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How much of a sinner am I? I have no idea what I'm doing.

polycounter lvl 5
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Terkan polycounter lvl 5

I'm proving to be a bad student that is bad at paying attention and following guides, so I'm just doing stuff that doesn't work while trying to model a car body for practice. I JRemeshed it a few times around 5k vertices, then eventually twice to 100,000 vertices. All with Auto Mirror in-between because the thin edges always get fcked up in a non-mirrored way. I try to use smooth, and go in to edit and delete verts and reconnect the mesh, and I'm doing a bad job it seems.

Cube_rm_rm_rm_rm (4x) rear detail:

Cube_rm_rm_rm (3x, earlier more workable version) rear detail:

The 3x rm's shark fin after some mesh connecting in edit mode:

(I got it all connected but there's this weird unselectable geometry I don't understand. also obviously it looks bad shape-wise, haven't even tried to correct that again yet. (And yeah, including a fin at all is weird, I just pulled one out of the mesh as part of messing around and noticed it serves as a point of challenge for me in figuring out how to deal with sharp geometry, so I haven't removed it or really considered it's role in the model itself.))

Anyways, is using Jremesh bad? Or am I using it bad?

I'm curious if there are any other kinds of tips/lamentations you want to share after seeing this mess?

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  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter

    The mirror modifier in Blender (and all the clever tools built around it, like Automirror) is not as reliable as it is in other apps, partly because of the way it tend to allow components to cross over the middle line. I personally don't trust it at all. As a matter of fact I just gave the Automirror process a try, slapping a remesh on top and going back to the base mesh for some sculpting, and sure enough some faces crossed over the middle line resulting in a mess quite similar to your issue.

    So if you're just sculpting a raw mesh, don't use any such modifier and just go to edit mode once in a while, select all components (any would do, but it would make the most face to use Face mode) and perform Mesh>Symmetrize. Assuming that your transforms are clean to begin with it will perfectly symmetrize your mesh with clean meshing in the middle. And then keep on sculpting as usual with x symmetry enabled. Hopefully a modifier version of Symmetrize or a reworked version of Mirror will be available one day but until then I personally stick to manual Symmetrize.

    As for Jremesh : the Jayanam tools are always very clean so one can assume that your issue comes from somewhere else. But there are plenty of other ways to get a model remeshed nowadays anyways. The default instant remesh is very serviceable, and then there's also QuadRemesher and a few others.

    But overall your issue most likely comes from the use of the Mirror modifier (that Automirror is using). Your only sin was to trust a modifier too much :D

  • zetheros
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    zetheros polycounter lvl 8

    lol, for cars and hard surface models in general, you want a subdivision workflow where you make a lowpoly, then subdivide it. Make use of edgeloops and in general start low (poly) and work high. Using mirror isn't even the main issue here imo

  • Terkan
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    Terkan polycounter lvl 5

    @pior tyvm for the info

    @zetheros does that also apply when the working method I want to use is claylike modeling for just experimenting with shapes? In contrast to what I understand to be hardsurface which I gather is a very predetermined and optimized type of modeling for proper topology and edge flow.

    I'm now realizing I probably should have used an iso sphere for claylike modeling/sculpting, that going with a cube was probably a big mistake,

  • Cibo
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    Cibo polycounter lvl 10

    Zetheros is right. The Density on your Mesh is to high for a smooth surface. At the end you have alot of Bumps and will smooth and smear alot to correct your mistakes,. Its nearly impossible to have such a clean and smooth surface like a car this way.

  • sacboi
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    sacboi insane polycounter

    I must be out of touch or missing something?!

    But typically when blocking out - then further refining a workable base mesh from scratch, especially for surfaces that require reflective materials. It is usually best practice based off of experience, to start with minimal geometry (...low density topology) instead of initially relying on procedural or sculptural techniques (...unless you know what you're doing) which will actually cause more problems that novices specifically seem to think, may mitigate.

    So my suggestion, is firstly re-think your self-learning practical strategy by simply beginning to nail down basic principles modeling these types of objects, for instance this resource was quite useful in helping me too fine tune a personal subd polygonal workflow, I'd utilized for a number of years:

    https://www.ebalstudios.com/blog/modeling-cars-polygons

  • Terkan
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    Terkan polycounter lvl 5

    Sorry, but I'm not trying to model a Mercedes.

    I meant it when I said I want to model it like clay.

    To just pull out a blob or put a blob somewhere without having planned it 100 moves in advance.

    I might be interested in learning to model it like that perfect Mercedes much farther down the line, if I get a shape I'm happy with from the clay stage. If I don't get a good clay model there's no point the perfect hardsurface method. There is no lack of 3D models of existing vehicles, I'm not trying to add to that pile. I'm trying to sculpt and design a car I'd personally like, and see where that takes me.

    If that's out of my reach as it seems to be because Blender can't do that and Zbrush is too expensive for my economic class then I guess I'll just go unhinged instead.

  • sacboi
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    sacboi insane polycounter

    Well understanding how to concept a given vehicle regardless of make, via conventional sub-divided polygonal processes to begin with prior to branching out on your own, would be beneficial in terms of invested time + effort however at the end of the day of course, it's your call:

    Anyway here's something that might be of interest - Sculpting a car in Blender 2.8

    https://www.youtube.com/c/BaptisteG/videos

  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter

    "I'm trying to sculpt and design a car I'd personally like, and see where that takes me."

    That's a perfectly valid way of approaching the design. And again and as explained in my above post, your technical problem causing glitches in the middle of your organic sculpt here is your use of the Mirror modifier, as well as your attempt at using a remesher operating at the object level.

    For organic remesh-based sculpting in Blender the symmetry must come from X symmetry being activated in sculpt mode (thus mirroring your brush strokes) and the remeshing must come from the remesh options from within sculpting mode. And also as said, the one way to fix your model as it currently is is to collapse the modifier stack, go to edit mode, and perform a Symmetrize along X. Then you'll be good to go.

    If you want to 100% understand all that with a demo then just upload your file for someone to show you. It's a 10 seconds fix.

  • zetheros
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    zetheros polycounter lvl 8

    ...not really 100 steps to plan for making simple hardsurface geometry. It's actually a fairly easy 2-3 steps, and you don't have to have anything planned in advance. It's also a lot easier to make changes big and small along the way.

    Also for your purposes, you could just get a subscription of Zbrush Core for 10 USD/month. IDK where you live, but that's not a lot of money at all, and it comes with basically everything you need for this project.

    Heck just below this thread is this one here https://polycount.com/discussion/231546/free-or-cheep-software-for-students-cost-or-alternatives-for-freelancers#latest

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