Noisy Refraction

.morph3us

I am trying to create an interactive turntable for the following object:

REFERENCE:
 


This is what I have right now:


As you can see, the transparent parts are heavily noisy in the marmoset viewer:


I have found these two models that do not have that problem. 
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/oAJv3J
https://earthquake.artstation.com/projects/eKbaD

Is that because they use the "add" model, which EQ describes here?
https://polycount.com/discussion/193738/getting-my-transparency-to-display-in-marmoset-like-it-does-in-painter

Why can I not set it up in my 4.05 version, was the "add shader" discontinued? Is there anything I can do to get rid of that noise?

Thanks very much for any replies!

EarthQuake

You'll want to use the Refraction or Thin Surface shading models available in the Transmission panel.

.morph3us

EQ, thanks for the fast response!
I have tried to cobble together something that vaguely resembles the reference, but it gets shown as a solid white object in the viewer...
Also, even if this would work in the viewer, is there an option to make the refraction less pixelated?

TOOLBAG VIEWPORT:

VIEWER RESULT:


The refraction model doesnt seem to support roughness in the viewer or have I set something wrong?
TOOLBAG:

VIEWER:

P.S.: I am sorry for asking such rudimentary questions, have I overlooked a handbook of some sort describing all the settings? I do know about https://marmoset.co/resources/, but I mean like a wiki of some sorts.

.morph3us

I am utterly sorry for the double post, but as this project is for work and my client is waiting for this, the matter is quite pressing to me.
If I need more immediate help, should I contact the Marmoset support directly? I feel I would end up talking with EQ again, just on another channel... :P

Also, I am not quite sure if indeed this is a bug or non existent feature or if I am just to dumb to use the program properly, so I actually wouldnt like to disturb the support team with this minor problem...

Could somebody please advise me on how to handle this properly? Thanks!

EDIT:
I've gone through this tutorial:
https://marmoset.co/posts/advanced-shaders-learn-toolbag-4-ep-7/
And at the beginning of the chapter "Transparent Materials", the narrator says that transmission is not supported in raster rendering mode.
As far as I understand, the Marmoset Viewer (the online one), does not support ray tracing?
So, am I trying the impossible here?

ReD-SpideR

xXm0RpH3usXx said:

EDIT:
I've gone through this tutorial:
https://marmoset.co/posts/advanced-shaders-learn-toolbag-4-ep-7/
And at the beginning of the chapter "Transparent Materials", the narrator says that transmission is not supported in raster rendering mode.
As far as I understand, the Marmoset Viewer (the online one), does not support ray tracing?
So, am I trying the impossible here?

Yes, transmissions mode will only work in the ray tracing engine, which Viewer is not.

You will have to use normal reflection/refraction/transparency methods to achieve some sort of middle ground look.

EarthQuake

The various Transmission modes work in raster mode and in Viewer. However, these are simplified real-time shaders and are not the high-quality, ray-traced effects seen in the ray-traced renderer.

I believe the only exception is the Thin Surface mode, which hasn't been added to Viewer yet. So try Refraction instead.

.morph3us

From left to right the three teapots have:
1.) a shader using transparency set to "dither" => way too noisy, cant get blurry
2.) a shader using "refraction"  => becomes crystal clear, almost unvisible after exporting 
2.) a shader using "thin surface" => becomes pure white after exporting


I sent this scene to Andrea Mele on friday, too, but didnt get any answer yet.

So, I am at a loss of what else to try or set up. Is it not possible to recreate this kind of material in the viewer?

EarthQuake

I had a deeper look at this today. It looks like:

1. Blurry refraction is not supported in Viewer
2. You may want to set Distortion Limit to 1.0 for export to Viewer, this will create a more noticeable distortion effect (the default value is tuned for corneas for typical character art assets)
3. You may be able to mimic the milky effect by adjusting the Mask value, which will blend between Lambertian and Refraction shading. Try 0.5 or 0.75.

Overall the Viewer refraction shader is much simpler than what is available in Toolbag 4, so it likely will not be possible to get an exact match.

.morph3us

I am sorry for the extremely late response, but I have been ill and on vacation afterwards and stuff.

Thank you very much for your clarification, I was able to able to provide my client with something passable and finish the job. 
https://www.fokuspunkt.de/wp-content/uploads/maico04/Maico_easyScreenBERAphone_03.html

I would love to see blurry refractions in the viewer in the future, though, can I put a feature request somewhere?
Just a simple gaussian blur of the refraction channel would be enough, really.