a new console.

    Motion tracking controllers are something I've been wanting very badly, and it has really shocked me to see Nintendo go for them so soon. Knowing that Nintendo will shoot for a lower price range on the system, I can safely say (though I only speak for myself) that Nintendo has already won this round of the console war. Even if I need to go buy a GC controller to play GC games properly and even if I need to buy an extension to play SNES games, it's still going to be the best buy by far.
  • Daz
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    Daz polycounter lvl 18
    Looks like Konamis site broke, but heres some insanely high res shots:

    http://ruliweb.dreamwiz.com/data/rulinew...mp;ftext=%5btgs
  • Weiser_Cain
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    Weiser_Cain polycounter lvl 18
    I hope this comes to pc so I can get rid of that 'stash!
    http://222.122.42.70/tgs/16/ps3/ruliweb_mgs4_09.jpg
    Dustin hoffmans illegitimate japanese lovechild looks like he wants me(men shouldn't have feathered hair)... And while I'm on the subject, does snake's package look way too small to anyone else?
  • hawken
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    hawken polycounter lvl 19
    I wonder how long it'll be before the first sex game appears... or something similar to the rez trance vibrator?

    I actually bought a rez trance vibrator. All I ever heard from my exGF was "when are we gonna play rez? I love it when you play that game"
  • Wells
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    Wells polycounter lvl 18
    I'm excited for MGS4

    I've always wanted to play as a ninja Teddy Roosevelt in a post-apocalyptic past.
  • Weiser_Cain
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    Weiser_Cain polycounter lvl 18
    I always wanted to play the George Washington bleeder minigame, if you loose, you win.
  • Joshua Stubbles
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    Joshua Stubbles polycounter lvl 19
    Here's a shot of the 'addon' controller.
    Looks pretty typical to me.

    understanding-the-revolution-controller-20050916041026412-000.jpg
  • KDR_11k
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    KDR_11k polycounter lvl 18
    Vassago: Is that a mockup? Because A: It makes no sense, the Rev has GC controller ports and B. the right analog stick mechanics clip into the remote.
  • aesir
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    aesir polycounter lvl 18
    nah thats real kdr. It'll basically let you plug in the motion sensitive remote to something to make a makeshift GC controller with all the motion gimmicks still intact.
  • sinistergfx
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    sinistergfx polycounter lvl 18
    No, it's not:
    "Nintendo has not yet released official imagery of what the controller shell might look like. However, we've created a mock-up (above) based on what we know of its functionality."

    from: http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651559p1.html
  • swampbug
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    swampbug polycounter lvl 18
    Revolution controller turned sideways is a classic NES controller. smile.gif
  • Joshua Stubbles
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    Joshua Stubbles polycounter lvl 19
    Either way, with a normal controller like that, I think I'll give the revolution a shot. Before they mentioned that, I was under the impression that their free-form joystick was the only control system they were going to have.
  • Rhinokey
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    Rhinokey polycounter lvl 18
    hhmm wow... so the new controller is a gyro controller! awesome! you know.. just like those mice you see at best buy, you know the ones that just sit there and no one buys because THEY ARE STUPID

    the game cube controller was horrible with its retarded circular button layout, and this goes even further away, man i love most of nintendos games, but they keep having to be so extremely unique and creative and it just seems to suck.

    i guess i'll wait till i try one before i completely give up hope, but it looks grim.
  • arshlevon
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    arshlevon polycounter lvl 18
    hahaha!! mojo cynical as usual.. actually i think no one buys them because they are like 120 bucks.. eric bought one and i thought it was cool.. i would stand behind his sholder and draw over his concepts and make lightsaber noises..then he would tell me to leave with his muscles
  • Raven
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    Raven polycounter lvl 18
    I would suggest anyone seeking answers about what Nintendo are trying to pull with this new controller view the TGS Keynote (there is a link on the Nintendo site with slides, which explains more than the videos' shown elsewhere).

    As far as MGS goes, I don't think that the models are tesselating.. mainly given the G70 doesn't have that feature, in-fact I think even ATi have dropped the idea of surface tesselation. Was never really used. The models however are fairly high polygon with the same level of normal mapping you see in Doom 3.

    Probably what's throwing people off. Doom 3 models have like 1,500 polygons; but because of using a normalmap lighting engine people seem to get under the impression that, that's the standard.

    Thing is that had to work on a GeForce 3 only capable of ~50million Vertices / Sec and 1Billion Texels / Sec; so while it certainly set a standard using older hardware, as far as what is possible on the G70 your looking at far far far beyond that.

    ~890million vertices / sec and ~38billion texels / sec.
    So you can afford to really let ripp with the graphics pipeline and still achieve a nice healthy 30-60fps pipeline TVs are looking for, even at HD resolutions.

    This said, I'm a little skeptical about how many will be able to run those sorts of graphics with quite as many people on-screen as there were in that particular trailer with all the other aspects like phyiscs, and ai. I'm still conviced (as from that clip no doubt Konami are too heh) that Killzone 2 was pre-rendered.

    Also I think the images might have a bit more depth on them than the retail version will have. Probably using 1024x1024 maps over the more realistic 256x256 perhaps 512x512 maps you'll really see. I know the console has 512MB RAM but this is divided against all of the resources, so I'm pretty sure that 1024x1024 maps are still a long way off. Particularly given the throughput for the fillrate would need to be ridiculously high.

    That and the terrain is horribly low resolution while the characters / focus models have high resolution maps. Doesn't flow nicely for real-time gameplay, as it detracts from the overal IQ (imo). smile.gif

    I think that later screenshot someone posted is probably the real-time depth. Still very good but not quite the same quality as the video shown.
  • Daz
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    Daz polycounter lvl 18
    No, I dont think that the entire models are tesselating either. But I do think it's feasible that just the heads are. The rest of the body is regular normal mapped geometry, albeit higher resolution by some way than Doom3 models. Look at the ears. http://222.122.42.70/tgs/16/ps3/ruliweb_mgs4_04.jpg Not a polygonal edge in sight. I know of at least 2 studios playing with realtime tesselation on the PS3. It's probably feasible under the right conditions. I'm sure it isn't cheap. That's why ( If I'm right ) it's only being applied to heads here. If it isn't realtime tesselation, that's still a pretty high res head model. Either way, it's pretty cool that we've reached the point that polygons are sub pixel in close-up face shots.

    I don't think there is any doubt anymore that the Killzone 2 video was pre-rendered. We had an entire messy thread on that back around E3 before you were around, so probably best dropped!
  • Joshua Stubbles
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    Joshua Stubbles polycounter lvl 19

    I believe EA also used realtime tesselation on SSX landscapes, didn't they? Although not to this degree.

    And Raven, I don't think 1024 maps are off at all. The 'next gen' PC cards are running 256MB of ram, same as the PS3 (which has 256MB main ram, and 256MB Vram). I don't see why the larger textures are out of question. With decent streaming and lod's, there shouldn't be a problem with it at all.
  • killingpeople
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    killingpeople polycounter lvl 18
    when you read and relate with game critics who are complaining about the lack of innovation in games, season after season, nintendo speeches make me smile! whoever writes these really knows how to press my buttons.

    in nintendo i trust. i like that nintendo has the fucking balls to do their job as a videogame console developer. true, it isn't the first the world has seen of this technology, but it seemed like the right time to present something new and fresh that is being pushed by a console-king. it's almost unheard of for a game console company pushing innovation like this. it's almost like they care about making an innovative product more than making money.

    i'm not sure who started the whole "next-gen" term, but as far as i can see the revolution is the closest thing of what i'd like to call an evolution forward. graphic upgrades are great, and i'm glad ps3 and xbox 360 are there to grow in that direction, i am glad it's there for the grognards, or hardcore. (which i am apart of. i'll be buying a ps3 aswell, omg mgs4!). what i love about nintendo's innovation risk, is that it creates a balance in the industry that i feel developers are craving: room for growth in game design.
  • JKim3
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    JKim3 polycounter lvl 18
    This is more related to MGS4 than directly about it.
    MGS4 might be the last one for Kojima
    http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/09/17/news_6133766.html
  • KDR_11k
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    KDR_11k polycounter lvl 18
    Games on the PS2 already use highres models for closeups, I don't think they're doing the overhead of realtime tesselation when you can just save a second version of the model to disc. The PS3 uses Bluray and currently noone has enough data to fill even one of those layers up so they can probably afford wasting space.
  • Daz
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    Daz polycounter lvl 18
    You're assuming the game streams off a disk. Most 3D engines actually dont utilize disc streaming at runtime to load 3D content, and streaming technology has it's own issues. Besides, you still gottta fit everything in ram that you need to. I'm in the business of making console games so I kinda play with this stuff for a living. We finished one today. Our levels stream. It's a nightmare. I don't know what on earth you mean about PS2 games using high res models. Unless you mean higher res versions for in game cinematics? Yeah I guess some might do that, but it's really not the norm. Perhaps you're talking about runtime LOD's.
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