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Use of the original logo

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Hello everyone. I have no knowledge about digital versions of the product and their correct presentation for sale. Would love to hear some good advice on this.

For example, I am making a 3D model, specifically weapons. I want to put it for sale in the stores in the future. Many parts (stock, scope, magazine, etc.) have their own original names and logos, can I directly transfer them to my weapon model? 

On the Internet, I came across various information. Someone says that it will be enough just to indicate the name of the original product in the description, etc.. Someone even says that such use entails litigation. At the same time, I came across a huge number of models where the original names and logos are drawn (not only weapons), and that models are for sale.

So the question is - can I do this, transfer the original logos, or do I need to come up with my own names and draw my own logos? And the next question - will it not be worse?


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  • kanga
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    kanga ngon master

    Take a lead from a game like GTA. To be perfectly safe from litigation avoid any forms that look copied from excising products (logos should be avoided entirely). Use your imagination, develop your own ideas.

  • rexo12
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    rexo12 greentooth

    In general, copyright law permits you to do nothing with a piece of media without permission from the owner. It is only through license agreements and such that permit you to reproduce, modify, distribute etc the media. It should be obvious whether or not you have an agreement with the copyright owner.

    You don't know, some of those models you've come across may have actually acquired rights to display those names and logos (not uncommon for big game productions).

    In practice it's not a huge deal if you're not selling the work (and even then it's unlikely someone will come after you - but why expose yourself to that risk?)

    I'm not sure what you mean by creating fake names & logos 'being worse'?

  • Alex_J
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    Alex_J godlike master sticky

    nobody cares about the logo or name. You could just as well not have one at all.

  • Tiles
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    Tiles greentooth

    Most companies cares pretty much. Especially in games. Just search how many companies got sued by Bethesda alone :)

    It's not only copyright though that comes in place here, but also trademark.

    Better stay at the safe side. Using a logo without permission from the company / original author is illegal.

  • sacboi
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    sacboi insane polycounter

    imo, get proper legal advice instead of reliance on the web


    however via limited experience (selling gear) here's 2 cents worth...

    Either make your own stuff or ensure whatever gun thing you've in mind selling has an expired trademark (look it up!) in order too avoid litigious shit or karma stalking your ass.

  • Psy_Ti

    Ok thanks. If I make a model using images and sketches (of weapon) from open sources, and put my own logo and name on it? Would it be better then?

  • sacboi
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    sacboi insane polycounter

    If you're referring too content under Creative Commons licensing?

    then firstly I do recommend making yourself aware of their various permissive options.

    or

    just some random thing posted online, then simple courtesy still dictates according credit (design inspiration...etc) whether specified or not.

  • Psy_Ti

    Sorry, I don't quite understand what you mean. For the first time I want to put up a model for sale. Model from a real weapon, made from photos and pictures. What is the correct license to choose for this

  • Psy_Ti

    I mean, what if I create a weapon model from a photo from the original, but in the place where the original logos and names should be, I draw and come up with my own names?

  • Alex_J
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    Alex_J godlike master sticky

    sorry, just to clarify what i meant :


    i mean, nobody buying stock models is going to want to see some logo on it, so if there is any question of legalities it's probably better to just not put any logo on at all.

    In other words, reward is nothing, risk is big. So why risk at all?

  • Tiles
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    Tiles greentooth

    Ah i see. And i see it equal :)

  • Tiles
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    Tiles greentooth

    Sure, as long as you don't break copyright or licenses with it. Even CC0 content can mean that you are forced to give at least credits.

    What you should not do is to use material without any explicit permission. No license that grants you permission means keep your hands away.

  • Psy_Ti
    thanks, I understand you. Tell me which license is usually chosen when selling for stock models that exist (for example, weapons, equipment, furniture, etc.)
    


  • Tiles
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    Tiles greentooth

    Just read the license.

  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter

    "I mean, what if I create a weapon model from a photo from the original, but in the place where the original logos and names should be, I draw and come up with my own names?"

    If you do that, you would 100% be infringing on the intellectual property of whoever owns the design, regardless of you slapping in the real branding/logo or your own made up one. Whether or not some people manage to get away with this kind of stuff is irrelevant.

    Your question boils down to "Is it legal to sell something based on a design that don't own any licence for", and the answer is no.

    But more specifically, since your actual question is more like "how can I get away with selling something based on a design that I don't own a license for" ... then you'll have to figure out your own little recipe man. People here are not going to give you advice on how to steal other people's (or companies) intellectual properties.

  • Psy_Ti

    no. my question is of direct importance, I'm new to this, and I want to understand at least superficially. I'm learning modeling and I want to try putting the model up for sale. I don't even understand what you mean when you say "steal other people's (or companies) intellectual properties."

    I also heard the answer that you can easily exhibit branded models, with some exceptions (for example, bmw), but at the same time choosing an editorial license in the sales store and indicating the names of the originals, etc.

    "And the editorial license means that the intellectual property (design, idea of ​​the model) belongs to the company (for example Volkswagen). So if somebody buys such 3D model from you the must buyer ask for permission to use the model commercially For you nothing complicated or dangerous - you only choose this type of license."

    Is not it?

  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter

    No. If you don't own a commercial license specifically granted by the owner of a design (for example Volkswagen) to sell models based on said design, then you can't sell such models. It's as simple as that. You don't get to magically grant yourself or others a license to this or that - you need to obtain these rights first.

    Again : if you're asking/hoping about some sort of sneaky workaround to bypass that, you won't find such an answer here.

    At the end of the day you're free to interpret anything you find or "hear" online as the truth instead of actually asking the question directly to a copyright lawyer. It's all up to you man.

  • Psy_Ti
    Here is another excerpt from the forum cgtrader
    

    Editorial license means that customer can't use obtained product commercially. Usually you want to sell your models under editorial use license, if your model is partially covered by copyrighted material and you didn't acquired rights to use it. For example, if you created existing in real world car model, you can't​ legally sell it under regular royalty free license. in fact, even selling it under editorial license is a bit of a grey area, but it's​ common practice in 3d model stock market, so you should be ok with that."

  • Tiles
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    Tiles greentooth

    Pior is right. The rule is really simple: When it isn't clear then one thing is clear: keep your hands away.

  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter

    to the OP : the CGtrader thing you are quoting is not the law. And, it claiming that a practice is a "gray area" or that you might be "ok with that" doesn't mean that it's legal - it just means that people generally don't get caught ... and that CGTrader is more than happy to make some $$$ in the process.

    I understand that it's not the answer that you want to hear, but that's how it is. If you don't own a license to commercially sell something, then you can't exploit it commercially legally. That's it. It being a common practice or a "gray area", or it being done by thousands of people doesn't change anything about it.

  • Psy_Ti
  • Ruz
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    Ruz ngon master

    what about having scenes with rela logos, for example I am using heineken and Hiite logo in my renders. Should I chnage them to fake logos

    wbut look similar?

    I changed 'paris baguette' to 'Boris Baguete? is that ok but it looks very similar

  • poopipe
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    poopipe veteran polycounter

    You definitely want to not use copyrighted stuff like a Heineken logo. That's pretty clear cut cos it's definitely someone else's IP


    The rest of it is a gray area. If a logo is just text using a standard font and you change the spelling/words you're probably ok but if it's got some other design elements in you'd most likely want to change something about those as well.

    I remember having to redesign a bottle because it looked quite a lot like an absolut bottle despite the label being very different. it wasn't a guaranteed problem but our legal dept weren't prepared to take the risk on it.

  • Ruz
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    Ruz ngon master

    fair enough, will do that, hard work though if you are not a great graphic designer ( like me)

    we used to change the names of cricket teams when I was working on sports games ie similar sounding names like 'ravid brakham' or something.:)

    i always wonder though if you were depeciting a real scene, why should it be illegal , becase its already out there?

  • poopipe
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    poopipe veteran polycounter

    People and institutions have a right to protect their reputation.

    Their view of what's damaging to reputation may well not align with yours - if the scene contained something else they felt reflected badly on them it'd be perfectly reasonable for them to insist that you don't use their name.

    Could also be as simple as some sort of exclusivity clause in another business arrangement as well


    It's a lot safer/cheaper/easier to just assume they wouldn't want their name on things in most cases

  • emilywaatson
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    emilywaatson polycounter lvl 2

    Well said. Check their creative common licensing rights before using in your work.

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