The meaning of life
polycounter lvl 18
First off I know Im going to get a lot of flak for this but I feel its worth saying.
We all ask our selves that question what is the meaning of life? The thing by asking this question we are answering it. What were really asking is what I have to do to give meaning to my life.
Think about it, the use of the word meaning. What is something of personal meaning? (I say personal as we dont ask another person what the meaning of your life is.) So now think of something/someone of personal meaning to yourself, why is it/they so important? The answer is either it/they made a difference to you at some point in your life. This tells us that something/someone of meaning is something/someone that makes a difference.
When you put that bit of information back into the question you see that all you have to do in life is make a difference. The instant that parents know that have conceived a baby, that child has already made a difference whether its born or not. Every second your alive your making a difference, we just dont stop to think about it.
Thats it; its that simple, now you can give me all the flak you want about what I just said.
We all ask our selves that question what is the meaning of life? The thing by asking this question we are answering it. What were really asking is what I have to do to give meaning to my life.
Think about it, the use of the word meaning. What is something of personal meaning? (I say personal as we dont ask another person what the meaning of your life is.) So now think of something/someone of personal meaning to yourself, why is it/they so important? The answer is either it/they made a difference to you at some point in your life. This tells us that something/someone of meaning is something/someone that makes a difference.
When you put that bit of information back into the question you see that all you have to do in life is make a difference. The instant that parents know that have conceived a baby, that child has already made a difference whether its born or not. Every second your alive your making a difference, we just dont stop to think about it.
Thats it; its that simple, now you can give me all the flak you want about what I just said.
Replies
I don't personally think there is a meaning or a purpose- life just is, and we follow our own course as best we can until we die and someone else takes our place. But that sounds a bit depressing..
The meaning of life is beer and titties!
Life just is.
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Quoted for emphasis!
but i think the meaning of life is to be happy, you can work hard and not be happy, you can be rich and not be happy, you can procreate and not be happy, but if you are happy then you are making the most of your 80 or so years.
Well if its going to go down that path Ill just have to make sure its a safe one.
Almost all religions are based around one basic principle, and thats to live a good life and to make a positive difference. All the rules and mantras are there to lead people down a path of beliefs that would have them making a positive difference. This is why religions tell people not to kill and to treat others well. You dont need to believe in a god to do that, but for some it helps and there is nothing wrong with that.
you guys utterly fail as nerds. i am disappointed.
If you want a serious answer--Adam's completely relativistic humanist philosophy isn't actually what I would subscribe to on the question, though of course on completely humanistic terms that's perhaps about the best you could hope for. Personally I think the question was addressed rather well in a book I read not long ago.. the author wrote how the Freudian "will to pleasure" (we're just out to satiate our basic desires and instincts) and the Jungian "will to power" (life is ultimately about gaining power) both ultimately fail in encompassing the depth and dignity that is the human person. Furthermore, happiness sought in and of itself ends up failing to provide a life worth living as well. The author rather astutely observes, based on the work of a holocaust survivor/psychologist (whose name I regrettably cannot remember right now) that in order to live a happy life we must strive for meaning, for purpose. Happiness is something of an exceedingly pleasant byproduct of leading a purposeful, meaningful existence. which is why all the power or money does nothing for happiness if it is happiness that is sought... because that's exactly what will elude you if you're looking for it. Meaning is exactly the meaning of life--we need meaning to make it worth living.
42!
you guys utterly fail as nerds. i am disappointed.
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im awaiting the inevitable
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Every other explantion is based upon the worldview or philosophy of others, the states, religion, popular opinion, peer pressure, morality etc.
All these things are external and distracting from the lessons within ourselves. Other people and their notions can at times be a mirror but mostly they are a warped mirror or a mere distraction.
So when you get right down to it, when you comprehend that everything external is a distraction, eventually it becomes more purposeful and worthwhile to labour toward an internal cause to understand one's self, one's own mind and drives and the origin of them so as to know better how to proceed.
'Meaning' and value systems in general are mostly ingrained by others upon us, thats why hollywood likes films about rebels and we like to watch them and identify partly with them because rebels reject others worldviews and system of ethics and consequently are judged by most of us westerners as being more free in some way because of this.
For some of us, having children or getting married are forms of knowing ourselves more. Children encourage a level of curiosity about our own childhood that we never exhibited previously as we begin to formulate the correlation between who we were, are and will be and thus perhaps guess more accurately who our children might be and why there are differences.
Being in a relationship helps us to understand more about ourselves as we have a more impartial judge that is motivated by love to help guide us and remind of unpleasant truths about ourselves that might otherwise block from our memory through subconscious choice.
Some people go to a shrink and try to face parts of themselves they hope to comprehend and understand more fully so they are not so divided.
Some of us want to accomplish deeds of worth so that others in the future may know us more clearly though deeds, art, history all lie and people see only what they want to and thus all attempts to teach others who we are , are generally doomed to failure and not worth as much as learning who we are.
Some of us turn to religion in order to subscribe to a sense of truth of all mankind that they feel they can dress themselves in to be a better person in a one size fits all fashion.
Some of us seek out wild hedonistic or violent experiences and again these are all undertaken ( knowingly or not ) in order to know who we are more.
'To thine own self be true'
'Know thyself'
There are many other quotes relating to this very simple truth of life but I won't bore you anymore.
The problem is, whilst the theory is pretty simple, the application of it is involved enough to demand a lifetime of work
r.
Whilst we live in a world where we are nothing like every other species.. I still believe its our main purpose -- or maybe we're just a big television show for the aliens, hehe.
I don't see how religion can come into it, at all really. I mean what can a religion say?
Rorshach, well said.
r.
I think each individual has their own meaning. I think to say that to procreate is our meaning but that's just silly, we're beyond that right now. I know urges such as that still affect us subconciously but it's not one's purpose. Especially being intelligent beings. I think everyone reaches a point where they just realise why they're here. What they really want to accomplish, and what other things really are just an unimportant waste of their life. I also believe that this meaning can change, from when you feel that your meaning relies on your job, then maybe you value family more once you have kids, and you care about raising them.
For me right now the meaning of my life is to create art. It's what drives me and it's what i desire to do. Anyways that's just my oppinion on this crazy question!
The meaning of life is quite simple i think, just like a dog or an ant, we're part of the big picture... or were until we evolved out of it, we're really of no good to the ecosystem nowadays and contribute nothing. Unless of course, you want to argue that we're the means of mother nature to expand it's reach beyond earth and everything is working as intended (unless we blow ourselves up).
That's our meaning really, we're part of an ecosystem.
Our greatest contribution to life will be dying and feeding the ground. As sad as it is, i think we all agree that the world would be better off without us nowadays.
What's left is: what the heck should you do with your life, that's imo the real question, can't influence the rest, that's given through millenia of evolution.
Aaaaand the answer is: Whatever floats your boat. Have fun and enjoy life as if it was the only life you'll ever have.
Breed tiny humans, dance all night, join a monastery, help other people, play games. Whatever YOU want and makes you feel good and better, smarter, superior, luckier and more important than the guy sitting besides you (if that floats your boat).
the meaning or purpose of life is procreation. this hasn't really changed even though we have 'evolved.' same as every other species on the planet.
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So the purpose of life is to create more life? That logic is a bit circular, isn't it?
Like Verm said, I think it is a mistake to assume that there is a purpose at all; maybe there is, maybe there isn't. "Purpose" and "meaning" are human concepts--nothing has any inherent meaning or purpose beyond the meaning that we assign it. Life has meaning if you find meaning in life.
I once had a discussion with a Christian who said that he believed people who don't believe in God must believe that life is meaningless, and therefore their lives are meaningless. My response (I'm not an athiest, but I am agnostic) was that if he sees their lives as being meaningless, then he must be the one who believes life is meaningless, because he's the one associating meaning (or a lack thereof) to their lives. He disagreed of course, but I don't necessarily believe in God and I have no trouble at all finding infinite meaning and purpose in life.
Through my life i have noticed how a lot of people try to tell others what to do in order to make themselves happy, which is normaly where things come unstuck. If you cant be happy with yourself , you wont be happy at all.
roughly equated to 42 (sorry)
the meaning or purpose of life is procreation. this hasn't really changed even though we have 'evolved.' same as every other species on the planet.
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So what about animals that cannot mate or reproduce? Liek Mules? Have they no meaning?
I pretty much have 2 answers:
To live life as best you can, to love and respect one another and most of all be true to yourself.
The other answer is one that I can't really articulate, it's more of a feeling. The times I have had these are when I've seen my newborn neices and nephews for the first time, and it's like a moment of clarity where everything just seems to have it's own purpose.
A conversation that a couple of workmates and myself had a few nights ago whilst drunk sorta came to this topic, but in a different way- Just like Groundhog Day, if you had to live the same day over and over again, where would you be and what would you do?
Sorry if I'm rambling, I'm hungover and at work on a bloody sunday :P
Oh wait - wrong question...
apart from the grim reaper bit, and the bit just before it
I kind of liked that and the book made me think about the big questions ,im not religeous but I think that when we make contact with other civilizations someday we will find that most if not all advanced species are looking for the same things " why are we here and where are we going "
Ive been reading lately about cutting edge physics and how they are finding that the universe from the smallest objects like particles (waves) to Galactic Super Clusters all resemble the same sort of complex fractle in nature . Which in itself has a meaning it would seem to me
Man's purpose is to have Joy. That pretty much is in tune with what everyone is saying. Just be happy, Make choices that will lead you in the direction of true happiness.
Every animal and organisim has their purpose and function in this world, but there is no creature quite like man, what is his "Job" in the great web of life? Simply to be happy I say.
Surely it's "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women"?
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Conan has his own movies, comics, followers... he must be right!
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They say that they do " Galactic construction " and they plane to close of a section of the universe and form a new universe to see what happens . They say that they are still calculating pie and that it has a kind of hidden messege after a few trillion decimel points but, they are still calculating it . Pretty much the book has a religeous over-tone
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I'm not sure religious people like hearing that a simple mortal evolved race can recreate a universe, that would go far beyond cloning, and that already gives us headaches
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we will find that most if not all advanced species are looking for the same things " why are we here and where are we going "
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assuming they're bored enough to care about that and worry about the same things we do. Any race capable of creating new planets (of universes even), or even just do some terraforming and be able to plant new life on a planet will not really care about those questions imo.
One day, the new life they planted or engineered will have evolved to lets say, our level, and will be wondering where they came from and where they're going, dreaming of a bigger picture...
The original aliens will know that there's no bigger picture for them. Knowing that life can be created without having some great divine purpose makes life a very trivial thing and really beats the crap out of dreamers.
Also, if they are advanced enough they should be able to find out whether the universe is expanding/contracting or not, which should tell a lot about it's origins by itself. If you even knew in what direction is expanding you could even go to the center of it or the border and see what's there. Gosh, for any race looking to create a new small universe that should be a small thing to do and would give them a lot of answers.
1: Nobody said the aliens were mortal they don't say what they are they take the form of her father just like in the movie. However it does hint that his paticular species is billions of years old and very likely any species who has survived that long has long since shed mortality.
2: How could any race become bored with finding where and why unless they know everything ? That was my whole statement that's what life is about and that is why all Sentient life will most likely be like us at least in that aspect. Maybe they close off a pieec of the universe to better understand where and why..who knows .
3: How can they fly to the edge of the universe and see who is there it's not like a house you can look out window ! If you did try to fly to the edge and it was expanding you would never reach the edge because it's expanding at the speed of light ! If it was contracting once you got to the edge you would be destroyed as the edge would over take you and your matter would probebly be unravled like when you are in the proximity of a black hole .
Anyways regardless of what they did until they found the creator if there is one they could close a 100 small universes and still always have questions . Besides it's an endless paradox. If we humans create sentient life like in the Matrix when the AI of the machines become self aware yet they take us over and capture us and create " The Matrix " in order to enslave us and use us as batteries the Matrix it's self would be a kind of enclosed universe created artificially. On that school of thought you could create a Matrix within the Matrix in the machines allowed it . There could be a million alternative matrix for each human . Maybe that same paradox lies behind our own universe ?? Maybe that's why aliens would never be able to reach the maker because it lies 1000's of level beyond even there own advanced technology ..hmm it's deffinatly a brain fryer . Im not to worried about what the religeous folk think though cause they still believe there is a guy with a white beard in the sky judging there every move ..cause you know the creator of the universe cares about what you do every second of everyday .
I agree with strangefate and pogonip, i see it as a little of both. I dont see us careing anyless about those questions, and we can go to other planets. Science and tech dont change the fact that we are still human, and will always wonder why things are the way they are. Even if we know what came before it will never tell us why.
As for the creator bit at the end, thats what the rest of humanitys does.
3: How can they fly to the edge of the universe and see who is there it's not like a house you can look out window ! If you did try to fly to the edge and it was expanding you would never reach the edge because it's expanding at the speed of light ! If it was contracting once you got to the edge you would be destroyed as the edge would over take you and your matter would probebly be unravled like when you are in the proximity of a black hole .
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Obviously, if they are billions of years old, have long since shed mortality, can isolate or recreate small universes (which implies that they have a great understanding of it, you need to contain it, stop it's expansion within the set bounds and know what it takes to make one) and can bring humans to them at speeds greater than light (i guess?) then they certainly should be able to solve such little problems ?.
If the inside of a blackhole was still unreacheable for them they wouldn't be trying to play around with a whole universe.
The universe itself is a bag full of clues.
It seems that the book implies that they know so much that they are close to creating an own small universe, yet with all that knowledge and power they don't seem to know anything about their own universe ?
To say that we'll be always looking for an answer implies that we'll never agree on anything, which, unless the different religions go away, will really never change.
Otherwise, after a billion years from now we should be able to tell for sure if Adam and Eva or chimps were our predecessors, either through examination of the past with better tools or repetition of evolution in other planets.
It should be by then clear enough to rule out (or not, who knows) any direct intervention.
We will be still looking at the origins of the universe, but our own origin should be pretty clear someday... earlier than in a billion years from now.
The universe is just a bigger sandbox, but still one full of clues.
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It seems that the book implies that they know so much that they are close to creating an own small universe, yet with all that knowledge and power they don't seem to know anything about their own universe ?
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Ha , well it's a book and who really cares about details its all fictional ..it was just the messege that struck me . I just tend to agree with the notion that we are here to seek the maker(s). Which compliments any religeon as all religeons seek the same thing , and regardless of technological advancement we may never find all the answers which would give all sentient life in the universe commonality regardless of how advanced they are .
42!
you guys utterly fail as nerds. i am disappointed.
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Haha, Gauss I almost died laughing there...
Life has meaning if you find meaning in life.
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i love that sentence, KeyserSoze.
status on the offical meaning of life: unknown
i find myself, somehow inhabiting a complex system comprised of systems as a system; born into existence as a human being. don't ask me how any of this has happened, because i couldn't say.
so what's the meaning; why have i been put into existence?
after that, how has this happened and what is responsible? what is existence and where did it come from? what makes it?
after asking questions and receiving no answers, you have to search out the answers yourself.
it's fun how close life resembles that of an authorless complex videogame with no manual.
i see it as we are presented with the problem of not knowing. whether it was intentional is unkown. whether you are judged for your reaction to this problem, is unknown. sadly that's all i've lived by. that is as far as the meaning and origin of life goes with me.
[/ QUOTE ] So what about animals that cannot mate or reproduce? Liek Mules? Have they no meaning?
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i guess they don't.
'Mules can be used in exactly the same sports as horses - under saddle, in harness, for cutting, roping or dressage. In actuality, they have more stamina and can carry more weight than a horse of equal size. This is due to the hybrid vigor. There is one particular aspect where the mule actually outshines the horse, and that is high-jumping.'
If we cross races and breed new things, the reason of their existence will be the one we give them obviously.
If you give something freedom of choice (allthough even that is a very disputeable thing) it can have no fixed meaning.
If I give my monitor the freedom of choice (example) it cannot really furfill its meaning because it could choose not to even if it doesn't know why it is shining.
a fixed meaning is no freedom of choice
freedom of choice is no fixed meaning
If you as human have apparently found your meaning of life you just don't one day decide that that is the meaning of life, you have to commit yourself to it, you have to dedicate yourself to that meaning everyday if you wan't to go by it.
I personally don't belive that but that has no meaning
If you seriously wan't to look into the philosophical side of it I would advise you to read through the work of theese people because this topic is getting very empiric
Aristoteles - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristoteles
Epikur - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epikur
Platon - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platon
*huge jump*
Thomas Hobbes - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbes (for all ,who like it dirty
John Locke - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke (very interesting for the americans)
David Hume - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hume (very important)
Kant - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kant (even MORE important)
I should be leaving out Hegel, Fichte and Schelling but the main thoughts are very intersting so I´m going to post at least Hegel . Check them out on Wiki if you feel like it.
Hegel - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegel
The next one is my personal favourite and his view still stands in its own context as undisputeable. Though his life is not that of an openminded person his thoughts are moreso open and touch every aspect of life in a shocking real manner.
Schopenhauer - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schopenhauer
Please look into his work more intense, allthough at first very shocking and seemingly pessimistic it is a very strong and peacefull streign of thoughts. I would advise to read "World as Will and Representation" first.
I will leave it at that now because I haven't gone further yet with my private studys (left out alot here though, let alone to speak about religion), I seriously hope you look into the recomendations and if that question really interest you you should not be to lazy to dive into this great field of knowlege.
ok I can't leave him out
Have fun