EA employee's spouse comments on crunch
polycounter lvl 18
http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/
I know similar topics have been covered here but was curious to hear more insight on the subject from everyone here. At my last studio we had crunch for a year and was told it was mandatory and if you're not here you're fired essentially. The game shipped (barely) but in the process I went through a bad breakup with my fiance and was laid off with a majority of our staff right after launch. It's been several months and I'm still feeling the backlash from those events from getting into a deeper financial hole and still looking for employment not to mention the world changing events inflicted on someone you spent years with.
Ultimately I think there is a balance to be found. With the passion and enjoyment that comes from working in games it's hard to draw a line and say my day ends here. It's going to spill over in some areas. I knew the risks involved and would take them again. But it's unfortunate to see the damage that can be taken.
I know similar topics have been covered here but was curious to hear more insight on the subject from everyone here. At my last studio we had crunch for a year and was told it was mandatory and if you're not here you're fired essentially. The game shipped (barely) but in the process I went through a bad breakup with my fiance and was laid off with a majority of our staff right after launch. It's been several months and I'm still feeling the backlash from those events from getting into a deeper financial hole and still looking for employment not to mention the world changing events inflicted on someone you spent years with.
Ultimately I think there is a balance to be found. With the passion and enjoyment that comes from working in games it's hard to draw a line and say my day ends here. It's going to spill over in some areas. I knew the risks involved and would take them again. But it's unfortunate to see the damage that can be taken.
Replies
I had inside info at a GNomon class I attended.
That has to be the most truthfull statement about EA I've ever heard. I've hated that company for years. Not because of this, I had no idea the working conditions were like that. I hated them because they just come out with the un-inspired festering piles of shit every year.
In any business the largest cost is salary. Why hire double the artists when you can just make the ones you have work twice as hard? As businesses get larger the tend to get less human. When the corporation cares more for the stockholders than their employees that when the exploitation starts.
HellMark- "...if you're not here you're fired essentially"
Did you get overtime? 12*7-40= 44h!
Couldn't you sue them for false dismissal?
Here's a thought- Unionize
eepberries: careful what you say there buddy. Whatever your dislike of the corporate monster that is EA, at least 4 or 5 or more folks on these boards worked on those 'festering piles of shit' that you speak of.
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Well I'm not criticizing the artists and programmers of the game. They're most likely the pawns of the operation (that's just my guess though, of course). The overall execution of the game will be good. The graphics will look good, and the presentation will be good. The problem is that the actual game itself will probably suck and be nothing more than the same thing the company sold last year with one or two added "OMG FEATURES!!1"
This thread was about EAs working hours practises, not the quality of their games.
This is a really unhealthy culture for the whole industry and It always pisses me off to hear about stuff like this.
Im not going to buy anymore EA games from now on.
Except Sims 2, just so I can get some time alone at the couth with a beer. :P
/Palm
tpe
I've noticed that some people in the industry are a bit prone to depression and emotional disorders. (as are some people on this board) What happens when a few of their own employees start whacking themselves, or one gets really pissed off and takes a gun to work? Or perhaps a few die from stress-related disease? I'll tell you what.
Multi-Million dollar lawsuits. Bilion-Dollar Class-Action lawsuits. Stock value goes down the toilet.
You can only push people so hard before they can't take it anymore. In these situations, most people will just quit. But some people will die from it. And employers that helped to cause this type of situation will pay for it dearly. It'll be a terrible lesson to learn, but I think that this is inevitable if some companies don't change their ways.
"And employers that helped to cause this type of situation will pay for it dearly"
You'd think that might be the case, but thanks to Bush and his cronies and the passing of prop 64, class action lawsuits will probably become a thing of the past. I dont think the big corporations have anything to worry about. They have the govmnt. on their side, unlike the workers.
As for suing I heard some people were considering it but most of us just wanted to move on and find something better for ourselves and learn from the experience. Besides the studio had no money to give and filed Chapter 11 recently.
I'm hoping a good change can come from all this. I don't have much stake right now since I'm not working but I'd definitely be willing to do what I can to help make it better. Word of mouth I think can help but isn't the end all for an answer. Everyone here has been pretty discreet and honest (one of the things I like about coming here)about some of the bad experiences at certain studios. What they said has made me gun shy of some studios for sure. I wonder if that type of information affects the type of talent a studio can get and/or keep the talent they have long term.
They are taking advantage of that. They also know that lots of never-had-this-kinda-job are waiting for yours to open up so if you don't like it you can be replaced.
You don't need a union. You need to change the mindset of the people on this message board who have yet to get a job.
I've worked less hours at my job when helicopters are grounded in Iraq and are needing parts we are supplying!
Sheesh!
Though I agree that if they spend so much time on there games they should be on par with what Blizzard is doing or another top studio . I think only Madden Football has that kind of respect ?
Remember somewhere our union's sewing, our wages going to feed the kids, and run the house.
We work hard, but who's complaining? Thanks to the I.L.G. we're paying our way!
So always look for the union label, it says we're able to make it in the U.S.A.!
heh heh
I think Unions can be good. They were good for the auto industry in the early part of the 20th century now they are useless as far as the auto industry goes. In the auto industry, now the Unions are the bad guys. UPS workers went on strike to allow the Teamsters (mafia) to run their Union. (What a bunch of idiots UPS employees are! Sincerely they deserve all they get now) Unions are good in my opinion when there is some diservice being done. After a while they outlive their usefullness and just become a drain.
I'm not for Unions at all, but you game employees need to get something together wether it be a Union or just a bit of unity. 12 hour days 7 days a weeks is bullshit. I can see maybe one or two weeks of it, but you guys do put up with way to much crap!
Or get a heart attack by the age of 35, not knowing where you kids go to school, etc etc etc..:P
/Palm
You need to change the mindset of the people on this message board who have yet to get a job.
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I'm convinced. There are just too many responsibilities in my real life that would prevent me from taking that sort of abuse. From my past experiences with part-time jobs, I try to do the best I can, to the point that the company realizes I'm a valuable worker. I'm needed. Then, they'll work along with my needs, or they'll lose me.
It seems in order to succeed in the game industry, you need to be along that level. Having the talent and respect that allows you to stand up for yourself, so the company respects your needs for fear of losing you.
Many of the "kids" looking for their dream job in games, have just enough ability to be hired. Expendable youth. Too bad the quality shows in the product. Similar to how the ability to count will get you a job flipping burgers, while knowledge and skill will land a stable job as gourmet chef.
I'll wait a few more years.
Most of us refuse after a few years to do too much crunch but the flipside of that is because companies like EA already control most of those companies where people are perhaps standing up for their rights, not putting in those hours causes the companies game to bomb or get canned and then the company gets canned.
It's all well and good saying we should stand together, but in this day and age you can't get 6 people to agree on the color of shite let alone a few thousand to agree on certain equitable and humanitarian work attitudes that suit all!!
As Daz mentioned, the idealist attitude that when serious crackups occur they will lead to government stepping in is just pure fantasy. It's not like the games industry is the only one being utterly screwed by the degree to which capitalism is being twisted.
Dukester - for someone who is not for unions your shure know that song very well. ya commie
Suing can be a problem too, if the word gets out that you sued your last employer. It could be tough to get new job.
If the co. that work for is young and hurting try this approch -"I will work 12 hours a day in exchange for stock." If they say bugger you then you know what kind of people you are dealing with. and where you stand in their eyes. If the are true entertainment purists they should let nothing stand in the way of the completion of their project.
I think the key is profit sharing. A worker who gets a piece of it will work harder. Use unions as a threat.
If these don't work, when upper management leaves at 5 -loot the fucken' place! Not even a doorknob.
"We Hire people based on how much they are worth financially. So your saying you are worth very little then?"
Nice gleam of hope in a sea of assholes.
absolutely NO ONE should have to go through that ever.
anyway, just a thought
They are taking advantage of that. They also know that lots of never-had-this-kinda-job are waiting for yours to open up so if you don't like it you can be replaced.
You don't need a union. You need to change the mindset of the people on this message board who have yet to get a job."
As long as people want to do this for a livning no matter the cost, then dont expect anything to change.
10 years ago I would've given my left nut to be in this industry. I thought the same about animation, until I was in it. fuck 60-80 hour work weeks, especially with the promise of being laid off when the project is over.
The hard part is....If you are not willing to work the hours they deem necessary, then remember someone else is.
Now I see the problem that some in upper management who arent aware that so many people are working those insane house, but they do see
X people + Y time = Z amount of work
They dont realise that Y time is double what people should be working, they just see the outcome. The next project is then sceduled with this imaginary level of productivity in mind.
tpe
http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=8965013
A lot of feedback posts from it as well.
As Rick said there will always be the occasional late nights and/or weekends, something I expect and have no issues with.
Perhaps one big action might help start a change. Someone or some group with enough power that can inflict change maybe. With EA being so high profile it could garner enough attention to give a much needed wake up call.
Edit: Looks like CGTalk is talking about this as well. I know a lot of people here hit those boards but just in case.
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=185703
I know my wife would go nuts if I would work that much.
But then again I would too. There isn't a job in the world that I would like to spend that much time on.
Making game art is great fun but I can imagine that the fun is gone pretty fast if you are forced to make it more than 60 hours per week.
They'd shave a few days off each schedule and leave us back with the schedule we wanted. We thought we were clever, until we realised that we had to LIE because we knew that further up the chain they'd be squeezing us.
the only thing i can thing of that can have a dramtic impact on a large scale would be to make a documentary similar to SUPER SIZE ME.
visuals are one of the most effective means of communication. word of mouth is not enough and unionisation or lawsuits are too time consuming and dont guarantee success. who knows? if more people knew what the little guys and underdogs do to their health and livelihoods just to make games and it became apparent not to just the people that work in the industry or aspire to be in it, then the greater a chance there is for change can be made.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/joestraitiff/
I think people need to stop waiting for a union or a class action lawsuit. Do not wait for someone else to do the legwork for you. If you work at a company that demand long hours and you do not want to, refuse, even if it costs you your job. You probably did not want to work their anyway. Like Daz has said, the power to work acceptable hours is your own.
they asked me if I was o.k with that at my interveiw and of course I said yes, but in the back of my mind I catogorized it into the same place where "giving 120%" lives. If anyone asks I do it. But no one really does.
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=4543
Nothing like bad publicity to shake up the food chain.
I hope there's some major 'executive' firings.......of excutives.
As to unionizing. It probaby won't happen. The Animator's Union lost some key negotiations when the studios found out they could ship the animation to Korea and Japan. (Thundercats' anyone?) the Labor costs moved the output of al the studios but the big three (Dreamworks, Disney, and Warner Feature) offshore. now with Disney spiking their 32D studio and format. All animation is gone, and the animators guild has a lot of unemployed members. The cost of the wages was too high. I for one will not give any money to an organization that contributes to the political opposition.
The other problems with unions in the states, is that they are really infiltrated by Organized Crime. And upon joining a union, you give up some rights, for the "power" of collective bargaining. Unions work well for "essential" industry such as food production, power generation, construction and The like, where they don't do wel are on less essential industries such as Entertainment, and retail industries.
Scott
I also think that more people working in the industry should be more vocal about the working conditions at specific companies. If a company gets a reputation as being a "sweatshop", especially at the school level before kids get this starry-eyed impression of what it's like to work on games, then maybe they'll have a harder time reqruiting and change they're practices. The only thing that will make a company change is if there are negetive consequences for their actions, and right now there aren't any.
Putting my money where my mouth is, the company I worked for that worked us to death and then rewarded all the hard workers by firing them when the project was over was Black Ops in Santa Monica, California. If they're even still making games, stay away unless you're just starting out and need some game experience.
A company that I had a really good experience with was Treyarch, again in Santa Monica. We did work some long hours that I feel could have been avoided with better management, but overall it was bearable and I think it's a good company to be a part of.
Dukester - for someone who is not for unions your shure know that song very well. ya commie
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LOL! I do like the tune! I've been stuck on it for 3 days now!
I think that the only solution is to show the executives that their bottom line will be improved by treating their people better.
http://www.gametab.com/news/174082/
It was filed by an artist at EARS ( incidentally, the statement that he was a member of the Sims2 design team is incorrect ) . I know I said earlier that i didnt think class action lawsuits would save us, because many of us are wary of what this means. It's all a bit uncertain right now. Its been underway for a good long while now and will most likely take years for much of anything to come of it. The ramifications are considerable ( and not all of them necessarily favourable by any means ). Legally Im probably not meant to speak as Im an employee and technically represented by the class action so I'll stfu ( and most likely end up deleting everything Ive written in this thread a bit later ;-p )
Imagine an hot patato like that just before christmas pig billionaire money making machine season.