Need help understanding topology.

Kligan

Hello.

I've been modelling for a while and can create all sorts of stuff. Like these for example:


Yet, I'm still struggling with some shapes to create clean topology that won't result in pinching or distortions. It just doesn't "click" with me.
When I watch tutorials explaining topology, it all makes sense. But when there's some weird shapes that needs to be done on my own without any guidance… I sometimes struggle again and can't figure out what to do.
So I usually just resort to cheating and using zbrush to merge or substract stuff together with dynamesh and then decimating and exporting it back, to create my highpolys. I mean, if it works, right...? 
But I'm still bummed out that I have to do that.

For example, right now I need to make this shape:



When I got to this part, I got stuck:


I can't figure out how to make support loops without ruining everything after its gonna be smoothed out.

In the tutorials when they extrude something out of a cylinder, they usually just add support loops to hold the outer edges. But they never show how to increase the sharpness of the corners and just leave them rounded. 
Like this, for example, from a tutorial I just watched, thinking maybe I'll find something useful:

I don't understand how to make corners like that sharper without ruining the cylinder.

Can someone just show me on my example how to do it, please? Maybe then I'll finally understand it

The .fbx of my shape I'm trying to make on google drive: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Gnx62T1_0ZNxbYbviymioPSNsfYKHKhC

FrankPolygon

Focus on creating accurate shapes first then solve the major topology flow issues before adding the support loops. It's generally considered best practice to use the existing geometry of the larger shapes as part of the support loops around the areas where smaller shapes intersect the surface.

Treat the block out phase as an iterative process and use the shapes as a rough outline for routing the topology flow. This will make it easier to figure out how many segments the larger shapes need to support the smaller ones, before spending a lot of time merging everything together.

Support loops can then be added manually with loop cuts or by beveling / chamfering the edges that define the shapes and shape transitions. There's a lot of different ways to approach modeling and topology layout. Below is just one example of what it could look like.

The how to model thread is a great resource for these types of questions. There's a lot of examples that cover similar shapes and topology routing solutions. Definitely worth the time to skim through and look at how other artists solved similar problems.

Here's a few links to some recent discussions about using existing geometry as support, sharpening shapes on curved surfaces, and routing support loops around shape intersections.

https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2774628/#Comment_2774628

https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2779696/#Comment_2779696

https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2769713/#Comment_2769713

Here's a few more links to write-ups that cover using an iterative block out process for subdivision modeling.

https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2776197/#Comment_2776197
https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2777056/#Comment_2777056

https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2779298/#Comment_2779298

Kligan

@FrankPolygon
Thank you, that was helpful!
I made precisely what I needed:

Kligan

@FrankPolygon
Wow, your posts were actually REALLY helpful. It finally "clicked" with me what I have to do.
This shape would've been a struggle for me before: 

Huge thanks, again! 

FrankPolygon

@Kligan Not a problem. Glad the write-ups were helpful. Looks like you were able to work through the shapes successfully. Just wanted to mention, depending on what the model is for, sharper edge highlights can look good in renders but may need to be relaxed slightly for high poly to low poly baking. Keep up the good work.

Apstract

Hey, 
Nice to meet you all. Im an abstract artist and I'm currently enrolled in school studying 3D modeling with 3DS Max. I'd thought I'd get online and join a forum to learn more outside of my classroom as a lot of my stuff is done through online schooling. 

I was wondering if I could get some good advice for starting out. I've done my intro to modeling class and it was definitely a challenge. I think I struggle a lot with topology. More so I'm not sure what the best approach is for having consistent quad topology which I've been told will be incredibly important for sculpting. 

Are there any tips for really mastering modeling and getting into the mindset for making a variety of objects? Also what would you recommend I start creating so that I can get through sculpting this semester. 

Fabi_G

@Apstract Hi! I recommend giving the wiki and stickied threads a look to get an overview. Did you check out the links in FrankyPolygon's reply? Using the forums search function, you should find plenty of threads on the topic of "starting out" too. 

Given that you posted in a thread with props examples and write of objects, I assume your interested in props? In my opinion, the best way to learn, would be to finish a few projects (bi-monthly challenge?) and share your progress. Keep the scope small to increase your chance of finishing things. Personally, I find sculpting more useful for organic subjects and/or a detail/damage pass. Good luck!

Eric Chadwick

I miss Frank

gnoop

I think it's good skill to learn in general  and indeed helpful in certain circumstances when you need to  re-think the model shape  but  in actual production  such details doesn't even require hi res models  to bake  from .   You will be wasting you time  for a sake of  "sport" of perfect topology .

People do this lately  with edge rounding  shaders , tricks  straight in  SPainter  + normal decals  or  CAD model export for hi res.      In a word  sub-D with "perfect"  topology  is not only way.   And it  doesn''t make you free of hi to low  baking headaches.          I would do such things   with primitives  booleans,  normals transfer and rounding  shader.