by being able to model things, you'd already set yourself apart from the endless stream of artists running our of school each year. you wouldn't believe the amount of applications we reject, simply because people are too addicted to zbrush.
by being able to model things, you'd already set yourself apart from the endless stream of artists running our of school each year. you wouldn't believe the amount of applications we reject, simply because people are too addicted to zbrush.
Do you mean sub d modeling for hard surface props is preferred at your studio for high poly work over zbrush hard surface sculpting? I was under the impression that competent hard surface sculpting artists were more sought after considering how challenging that skill is to master.
Personally I pivot between both, so it's more a matter of being able to ascertain what works best depending on the model.
The issue is that I've not actually seen any prop modeler positions at the junior to mid level unless its 3rd party outsourcers like Dekogon. Ubisoft Toronto has Model artists, but at other studios its more specific like Weapons Artist, Vehicle Artist, Hair Artist, Clothing Artist, and sometimes its just Character Artist with the description mentioning that the Artist should have a focus on clothing etc.
I think more than portfolio and skill its really down to networking when you are looking for a job, meaning certainly you need portfolio and skill but it absolutely helps to know people on the inside who are put your PPR in the spotlight.
As far as learning and demonstrating character art goes, there really isn't a ceiling, but a huge disparty in what passes for production work in studio and the standard an artist sets for themselves in personal work. It can become necessary to pivot over to other opportunities to fully use your potential and many are compelled do it as the only means to increase in seniority alongside the salary bump even if the responsibilities of the new position don't necessarily correspond
Well its a little hard to go by what you see online. Kind of like some people are saying in the LinkedIn thread you posted, these positions that are listed externally sometimes get filled internally and you the job seeker essentially wasted your time applying. The ATS system in place also hurts since it'll screen you out before your application is even seen by a person.
With the networking thing I agree. The only jobs I ever got through applying online were minimum wage. Literally every other job I've had that was worth something (career wise, paid more than minimum wage, etc.) I got through networking in person at conventions and such. I know this summer I'm planning to go to another convention where hopefully some companies who need a 3D artist will show up so I can get my foot in the door.
by being able to model things, you'd already set yourself apart from the endless stream of artists running our of school each year. you wouldn't believe the amount of applications we reject, simply because people are too addicted to zbrush.
There are people like that?
But....You can't model for shit in ZBrush. And even that aside, if your skills only extend that far, you can't finish anything, or even just do anything with it except make a static sculpt that sits there doing nothing. I might be a bit fixated on some things, but even I know that.
When it comes to modeling, I'm capable. I haven't done it much in some time, but I can do it. I've been using Blender for a long time. Need to spend more time in Maya, but it's very clunky by comparison.
Well its a little hard to go by what you see online. Kind of like some people are saying in the LinkedIn thread you posted, these positions that are listed externally sometimes get filled internally and you the job seeker essentially wasted your time applying. The ATS system in place also hurts since it'll screen you out before your application is even seen by a person.
With the networking thing I agree. The only jobs I ever got through applying online were minimum wage. Literally every other job I've had that was worth something (career wise, paid more than minimum wage, etc.) I got through networking in person at conventions and such. I know this summer I'm planning to go to another convention where hopefully some companies who need a 3D artist will show up so I can get my foot in the door.
If that's the case, then even if I get my skills up to scratch, it sounds like it won't make a huge amount of difference when nobody's going to pay attention anyway. So how does someone get their foot in the door? I've never been big on self-promotion, but the impression I'm getting is that just being good at what you do isn't enough?
Well its a little hard to go by what you see online. Kind of like some people are saying in the LinkedIn thread you posted, these positions that are listed externally sometimes get filled internally and you the job seeker essentially wasted your time applying. The ATS system in place also hurts since it'll screen you out before your application is even seen by a person.
With the networking thing I agree. The only jobs I ever got through applying online were minimum wage. Literally every other job I've had that was worth something (career wise, paid more than minimum wage, etc.) I got through networking in person at conventions and such. I know this summer I'm planning to go to another convention where hopefully some companies who need a 3D artist will show up so I can get my foot in the door.
If that's the case, then even if I get my skills up to scratch, it sounds like it won't make a huge amount of difference when nobody's going to pay attention anyway. So how does someone get their foot in the door? I've never been big on self-promotion, but the impression I'm getting is that just being good at what you do isn't enough?
I'd definitely look into creating some work samples to the best of your ability with whatever approach you feel most comfortable with and then seek out critique and mentorship from a senior artist (preferably in the studio you want to join)
would be very useful in this regard, like the reach out anytime database, and of course posting work here helps too.
And yes it is true given the market and the general subjectivity around art that your application may not hold muster. For portfolio I would try to capture a concept and style perfectly and tailor it to a studio so atleast that way you are assured after a mentor consultation that your work is sound and if you are still rejected it isn't because of your work. I.e you work has hit the minimum expected standard.
What you do beyond that and how much it impacts an application is debatable. It is a fact that knowing others does help a great deal, so your artwork is there to make the statement about you. It is your self promotion so that you are taken seriously regardless of if the application works out and you get hired or not.
Depending on your location, I would look out for industry events and mixers.
You are also doing Scott Eatons course, besides Scott are there any other instructors/mentors that frequent the forum and work with students? This I ask because Scott Eaton may be difficult to reach out to, though that course is more to help establish fundamentals of anatomy, I'm not sure how much it would help from a job perspective, though certainly the certificate should carry some weight once you have it up on your linkedin.
One other way is that you can look through linkedin for character artists who have done the course (or even right here on polycount) and dm them for mentorship and feedback, or just start a conversation with them being honest about where you are in your development. I'm not sure how effective this would be, but the reach out anytime database is a guaranteed 30 min free consultation from artists currently in the industry with several in AAA studios.
All in all it does help to have a time line outlining when you looking to start working in the industry. For me the ideal would have been joining in when my portfolio wasn't the greatest but demonstrated competancy that was sufficient to get hired and that I was vouched for my connections inside the industry. Then I would make the most of this opportunity to improve my art and grow my network to achieve some stability (if that is the intention)
And yes a lot does come down to luck and factors that the studio has more control over, so its important to manage a balance between your art work and skill development and studio expectations. Does help to do some research into studios and the candidates that have been recently hired, then contact those candidates to get a good idea if your portfolio is meeting the requirements should positions become available.
Helps to do this early, and yes you would need some sample art work to make that initial ask. I find that many artists get obsessed with portfolio perfection and don't put enough time and effort into networking and improving their visibility.
Well its a little hard to go by what you see online. Kind of like some people are saying in the LinkedIn thread you posted, these positions that are listed externally sometimes get filled internally and you the job seeker essentially wasted your time applying. The ATS system in place also hurts since it'll screen you out before your application is even seen by a person.
With the networking thing I agree. The only jobs I ever got through applying online were minimum wage. Literally every other job I've had that was worth something (career wise, paid more than minimum wage, etc.) I got through networking in person at conventions and such. I know this summer I'm planning to go to another convention where hopefully some companies who need a 3D artist will show up so I can get my foot in the door.
I wouldn't say its time wasted, every application you make counts and most studio's really do keep your profile in their database for future opportunities.
There is the perspective that a rejection means "portfolio is not good enough", "there are other artists better than you" and while this might be the case, its important to go with facts that are actually transparent. i.e if a studio gets your application and the recruiter reaches out to inquire for additional information like "can you do creature art?" "do you have examples of addtional styles" that is information you can work with.
A boiler plate rejection sent on a no reply email, doesn't mean your PPR is lacking in general, for that instance maybe, or the job was pulled and the studio collapses the day after. If its important for an artist to confirm that their PPR was a problem, they should reach out on linkedin to artists at the studio and ask. And there's a lot you can gauge simply by researching the PPR of artists that are currrently working at the studio.
You can use this tool to replicate ATS scans so you can check your resume for issues, https://www.jobscan.co/
I got my first industry job as a QA tester through a referral from a QA lead I met while volunteering at a Japanese food festival, and though the requirements for QA were far below my skill set and experience, my experience as a QA tester was valued when I was interviewed for a character artist position at EA. I had applied through the online system for the EA character artist position and it took 2 years and Covid before I got an interview. (during those 2 years I did QA and worked on my portfolio) And my work responsibilities at EA were a mix of character art and art asset management and maintenance so it was very Character Art QA and this is something I have seen at other studios.
You very rarely do start from scratch atleast in AAA as an character artist employee in studio, and if there have been cases where artists have been asked to single handedly create characters exactly like they do in their portfolio and given full control, freedom and flexibility at a junior to mid level, I have yet to witness it.
The only artists I can say got this responisibility were outsourcing studios who likely also use basemeshes and repurposing exisiting assets from libraries, mainly because it is efficient and they have to deal with large volumes of work with a low price to model ratio. The studios with higher/better price to model ratio are few and far between and mostly freelance collectives like Keos Masons who run like a botique studio. I have seen several instances where hero character art is made by them among others, and character artists in studio make re-skins (prop/clothing) and work with animators and tech artists to integrate the models into the game engine.
While at school there was the general perspective that you have to be top/god tier stellar artist with senior level work to get hired because your work was incredible/spectacular and got many likes on artstation. And this approach led to some interesting content like this,
I do feel that it helps to have a more balanced approach since its easy to lose yourself in the pursuit of perfection. This cinematic was made as part of course work 9 years ago and I can also confidently say that some of the artists behind this are now senior artists at various studios including AAA and got their foot in the door at local studios because of referrals from their teachers. Is their work much better now? Certainly, did this cinematic impede getting that foot in the door, not quite.
So the game dev school is shit, teaches you nothing and your artwork is garbage didn't matter since it was the connections that mattered more, and there have been several instances just like this to this day. That said any experience even if it creates content like the above is a good teacher, and its vital to keep up with current tech and workflows and leverage what you can to better yourself as an artist.
Good example of how varied the standard of proficiency expected is. The prize for this competition is a 3/4 month apprenticeship at 19$/hr as a model artist at Ubisoft Toronto. A few classmates I knew won this and their responsibilities were similar to artists on the environment and internal prop art teams.
I did not see any listings for junior model artist at any point on their career page. A few classmates were hired as model artists, though I believe these openings were created exclusively to accomodate them because of the connections they had internally. There is a lisiting for senior prop artist at the montreal studio https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/company/careers/search/743999981438036-senior-modeler-props-assassin-s-creed-projet- Though its requirements are lower than those expected for a senior which is confusing to me.
The ontario government provides 300,000$ per candidate as part of its funding initiative exclusive to Ubisoft for new hires local to toronto. https://kotaku.com/not-everyone-thrilled-by-ubisoft-toronto-deal-5312873 Not entirely sure how this is allocated per candidate, my classmates who won the apprenticeship were made full time for $40,000 per year after and this was in 2016.
Model artist is the closest I've seen to prop artist without being called prop artist. From the NXT showcase videos you can track the career progression of candidates on linkedin to gain better understand of where this opportunity led the winners and finalists and even explore their portfolios to know how being at a studio impacted their artistic development. Connecting with them on linkedin is also advised especially for applicants based in toronto.
" There is nothing wrong with doing characters and plenty of people get hired in their first 3D job as a character artist. You simply need to get good at it and market your stuff to the right people, pretty much as you would for any kind of job."
sorry for late reply , but is this really true ? i mean i never saw 1 single job that says " junior character artist " also all the great character artists i see in artstation have like at least +3 years of experience in industry doing props , hardsurface etc ..
" There is nothing wrong with doing characters and plenty of people get hired in their first 3D job as a character artist. You simply need to get good at it and market your stuff to the right people, pretty much as you would for any kind of job."
sorry for late reply , but is this really true ? i mean i never saw 1 single job that says " junior character artist " also all the great character artists i see in artstation have like at least +3 years of experience in industry doing props , hardsurface etc ..
I was hired in my first AAA job as a character artist and my task was working on player heads for FIFA 23/FC 24
My coworkers came from a variety of backgrounds and all of them had different hiring experiences, from my lead who works on marvel/dc statues and came from a background in construction, to coworkers with backgrounds in finance/CRA/accounting and another from QA who happened to meet a lead in the cafeteria and was transfered to the character team.
In fact I would say that while every character artist on the team had some understanding of anatomy and fundamentals, as part of the character team they were assigned work based on their strengths. So there wasn't a gated "have to do this course/certification" approach at EA, maybe its different at other studios. You could do character skins (uniforms) for the entire contract and you could still call yourself a character artist.
So I was assigned a mix of head/hair creation and database management given my background in QA and patient records in dentistry.
There was ample time alloted to learning the pipeline and if you wanted to be assigned to other departments you could pursue a learning path with your managers approval.
This was in complete contrast to the top tier/senior level work advice that I've heard around polycount and linkedin, not to say that one shouldn't strive for that level of quality if one has the time, but whether that translates directly to senior level responsibility and more importantly senior level pay is debatable and really dependent on the budget and headcount at the studio. Its important to hit the minimum requirements of any job listing, so having portfolio work does matter there when it comes to style requested or if there is speciific focus on hair/clothing. But honestly if the stars align you could stay at a studio for years following a pipeline making several pairs of shorts and rack up the character art experience and game credits to transfer over pretty easily to another studio provided you'd update your portfolio to meet any specific requirements. And people hop about a lot, with some choosing to move into managerial roles with more delegating and working with outsource partners.
Junior character artist may be listed as Assistant or associate character artist, and I have seen artists with senior level work and experience join at that level because it is what was available and it is much easier to level up once your inside the studio or jump to another studio because the industry does tend to prioritise poaching from studios over hiring newcomers. I personally detest this practice since it destroys team morale and commodifies artists though it is sometimes the only way to attain seniority, since you can be hired back at higher pay.
The reason why you've seen great character artist having that experience is either because that is what was available and props hardsurface work is prevalent across environment and character art. Also it takes time to get competant at anatomy so many do dedicate more time to become competant at prop modeling while they work on character art.
At my school we had a full year dedicated to character art where we had to make soldier models. While many did manage to get the accessories and uniform correct, the models themselves were not to industry standard. It was also difficult to discern if they actually were any good since the students hadn't devoted enough time to actually become competant in character anatomy. So it ended up being wasted as a sustainable portfolio piece, though some students did salvage components such as guns etc.
Most of my classmates have pulled their older work, though I did find this demoreel of the class where you can see some of the characters. https://youtu.be/g8rV3_4YRB4 Mind you this was rendered in UDK, not unreal 5 and if you compare with the games at the time they aren't to standard.
Still the students did get jobs from networking etc, many ended up in TV/film animation which was easier to get into than games but that was also because in toronto there aren't many game dev studios. The program was tailored to get a job, so the teachers were a mix from AAA and the TV/film industry local to the school. WIth AAA, most of my classmates got into QA at Ubisoft and some moved over into producer art positions after.
The perpective that game studios always hire the best of the best of the greatest god tier talent and actually spare no expense at tracking down these dieties by combing through mountains of supernatural portfolios is a fallacy but this does get thrown around a lot in artist circles. When it comes to studios it does sound good for marketing and in quaterly earnings calls to investors though. From the layoffs its understood that investors do like it more if most of these divinities are laid off instead.
Well its a little hard to go by what you see online. Kind of like some people are saying in the LinkedIn thread you posted, these positions that are listed externally sometimes get filled internally and you the job seeker essentially wasted your time applying. The ATS system in place also hurts since it'll screen you out before your application is even seen by a person.
With the networking thing I agree. The only jobs I ever got through applying online were minimum wage. Literally every other job I've had that was worth something (career wise, paid more than minimum wage, etc.) I got through networking in person at conventions and such. I know this summer I'm planning to go to another convention where hopefully some companies who need a 3D artist will show up so I can get my foot in the door.
If that's the case, then even if I get my skills up to scratch, it sounds like it won't make a huge amount of difference when nobody's going to pay attention anyway. So how does someone get their foot in the door? I've never been big on self-promotion, but the impression I'm getting is that just being good at what you do isn't enough?
Well generally speaking no, just being good enough isn't enough. You have to go beyond just being good which means self-promotion or rather being proactive in trying to get hired.
For me I tend to go to Comic Con as they have portfolio reviews. Its mostly for 2D, but sometimes people will show up who want 3D artists. This isn't an option for everyone and it doesn't always work out in a job either. I've went to a number of those reviews for years on end meeting a handful of companies each time I was there and only got 2 jobs out of it lol. You might say that's slim odds to only get 2 jobs total and I agree, but consider this:
I've applied to probably 200+ art positions online spanning from before I even discovered Comic Con over 10 years ago until even as recently as last year, yet never even got a job interview. A couple of those I applied to was after I had experience. Still didn't get nothing back. That kinda goes to show you that, while its tough either way, networking generally improves your odds. If I had never tried to venture beyond just applying online, idk, I might've never gotten an art job.
So as far as how you go about doing this, I don't think it has to be difficult. I would look to LinkedIn and try to befriend other 3D guys, particularly if they're working in a studio where you'd like to work at. I mean just a few days ago I had a concept artist reach out to me who wanted to connect. Thats an industry connection right there. Same has happened with other artists and I've reached out to a few artists myself. Also to help with this, share some of your work on your profile. Someone in a hiring position or someone who knows someone that is might see it and decide to call you.
There's other options like sharing your work on Artstation which I highly recommend. Its verrrry easy to meet other artists on there and connect with. There's also Polycount which your on now lol. They have a jobs section which I've not explored that much, but it certainly looks like a viable option seeing as how active the posters are there. I need to be doing more of these networking tips myself lol. I've been busy creating content but once I take a break I'll get back to networking.
So basically.....I guess what I'm saying is, still apply because that doesn't hurt, but definitely put more of your effort into networking.
by being able to model things, you'd already set yourself apart from the endless stream of artists running our of school each year. you wouldn't believe the amount of applications we reject, simply because people are too addicted to zbrush.
There are people like that?
But....You can't model for shit in ZBrush. And even that aside, if your skills only extend that far, you can't finish anything, or even just do anything with it except make a static sculpt that sits there doing nothing. I might be a bit fixated on some things, but even I know that.
When it comes to modeling, I'm capable. I haven't done it much in some time, but I can do it. I've been using Blender for a long time. Need to spend more time in Maya, but it's very clunky by comparison.
What school is that you mentioned?
All schools over here. There are a few exceptions, but generally speaking solid zbrush based juniors are super easy to find.
I mean we work in a niche and our work is heavily focussed on being very clean and polished. Being able to model, to create your own basemeshes is just very valuable at that. It also saves time down the road for low poly and UVs.
People who do the vast majority of their highpoly work in zbrush, tend to have messier surface work, less edge control, overall just harder to process models down the road.
And all they care about is the fun highpoly part, on our end, we want all artists to have full ownership over their work, but that also means they have to be competent at and enjoying to do all the other more technical parts. So yeah a heavily zbrush focussed portfolio, to me is a red flag and will get sorted out. There are thousands out there with the same level of work in their folios, coming fresh out of school.
A caveat; some people are hired solely to make highpolys in Zbrush, which is what I did for Path of Exile. It's definitely worth learning everything else though as a broader spectrum of knowledge and skills simply makes one more hireable, and more knowledge about retopology, texturing and animations will make your highpolys better.
There ARE a lot of people who just stay in zbrush and don't attempt learning anything else though, lol
Yeah and then there are people down the line fixing all the shit that doesnt bake
Ah you meant artists that only have high poly artwork in zbrush in their portfolios and have not demonstrated a full pipeline from sculpt to low poly.
I thought you meant that juniors who could do hard surface zbrush like keos masons were easy to find right from school lol. That technique is challenging to master and I haven't seen many portfolios demonstrating that skill effectively.
Could you share some of the portfolios you've accepted/rejected, would provide as good examples.
Both actually, you can usually just see their focus very well. And zbrush heavy work often just isn't clean enough for our or our clients needs.
I will not call out artists, good or (to me) bad folios. It obviously depends on the needs of our projects and the folio is also always just the door opener, not what settles any employment. By now, for many projects we went for short, focussed, paid for art tests again.
I mean we work in a niche and our work is heavily focussed on being very clean and polished. Being able to model, to create your own basemeshes is just very valuable at that. It also saves time down the road for low poly and UVs.
People who do the vast majority of their highpoly work in zbrush, tend to have messier surface work, less edge control, overall just harder to process models down the road.
And all they care about is the fun highpoly part, on our end, we want all artists to have full ownership over their work, but that also means they have to be competent at and enjoying to do all the other more technical parts. So yeah a heavily zbrush focussed portfolio, to me is a red flag and will get sorted out. There are thousands out there with the same level of work in their folios, coming fresh out of school.
Makes sense, I suppose. That's something I'll take care to avoid, then. I'll inevitably end up modeling things anyway for character props, armour, etc, and more skills never hurt. Unless you go overboard and end up in a "wide as the ocean, deep as a puddle" situation, haha.
So as far as how you go about doing this, I don't think it has to be difficult. I would look to LinkedIn and try to befriend other 3D guys, particularly if they're working in a studio where you'd like to work at. I mean just a few days ago I had a concept artist reach out to me who wanted to connect. Thats an industry connection right there. Same has happened with other artists and I've reached out to a few artists myself. Also to help with this, share some of your work on your profile. Someone in a hiring position or someone who knows someone that is might see it and decide to call you.
There's other options like sharing your work on Artstation which I highly recommend. Its verrrry easy to meet other artists on there and connect with. There's also Polycount which your on now lol. They have a jobs section which I've not explored that much, but it certainly looks like a viable option seeing as how active the posters are there. I need to be doing more of these networking tips myself lol. I've been busy creating content but once I take a break I'll get back to networking.
So basically.....I guess what I'm saying is, still apply because that doesn't hurt, but definitely put more of your effort into networking.
How used is LinkedIn? Since it's been recommended, I'll end up using it, but I wonder just how important it is. I haven't used it before, but that's because none of the jobs I've done were the kind to need or care about networking because they were pure grunt work, so I don't really have a frame of reference here.
While networking ultimately plays a role in the hiring process (hence the mention of it being quite important), it is of no use whatsoever to a beginner starting out. Because It's not the networking that leads to jobs : It's the display of skills, that leads to recognition (ie "networking"), that leads to jobs.
Now *of course* you'll find examples of people being buddies with some producer and being hired thanks to that. But that's irrelevant.
So in a way, actively "networking" is really quite pointless really. The "networking" will happen naturally from great work being noticed and from collaborating with other artists on joint projects.
i think the connotations of how some words are used may be misinterpreted. Here's an attempt to summarize
If Rima has no finished characters, then Rima cannot get job
If Rima has finished characters but nobody knows Rima, Rima cannot get job
If Rima has finished characters of good quality but nobody knows Rima, Rima cannot get job
If Rima has finished characters of poor quality, but many people know Rima and like him, then Rima probably can get a job
If Rima has finished characters of good quality, and many people know Rima and like him, then Rima definitely gets a job
If Rima only post on polycount, artstation, etc, then some people know that Rima exist, but they cannot grow to like him.
If Rima meets local developers, goes to conventions, works on group projects, then people can grow to like him.
If Rima spends time asking questions like, "should I use linkedIn?" rather than taking 10 minutes to make a linkedIn account and message all of the professionals working in his area to ask earnest questions, then Rima seems to lack motivation, resourcefulness, confidence, and other important qualities an ideal game developer should possess.
For any artist that still feels that they are not at a point to apply to jobs, I would definitely try and network with a mentorship focus. This would enable a long term connection/commitment early on and with the situation the industry is currently facing, many experienced artists are more than willing to accept connection requests. So its a very good time for networking regardless of where your art is at.
What I wouldn't do is hold back on networking because I felt that I wasn't good enough to connect with senior artists, since I felt I had little to offer. I've seen people get jobs because they shared a joint with an art director at a networking event, video game development doesn't have the exclusivity like say the medical field where you do have to show sufficient credentials and expertise to be commended by senior doctors and tenured faculty.
Its great to be competant, even exceptional at art but the background of many artists prior to their game development careers is far more humble, several artists graduated highschool, many didn't finish college/university and worked in food service/retail/security, so if there is any elitism its mostly because of their artwork and current seniority both of which have now been decimated with the indescriminate layoffs which have definitely made more artists reflect on their self worth and value to the industry and made them more receptive of supporting the community.
You may have to go through a few profiles before you find a good mentorship fit, but this is so not like pre interview medical residency matching in that its more casual and many mentors are more down to earth
Though medical graduates get 5 star dinners, air fare coverage and hotel accomodation organised by hospitals, the most I've gotten from a game studio at an interview is a cup of coffee, lol. And residence matching is equally competitive if not more, its just that the medical system invests in future residents, be great if game dev would atleast compare to the IT industry though its more like the entertainment/film industry so as production artists it takes a lot of effort to build a reputation to be respected enough by a studio that feels you are indespensible. Atleast that was the understanding before the layoffs happened.
If Rima spends time asking questions like, "should I use linkedIn?" rather than taking 10 minutes to make a linkedIn account and message all of the professionals working in his area to ask earnest questions, then Rima seems to lack motivation, resourcefulness, confidence, and other important qualities an ideal game developer should possess.
I don't think that's fair.
The reason I've been asking these questions in this thread is because in large part of the range of opinions I've seen in the replies. Basically everything in this thread has been like that; one person will say "X is important", and then another person will say "X isn't that important", or someone else will say "X is important, but _______". You can see it just a few replies back when it comes to networking, with some saying that it's important to go out of your way to do it, while others say that networking happens more naturally, and various remarks that make different suggestions of the importance of connections vs portfolio/skills quality.
I'm asking questions not because I'm some kind of idiot with no motivation or resourcefulness or whatever, but because I want to know more, and by seeing the various conflicting replies find the common points and know which things are most likely good courses of action. If three people suggest Thing A, Thing B and Thing C respectively but all mention that Thing D is good, that's a fairly reliable pointer.
about everybody having different opinions, that's what I said earlier. One person says there is only one way, another says not. One person says you must network, the other says it's pointless, and then after much argument it becomes clear that what the word means to each person is different.
Everybody has different opinion, so you need to test for yourself whatever you can. if the test is quick and easy, do it regardless of what anybody says.
If three people on the internet say something is good, that is not a reliable indicator of much. Nearly all of the most common wisdoms on the internet are not there because they are true, they are there because it is most universally non-offending. Much of it is parroted. If somebody makes a convincing case and it plays to common biases, then it gets passed around endlessly until it seems like a natural law.
If you let other people make your decisions for you, you always going to make a bad decision because they don't know even 1% about you or your situation. there are plenty of actionable suggestions here that you can try. You can try making complete characters in a faster way. You can try more networking. You can try linkedIn. You can try making props. These are all things that you can do right now. You can make a character in a simple style in a couple of days. In less time than this thread has existed I have made two new characters from concept to animated in game engine. All of these are things that you can complete in the next few days, the next few weeks, the next month. You dont need for fifty people to explain the pros and cons of linkedIn, or this workflow versus that, when you can just readily try it for yourself. All you need to know is that it is an option that exist.
How used is LinkedIn? Since it's been recommended, I'll end up using it, but I wonder just how important it is. I haven't used it before, but that's because none of the jobs I've done were the kind to need or care about networking because they were pure grunt work, so I don't really have a frame of reference here.
I think at minimum, having a Linkedin and keeping it updated is a good thing to do. It's pretty much a database of searchable resumes where recruiters like to hang out, so it is helpful in that regard. You don't have to post a lot or try to "network" by commenting on things. Just have it, keep it updated, maybe post stuff you've worked on every once in a while. Sometimes you'll get reached out to and it will lead to something, it has happened to me a couple of times, other times you'll get reached out to for completely unrelated jobs.
While networking ultimately plays a role in the hiring process (hence the mention of it being quite important), it is of no use whatsoever to a beginner starting out. Because It's not the networking that leads to jobs : It's the display of skills, that leads to recognition (ie "networking"), that leads to jobs.
So in a way, actively "networking" is really quite pointless really. The "networking" will happen naturally from great work being noticed and from collaborating with other artists on joint projects.
I really agree with this. Networking is ultimately a black box, is it useful? Can it get you jobs? Yes, but you're never have visibility on how much it actually helps. Trying to quantify how helpful or important it actually is, is near impossible.
I think talking to people with the hopes of "networking" is kind of pointless as well, and I would much rather try to make friends. I frame it that way because networking usually means that people will be communicating with recruiters, leads or seniors with the hopes of getting hired, rather than talking to them like a human being, and people who have been the industry for a while can smell that sort of thing a mile away and are usually turned off by it. When you tend to make friends it tends to be people you worked with, had classes with or people who are on your level. They are ultimately the people who will help you out more because you're going to be growing and building each other up. Be cool, be helpful and generally you'll be able to make friends and keep in touch with people.
I remember seeing those threads; did they stop due to a lack of participation or something?
Oh hey, I used to run them! Yes ultimately it was due to lack of interest, some challenges would go by without any replies. I would also get comments (not here) about why I was running them at the same time as another competition... and It's like I've been doing this for years at this point lol... I was also dealing with a gradual burnout that kind of consumed everything during the pandemic, I didn't have it in me anymore to put them together. You're always welcome to do them, they are my signature and I made sure to link back to previous ones.
NikhilR: I do wish that iterations in portfolio artwork were prioritised, meaning that there would be a focus on showcasing progression.
They
are, if you're a concept artist. It's not really our job to spit out
iterations as a 3D character artist. Iteration can happen, and we
sometimes have to make changes because the concept isn't possible, but
we generally can't change things in a huge way unless there is a need or
direction to do so. Our job is to execute an approved concept as
effectively and honestly as we can within the limitations, why would a
lead want to see our iterations?
I also strongly agree with Pior and Neox on sculpting, I've seen it myself around here and with applicants that apply to where I work. Time and time again there are people who do bad-ass sculpts but completely flounder once they get to the low poly phase. Some things have to be crunched down so efficiently you can't automate it without it looking like garbage, and to get them to look good you are thinking about the low poly and UVs as you're sculpting. A lot of high poly hard surface in Zbrush is faked too and not 100% Zbrush. In that it's blocked out in zbrush, remade in a modeling software with clean topo and brought back to Zbrush for small details. You have to love the game res side of things if you want to make game art, there will always be limitations to work with. Personally, I feel I learned the most when I made super low poly things, like 1000 triangles or under with 128 pixel maps. If you want to learn how to efficiently make low poly and UVs, making a bunch of smaller assets is the way to go. You can pump them out in a week or 2 and learn a ton, like why you may triangulate this part, or why you may straighten out your UV here or there.
To answer some of the original questions in the OP:
- If
you want to make characters go for it, you're always going to be far
more driven to do something you like rather than something you don't
-
For courses or mentorships, I think the way to approach them is a
couple different ways: Do they teach you a skill you want to learn and
would have a harder time to learn yourself? Or Is it taught by an artist
who has a style/quality/whatever that you want to achieve? If a course
ticks one or both of those boxes, then go for it. You'll probably get a
lot more out of it than a traditional school.
There is always the option of choosing a concept and making that too. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet, choose something and do it.
Rima said: How used is LinkedIn? Since it's been recommended, I'll end up using it, but I wonder just how important it is. I haven't used it before, but that's because none of the jobs I've done were the kind to need or care about networking because they were pure grunt work, so I don't really have a frame of reference here.
It’s used by a lot of people in different professions. It can be used to meet people, share your work as well as apply for jobs. I think it’s useful for keeping in contact with industry contacts and for trying to find people who are in positions to hire you. Just to be clear on it, when I say networking I mean to put your work out there where it can be seen and to build connections with other artists. And pretty much yeah. I think I you’ll gain more mileage by putting more of your effort into networking than applying. I think Artstation is also a good option, maybe a better one when it comes to making friends with other artists since it’s more about art than anything else.
Ultimately this is just my view based on my experience. You don’t need to network. The only thing you really have to do is apply for jobs with good work until you get in. Networking tends to speed things up and provides other benefits I think are worthwhile if your trying to make a career out of something.
If you let other people make your decisions for you, you always going to make a bad decision because they don't know even 1% about you or your situation. there are plenty of actionable suggestions here that you can try. You can try making complete characters in a faster way. You can try more networking. You can try linkedIn. You can try making props. These are all things that you can do right now. You can make a character in a simple style in a couple of days. In less time than this thread has existed I have made two new characters from concept to animated in game engine. All of these are things that you can complete in the next few days, the next few weeks, the next month. You dont need for fifty people to explain the pros and cons of linkedIn, or this workflow versus that, when you can just readily try it for yourself. All you need to know is that it is an option that exist.
If I wanted to have others decide things for me, I wouldn't be asking so many questions, would I? I'd just jump on the first thing that's spoken with enough authority. Congratulations on your work, good for you. But just for your information, no, I haven't been sat on my arse the whole time this thread has existed just waiting for everything to come to me. Maybe I don't have a character model to show for it, but I know I'm better off now than I was when I made the thread, so when, shortly, I do make a character model, I'll be less far off of my target quality. Not to mention other things in my life that are time thieves.
Replies
I was under the impression that competent hard surface sculpting artists were more sought after considering how challenging that skill is to master.
Personally I pivot between both, so it's more a matter of being able to ascertain what works best depending on the model.
Well its a little hard to go by what you see online. Kind of like some people are saying in the LinkedIn thread you posted, these positions that are listed externally sometimes get filled internally and you the job seeker essentially wasted your time applying. The ATS system in place also hurts since it'll screen you out before your application is even seen by a person.
With the networking thing I agree. The only jobs I ever got through applying online were minimum wage. Literally every other job I've had that was worth something (career wise, paid more than minimum wage, etc.) I got through networking in person at conventions and such. I know this summer I'm planning to go to another convention where hopefully some companies who need a 3D artist will show up so I can get my foot in the door.
If that's the case, then even if I get my skills up to scratch, it sounds like it won't make a huge amount of difference when nobody's going to pay attention anyway. So how does someone get their foot in the door? I've never been big on self-promotion, but the impression I'm getting is that just being good at what you do isn't enough?
The resources from Amir Satvat in this topic,
https://polycount.com/discussion/235382/reach-out-anytime-database#latest
would be very useful in this regard, like the reach out anytime database, and of course posting work here helps too.
And yes it is true given the market and the general subjectivity around art that your application may not hold muster.
For portfolio I would try to capture a concept and style perfectly and tailor it to a studio so atleast that way you are assured after a mentor consultation that your work is sound and if you are still rejected it isn't because of your work.
I.e you work has hit the minimum expected standard.
What you do beyond that and how much it impacts an application is debatable.
It is a fact that knowing others does help a great deal, so your artwork is there to make the statement about you. It is your self promotion so that you are taken seriously regardless of if the application works out and you get hired or not.
Depending on your location, I would look out for industry events and mixers.
You are also doing Scott Eatons course, besides Scott are there any other instructors/mentors that frequent the forum and work with students?
This I ask because Scott Eaton may be difficult to reach out to, though that course is more to help establish fundamentals of anatomy, I'm not sure how much it would help from a job perspective, though certainly the certificate should carry some weight once you have it up on your linkedin.
One other way is that you can look through linkedin for character artists who have done the course (or even right here on polycount) and dm them for mentorship and feedback, or just start a conversation with them being honest about where you are in your development.
I'm not sure how effective this would be, but the reach out anytime database is a guaranteed 30 min free consultation from artists currently in the industry with several in AAA studios.
All in all it does help to have a time line outlining when you looking to start working in the industry.
For me the ideal would have been joining in when my portfolio wasn't the greatest but demonstrated competancy that was sufficient to get hired and that I was vouched for my connections inside the industry.
Then I would make the most of this opportunity to improve my art and grow my network to achieve some stability (if that is the intention)
And yes a lot does come down to luck and factors that the studio has more control over, so its important to manage a balance between your art work and skill development and studio expectations.
Does help to do some research into studios and the candidates that have been recently hired, then contact those candidates to get a good idea if your portfolio is meeting the requirements should positions become available.
Helps to do this early, and yes you would need some sample art work to make that initial ask.
I find that many artists get obsessed with portfolio perfection and don't put enough time and effort into networking and improving their visibility.
There is the perspective that a rejection means "portfolio is not good enough", "there are other artists better than you" and while this might be the case, its important to go with facts that are actually transparent.
i.e if a studio gets your application and the recruiter reaches out to inquire for additional information like "can you do creature art?" "do you have examples of addtional styles" that is information you can work with.
A boiler plate rejection sent on a no reply email, doesn't mean your PPR is lacking in general, for that instance maybe, or the job was pulled and the studio collapses the day after.
If its important for an artist to confirm that their PPR was a problem, they should reach out on linkedin to artists at the studio and ask.
And there's a lot you can gauge simply by researching the PPR of artists that are currrently working at the studio.
You can use this tool to replicate ATS scans so you can check your resume for issues,
https://www.jobscan.co/
You can also have your resume professionally reviewed
https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewwohl/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/richkingrecruiter/
Recommend watching this and connecting with the recruiters there, they also give resume reviews,
https://polycount.com/discussion/235381/use-the-force-to-supercharge-your-career-search#latest
I got my first industry job as a QA tester through a referral from a QA lead I met while volunteering at a Japanese food festival, and though the requirements for QA were far below my skill set and experience, my experience as a QA tester was valued when I was interviewed for a character artist position at EA.
I had applied through the online system for the EA character artist position and it took 2 years and Covid before I got an interview. (during those 2 years I did QA and worked on my portfolio)
And my work responsibilities at EA were a mix of character art and art asset management and maintenance so it was very Character Art QA and this is something I have seen at other studios.
You very rarely do start from scratch atleast in AAA as an character artist employee in studio, and if there have been cases where artists have been asked to single handedly create characters exactly like they do in their portfolio and given full control, freedom and flexibility at a junior to mid level, I have yet to witness it.
The only artists I can say got this responisibility were outsourcing studios who likely also use basemeshes and repurposing exisiting assets from libraries, mainly because it is efficient and they have to deal with large volumes of work with a low price to model ratio.
The studios with higher/better price to model ratio are few and far between and mostly freelance collectives like Keos Masons who run like a botique studio.
I have seen several instances where hero character art is made by them among others, and character artists in studio make re-skins (prop/clothing) and work with animators and tech artists to integrate the models into the game engine.
While at school there was the general perspective that you have to be top/god tier stellar artist with senior level work to get hired because your work was incredible/spectacular and got many likes on artstation.
And this approach led to some interesting content like this,
I do feel that it helps to have a more balanced approach since its easy to lose yourself in the pursuit of perfection.
This cinematic was made as part of course work 9 years ago and I can also confidently say that some of the artists behind this are now senior artists at various studios including AAA and got their foot in the door at local studios because of referrals from their teachers.
Is their work much better now? Certainly,
did this cinematic impede getting that foot in the door, not quite.
So the game dev school is shit, teaches you nothing and your artwork is garbage didn't matter since it was the connections that mattered more, and there have been several instances just like this to this day.
That said any experience even if it creates content like the above is a good teacher, and its vital to keep up with current tech and workflows and leverage what you can to better yourself as an artist.
https://www.youtube.com/@UbisoftToronto/search?query=NXT
Good example of how varied the standard of proficiency expected is.
The prize for this competition is a 3/4 month apprenticeship at 19$/hr as a model artist at Ubisoft Toronto. A few classmates I knew won this and their responsibilities were similar to artists on the environment and internal prop art teams.
I did not see any listings for junior model artist at any point on their career page.
A few classmates were hired as model artists, though I believe these openings were created exclusively to accomodate them because of the connections they had internally.
There is a lisiting for senior prop artist at the montreal studio
https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/company/careers/search/743999981438036-senior-modeler-props-assassin-s-creed-projet-
Though its requirements are lower than those expected for a senior which is confusing to me.
The ontario government provides 300,000$ per candidate as part of its funding initiative exclusive to Ubisoft for new hires local to toronto.
https://kotaku.com/not-everyone-thrilled-by-ubisoft-toronto-deal-5312873
Not entirely sure how this is allocated per candidate, my classmates who won the apprenticeship were made full time for $40,000 per year after and this was in 2016.
Model artist is the closest I've seen to prop artist without being called prop artist.
From the NXT showcase videos you can track the career progression of candidates on linkedin to gain better understand of where this opportunity led the winners and finalists and even explore their portfolios to know how being at a studio impacted their artistic development.
Connecting with them on linkedin is also advised especially for applicants based in toronto.
sorry for late reply , but is this really true ? i mean i never saw 1 single job that says " junior character artist " also all the great character artists i see in artstation have like at least +3 years of experience in industry doing props , hardsurface etc ..
My coworkers came from a variety of backgrounds and all of them had different hiring experiences, from my lead who works on marvel/dc statues and came from a background in construction, to coworkers with backgrounds in finance/CRA/accounting and another from QA who happened to meet a lead in the cafeteria and was transfered to the character team.
In fact I would say that while every character artist on the team had some understanding of anatomy and fundamentals, as part of the character team they were assigned work based on their strengths.
So there wasn't a gated "have to do this course/certification" approach at EA, maybe its different at other studios.
You could do character skins (uniforms) for the entire contract and you could still call yourself a character artist.
So I was assigned a mix of head/hair creation and database management given my background in QA and patient records in dentistry.
There was ample time alloted to learning the pipeline and if you wanted to be assigned to other departments you could pursue a learning path with your managers approval.
This was in complete contrast to the top tier/senior level work advice that I've heard around polycount and linkedin, not to say that one shouldn't strive for that level of quality if one has the time, but whether that translates directly to senior level responsibility and more importantly senior level pay is debatable and really dependent on the budget and headcount at the studio.
Its important to hit the minimum requirements of any job listing, so having portfolio work does matter there when it comes to style requested or if there is speciific focus on hair/clothing.
But honestly if the stars align you could stay at a studio for years following a pipeline making several pairs of shorts and rack up the character art experience and game credits to transfer over pretty easily to another studio provided you'd update your portfolio to meet any specific requirements.
And people hop about a lot, with some choosing to move into managerial roles with more delegating and working with outsource partners.
Junior character artist may be listed as Assistant or associate character artist, and I have seen artists with senior level work and experience join at that level because it is what was available and it is much easier to level up once your inside the studio or jump to another studio because the industry does tend to prioritise poaching from studios over hiring newcomers.
I personally detest this practice since it destroys team morale and commodifies artists though it is sometimes the only way to attain seniority, since you can be hired back at higher pay.
The reason why you've seen great character artist having that experience is either because that is what was available and props hardsurface work is prevalent across environment and character art.
Also it takes time to get competant at anatomy so many do dedicate more time to become competant at prop modeling while they work on character art.
At my school we had a full year dedicated to character art where we had to make soldier models.
While many did manage to get the accessories and uniform correct, the models themselves were not to industry standard.
It was also difficult to discern if they actually were any good since the students hadn't devoted enough time to actually become competant in character anatomy.
So it ended up being wasted as a sustainable portfolio piece, though some students did salvage components such as guns etc.
Most of my classmates have pulled their older work, though I did find this demoreel of the class where you can see some of the characters.
Mind you this was rendered in UDK, not unreal 5 and if you compare with the games at the time they aren't to standard.
Still the students did get jobs from networking etc, many ended up in TV/film animation which was easier to get into than games but that was also because in toronto there aren't many game dev studios.
The program was tailored to get a job, so the teachers were a mix from AAA and the TV/film industry local to the school.
WIth AAA, most of my classmates got into QA at Ubisoft and some moved over into producer art positions after.
The perpective that game studios always hire the best of the best of the greatest god tier talent and actually spare no expense at tracking down these dieties by combing through mountains of supernatural portfolios is a fallacy but this does get thrown around a lot in artist circles.
When it comes to studios it does sound good for marketing and in quaterly earnings calls to investors though.
From the layoffs its understood that investors do like it more if most of these divinities are laid off instead.
If that's the case, then even if I get my skills up to scratch, it sounds like it won't make a huge amount of difference when nobody's going to pay attention anyway. So how does someone get their foot in the door? I've never been big on self-promotion, but the impression I'm getting is that just being good at what you do isn't enough?
Well generally speaking no, just being good enough isn't enough. You have to go beyond just being good which means self-promotion or rather being proactive in trying to get hired.
For me I tend to go to Comic Con as they have portfolio reviews. Its mostly for 2D, but sometimes people will show up who want 3D artists. This isn't an option for everyone and it doesn't always work out in a job either. I've went to a number of those reviews for years on end meeting a handful of companies each time I was there and only got 2 jobs out of it lol. You might say that's slim odds to only get 2 jobs total and I agree, but consider this:
I've applied to probably 200+ art positions online spanning from before I even discovered Comic Con over 10 years ago until even as recently as last year, yet never even got a job interview. A couple of those I applied to was after I had experience. Still didn't get nothing back. That kinda goes to show you that, while its tough either way, networking generally improves your odds. If I had never tried to venture beyond just applying online, idk, I might've never gotten an art job.
So as far as how you go about doing this, I don't think it has to be difficult. I would look to LinkedIn and try to befriend other 3D guys, particularly if they're working in a studio where you'd like to work at. I mean just a few days ago I had a concept artist reach out to me who wanted to connect. Thats an industry connection right there. Same has happened with other artists and I've reached out to a few artists myself. Also to help with this, share some of your work on your profile. Someone in a hiring position or someone who knows someone that is might see it and decide to call you.
There's other options like sharing your work on Artstation which I highly recommend. Its verrrry easy to meet other artists on there and connect with. There's also Polycount which your on now lol. They have a jobs section which I've not explored that much, but it certainly looks like a viable option seeing as how active the posters are there. I need to be doing more of these networking tips myself lol. I've been busy creating content but once I take a break I'll get back to networking.
So basically.....I guess what I'm saying is, still apply because that doesn't hurt, but definitely put more of your effort into networking.
There are a few exceptions, but generally speaking solid zbrush based juniors are super easy to find.
I mean we work in a niche and our work is heavily focussed on being very clean and polished.
Being able to model, to create your own basemeshes is just very valuable at that.
It also saves time down the road for low poly and UVs.
People who do the vast majority of their highpoly work in zbrush, tend to have messier surface work, less edge control, overall just harder to process models down the road.
And all they care about is the fun highpoly part, on our end, we want all artists to have full ownership over their work, but that also means they have to be competent at and enjoying to do all the other more technical parts.
So yeah a heavily zbrush focussed portfolio, to me is a red flag and will get sorted out. There are thousands out there with the same level of work in their folios, coming fresh out of school.
There ARE a lot of people who just stay in zbrush and don't attempt learning anything else though, lol
I thought you meant that juniors who could do hard surface zbrush like keos masons were easy to find right from school lol.
That technique is challenging to master and I haven't seen many portfolios demonstrating that skill effectively.
Could you share some of the portfolios you've accepted/rejected, would provide as good examples.
I will not call out artists, good or (to me) bad folios. It obviously depends on the needs of our projects and the folio is also always just the door opener, not what settles any employment.
By now, for many projects we went for short, focussed, paid for art tests again.
Now *of course* you'll find examples of people being buddies with some producer and being hired thanks to that. But that's irrelevant.
So in a way, actively "networking" is really quite pointless really. The "networking" will happen naturally from great work being noticed and from collaborating with other artists on joint projects.
This would enable a long term connection/commitment early on and with the situation the industry is currently facing, many experienced artists are more than willing to accept connection requests.
So its a very good time for networking regardless of where your art is at.
What I wouldn't do is hold back on networking because I felt that I wasn't good enough to connect with senior artists, since I felt I had little to offer.
I've seen people get jobs because they shared a joint with an art director at a networking event, video game development doesn't have the exclusivity like say the medical field where you do have to show sufficient credentials and expertise to be commended by senior doctors and tenured faculty.
Its great to be competant, even exceptional at art but the background of many artists prior to their game development careers is far more humble, several artists graduated highschool, many didn't finish college/university and worked in food service/retail/security, so if there is any elitism its mostly because of their artwork and current seniority both of which have now been decimated with the indescriminate layoffs which have definitely made more artists reflect on their self worth and value to the industry and made them more receptive of supporting the community.
You may have to go through a few profiles before you find a good mentorship fit, but this is so not like pre interview medical residency matching in that its more casual and many mentors are more down to earth
Though medical graduates get 5 star dinners, air fare coverage and hotel accomodation organised by hospitals, the most I've gotten from a game studio at an interview is a cup of coffee, lol.
And residence matching is equally competitive if not more, its just that the medical system invests in future residents, be great if game dev would atleast compare to the IT industry though its more like the entertainment/film industry so as production artists it takes a lot of effort to build a reputation to be respected enough by a studio that feels you are indespensible.
Atleast that was the understanding before the layoffs happened.
Everybody has different opinion, so you need to test for yourself whatever you can. if the test is quick and easy, do it regardless of what anybody says.
If three people on the internet say something is good, that is not a reliable indicator of much. Nearly all of the most common wisdoms on the internet are not there because they are true, they are there because it is most universally non-offending. Much of it is parroted. If somebody makes a convincing case and it plays to common biases, then it gets passed around endlessly until it seems like a natural law.
If you let other people make your decisions for you, you always going to make a bad decision because they don't know even 1% about you or your situation.
there are plenty of actionable suggestions here that you can try. You can try making complete characters in a faster way. You can try more networking. You can try linkedIn. You can try making props. These are all things that you can do right now. You can make a character in a simple style in a couple of days. In less time than this thread has existed I have made two new characters from concept to animated in game engine. All of these are things that you can complete in the next few days, the next few weeks, the next month. You dont need for fifty people to explain the pros and cons of linkedIn, or this workflow versus that, when you can just readily try it for yourself. All you need to know is that it is an option that exist.
I really agree with this. Networking is ultimately a black box, is it useful? Can it get you jobs? Yes, but you're never have visibility on how much it actually helps. Trying to quantify how helpful or important it actually is, is near impossible.
Oh hey, I used to run them! Yes ultimately it was due to lack of interest, some challenges would go by without any replies. I would also get comments (not here) about why I was running them at the same time as another competition... and It's like I've been doing this for years at this point lol... I was also dealing with a gradual burnout that kind of consumed everything during the pandemic, I didn't have it in me anymore to put them together. You're always welcome to do them, they are my signature and I made sure to link back to previous ones.
Ultimately this is just my view based on my experience. You don’t need to network. The only thing you really have to do is apply for jobs with good work until you get in. Networking tends to speed things up and provides other benefits I think are worthwhile if your trying to make a career out of something.
Soon.