Should I practice with triangles if I want to work in games industry?

Isabel

Hi, hope this is the right forum

I'm kind of exploring everything in the 3D world. One thing I've noticed, is the difference between topology for game props and those high-res props.
I really want to work with games, but also for other industries, where sub-d modelling is needed.

My question is if I would aim for a job in the game industry should I focus mainly on modelling props and practice with the triangles? Or do you guys think you would benefit and learn more from modelling with quads and good edgeflow.
I would appreciate opinions and different views from others, because sometimes I can get a bit lost from it all

Example of the topology I mean (triangle - quads) :

iam717

This should help.

Then participating here sometimes can get you going, getting acquainted with a few people and receiving possible feedback.

I did the triangles(previous-gens) to quad(future-gens) thing, triangles matter for lower counts and restricted engines, though you still work with triangles when you are "Edge Turning/Correcting", for shading correctly, if you do not Edge Turn before u.v. mapping you will see the errors and ask 100 questions to why this is. 

This has everything you could probably ask for.

Isabel

Thank you @iam717 for the links and information, I've actually been looking for some challenge too, so I will definitely look into participating.
Also, I don't think I quite understand what you meant with "I did the triangles(previous-gens) to quad(future-gens) thing"

Neox

the good thing is, well in games you will need both. if the workflow involves a normalmap, the chances are high that this normalmap will come from a highpoly mesh, one way of creating those highpoly meshes will be subdivision modelling.

this will usually be the case for anything hardsurface, props, weapons and such.

on our OW project the characters are 95% or more all sub-d modelling in the end, while the game models are more lowpoly and triangulated pieces, triangulation where needed, because quad topology is just easier to work with, in the majority of 3d apps.

Isabel

@Neox thanks, it's starting to make more sense to me now, it all comes down to what you're making.

Klunk

it's all triangles every thing else is to make it easy on the eye and mind

Tiles

Modeling is one chapter. Quite a few polygon modeling tools in nearly all 3d modeling software requires quad topology to work. Edgeloop selection for example does not work well with tris or n-gons. So that's the thing that you need to learn first. Modeling with a useful topology. And there are plenty ways to achieve this. You could even skip the polygon modeling part, sculpt it instead, and then do a retopo.

Finishing the model and make it optimized for game needs is then another chapter. And there are other things to consider. You should avoid long triangles for example if possible to avoid shading problems. Which you have in the topology at the left.

sacboi

Use case for triangles or indeed ngons, is when a given surface would generally be flat (planar) particularly applicable for mechanical hard surface objects - shape and their mesh boundary, has either a bevel or chamfer applied before enabling a subdivision/turbosmooth operation because it may not always be an option to use the conventional quadified poly strip method, in certain situations. 

poopipe

you need to work with triangles if you need control over edge orientation - eg. to maintain convexity and/or control normals

With a modern, high-ish poly, organic surface you'll rarely have to explicitly split a quad into triangles since there's generally enough geometry there to mean there's no artefacts to fix. 
With a low-poly model you need that control far more often

The important thing is to understand the strengths and weaknesses of all the tools you have at your disposal - that way you can apply the most appropriate method based on the object you're making. 

gnoop

I didn't use sub-D  for hard surface modelling for a decade already .     Because for hard surface things it's either  sbs   with  bevel node on uv islands     or  rounding  shaders  to bake into normal map.  Arnold , Octane , Cycles all  have them .  No hi res models necessary at all.      Or    sometimes its  CAD modelling but often doesn't require to bake anything too  , just fixing a few  vertex normals.  

 Baking is necessary only in a few very special  cases  but  even in this case  dynameshed  something in Zbrush  works perfectly fine as hi res source.  Even better since provides some necessary  imperfections.

 

So it's sort of puzzles me why  people do  Sub-D  except  in Zbrush for organic things and skeletal animation.   I thought  sub-D  it's sort of outdated approach  from 20 years ago when CAD modelling was to complicated , no normal transfers  yet , no dynamesh  , no quad remeshers . etc.      

pior

@gnoop : It depends on the game/art style. Are you actually *genuinely* wondering about it ?

gnoop

pior said:

@gnoop : It depends on the game/art style. Are you actually *genuinely* wondering about it ?

Yes, I do actually.  because with sub_D  for hard surfaces  you actually have to do  two models nevertheless. One with sud-D  for hi res  to bake . To be then  split into parts  with vertex normals matching   and another one  with  split edges ( smooth groups)  for your  actual game and LODs .   Sometimes totally unrelated to each other .    It's a double job while zbrush  re-mesher does just ok for hires source except  things like blades maybe.        

My guess  all that sub-D is for Unreal5  maybe   but I don't see we would ever use something like that in foreseeing future.

pior

Heya - care to link to your portfolio or some examples of recent work related to the above points ? This would allow to frame the explanation more suitably.

Neox

If okay is your goal, then yeah zbrush does an okay job

Ruz

A lot of people use boolean workflow anyway these days or just replace normal maps with bevel modifier for the major bevels, then addional normal maps

for the greebles. I am on board with what gnoop is saying here

Even bevel shaders baked to hard edges can do a reasonable job, except for close ups maybe.

littleclaude

If you're going to work in VR or Mobile/Tablet which is 60% of the games industry showing you can do the skill won't hurt for one of your thumbnails on ArtStation.

Example from - https://www.artstation.com/zombiedawgs

Isabel

@littleclaude Thank you, the examples makes things easier to understand. I guess there is also a lot to learn when using triangles in your modelling.