Oxy you still havnt told us your motive behind this thread. I assume you look for a game where minority main character gets mistreated because hes a minority but WHY?
There are movies where minorities get mistreated so set your eyes there if you want to see if its ok or whatever you are after.
Player can be mistreated but cant mistreat because of race. So you cant make kkk simulator but you can make a game where you as a black guy fight kkk. Least thats what i think because apparently for some people character=player so if your character is racist then you are and developer is the devil who created it blah blah.
there was a really good commentary on basically the same problem in the comics world (which suffers from overrepresentation of male, white, and superhero interest ), how very few characters, particularly main characters were of a significant ethnic variation. i forget who wrote it, but they pointed out that the problem stems back to the writers/creators. it's best to write from what you know, to write from your own experience--and since most of the writers/creators of video games are also white (and male), that's what we get.
from the designers' perspective, i think when we get a more diverse selection of designers and creators (and not just ethnic variation for the sake of variation, of course), we can see more authentic and enjoyable portrayal of difference characters and viewpoints. we would all benefit from more racial/ethnic diversity as well as more female designers/characters.
san andreas has the lead as a black person, and haven't you read about african american groups getting angry over his portrayal? nobody was complaining too much when it was white guys doing it. well, they complained, but not about the ethnicity.
Toomas
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Oxy you still havnt told us your motive behind this thread. I assume you look for a game where minority main character gets mistreated because hes a minority but WHY?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because I want to see where we are lacking. How our medium can gain more definition than a 2d comic book (BTW Gauss don't forget Spawn was a African American.. Written and drawn by a caucasion - Mcfarlane).
Don't you want it to grow beyond being simple seen as a game? This is the next "movie" medium. I know for a fact I am not the only one who shares this view. There was a local IGDA I went to that the discussion talked about how making the "Shakespere" of games. (I can give you a link to the powerpoint discourse if you like)
As it is. I also am thinking of future arguments I might get into over games and race. I volunteer in a very multicultural environment. And thus the question of how far race is played in games could be brought up. Frankly on a personal level it does bother me I have no good answers to give. Thats why I came to the community hoping you all could help with a good discourse. As those same questions will be asked of me, I pass to you. What I wont do is try the excuses that some have been giving. They wont buy it, and neither do I.
Just give me some substance. k?
So thus far we have minority characters. What we lack is a minority perspective YET in a game. Is that fair enough to say?
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There are movies where minorities get mistreated so set your eyes there if you want to see if its ok or whatever you are after.
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Again they would say "We are talking about games not movies". As it is, are you saying we can't grow into and beyond this reach? I would hope we would have more hope and ideas for the future versus just replays of where we have been. The serious game summit show how this industry is growing.
Just give it time.
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Rorshach, simple enough. Fuck off. Stop stirring shit up and trying to label me. Im really tired of your antics. As it is your being a hypocrite even posting the above because by doing so you are getting "in" with the "pigs".
Oxy: It would be appreciated if you would fuck off. This is just another thread where you've failed to make a solid point, and again asked a vague question that cannot be answered. Seriously, What in the hell are you talking about? Make a valid discussion would ya.
From what I've read, you want a game from the perspective of a minority, written and developed by a minority, so it can be played by a minority...and in practice, giving the minority the respect it deserves while educating the world about racism.
Last I heard, minorities are more likely to live in poverty. Why would they waste their hard earned money playing a game that only reminds them of the hardships they face with racism? I think there are more important needs in life, such as feeding the kids, and putting them through school. I'm sure Black Electronic Arts (BEA) would profit heavily from your innovative thinking.
Here's some ideas that integrate game with racism.
How about SimSouthernPlantation?
Or Tribes: Reservation. very educational.
MechAssault: Mexican Border
Games are games. There are demons, and they seem to be your own. African-Americans dominate sports, skinny white boys dominate games.
On a small note about perspective. In a fighting game such as Soul CaliburII, I always pick the skinny white girl, while my girlfriend picks the enormous green monster.
If you read the thread you would see >nowhere< have I mentioned
"
-written and developed by a minority,
-so it can be played by a minority"
So please before telling me to fuck off read what I have to say versus making me a puppet for your own opposite viewpoint. I would appreciate if you bowed out of this discussion as you have nothing to contribute.
I don't think the race of a character is/will be, much of a factor, unless it is part of the "Story". But in general the characters in the game will either exemplify the cultural ideal, or the cultural ideal of those making the game, unless the design, or the needs of the "story" dictate otherwise.
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I'm surprised no-one has brought this one up yet...one of the best character designs from the past years, too: Jade, from Beyond Good and Evil.
She's definitely not white, and she behaves exactly like someone with her ethnicity should: like a fucking /person/.
[/ QUOTE ]She's very European looking, but that still classifies her as a caucasian. She is however a strong, intelligent and extremely well designed female character, and the dev team should certainly be applauded for that.
Replies
There are movies where minorities get mistreated so set your eyes there if you want to see if its ok or whatever you are after.
Player can be mistreated but cant mistreat because of race. So you cant make kkk simulator but you can make a game where you as a black guy fight kkk. Least thats what i think because apparently for some people character=player so if your character is racist then you are and developer is the devil who created it blah blah.
All oxy's posts have no point other than to shit stir.
Remember Matt's words 'Don't wrestle with a pig, you're only going to get dirty and the pig likes it' !
from the designers' perspective, i think when we get a more diverse selection of designers and creators (and not just ethnic variation for the sake of variation, of course), we can see more authentic and enjoyable portrayal of difference characters and viewpoints. we would all benefit from more racial/ethnic diversity as well as more female designers/characters.
She's definitely not white, and she behaves exactly like someone with her ethnicity should: like a fucking /person/.
[ QUOTE ]
Oxy you still havnt told us your motive behind this thread. I assume you look for a game where minority main character gets mistreated because hes a minority but WHY?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because I want to see where we are lacking. How our medium can gain more definition than a 2d comic book (BTW Gauss don't forget Spawn was a African American.. Written and drawn by a caucasion - Mcfarlane).
Don't you want it to grow beyond being simple seen as a game? This is the next "movie" medium. I know for a fact I am not the only one who shares this view. There was a local IGDA I went to that the discussion talked about how making the "Shakespere" of games. (I can give you a link to the powerpoint discourse if you like)
As it is. I also am thinking of future arguments I might get into over games and race. I volunteer in a very multicultural environment. And thus the question of how far race is played in games could be brought up. Frankly on a personal level it does bother me I have no good answers to give. Thats why I came to the community hoping you all could help with a good discourse. As those same questions will be asked of me, I pass to you. What I wont do is try the excuses that some have been giving. They wont buy it, and neither do I.
Just give me some substance. k?
So thus far we have minority characters. What we lack is a minority perspective YET in a game. Is that fair enough to say?
[ QUOTE ]
There are movies where minorities get mistreated so set your eyes there if you want to see if its ok or whatever you are after.
[/ QUOTE ]
Again they would say "We are talking about games not movies". As it is, are you saying we can't grow into and beyond this reach? I would hope we would have more hope and ideas for the future versus just replays of where we have been. The serious game summit show how this industry is growing.
Just give it time.
:::::::::
Rorshach, simple enough. Fuck off. Stop stirring shit up and trying to label me. Im really tired of your antics. As it is your being a hypocrite even posting the above because by doing so you are getting "in" with the "pigs".
From what I've read, you want a game from the perspective of a minority, written and developed by a minority, so it can be played by a minority...and in practice, giving the minority the respect it deserves while educating the world about racism.
Last I heard, minorities are more likely to live in poverty. Why would they waste their hard earned money playing a game that only reminds them of the hardships they face with racism? I think there are more important needs in life, such as feeding the kids, and putting them through school. I'm sure Black Electronic Arts (BEA) would profit heavily from your innovative thinking.
Here's some ideas that integrate game with racism.
How about SimSouthernPlantation?
Or Tribes: Reservation. very educational.
MechAssault: Mexican Border
Games are games. There are demons, and they seem to be your own. African-Americans dominate sports, skinny white boys dominate games.
On a small note about perspective. In a fighting game such as Soul CaliburII, I always pick the skinny white girl, while my girlfriend picks the enormous green monster.
my girlfriend picks the enormous green monster.
[/ QUOTE ]
She's a racist. Dump her.
"
-written and developed by a minority,
-so it can be played by a minority"
So please before telling me to fuck off read what I have to say versus making me a puppet for your own opposite viewpoint. I would appreciate if you bowed out of this discussion as you have nothing to contribute.
Scott
I'm surprised no-one has brought this one up yet...one of the best character designs from the past years, too: Jade, from Beyond Good and Evil.
She's definitely not white, and she behaves exactly like someone with her ethnicity should: like a fucking /person/.
[/ QUOTE ]She's very European looking, but that still classifies her as a caucasian. She is however a strong, intelligent and extremely well designed female character, and the dev team should certainly be applauded for that.