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Baking with a Cage and multiple materials breaks all material bakes but one.

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DirtyBlueFL polycounter lvl 6
I have set up a model to mimic a hand wearing a bracelet. The hand is one contiguous closed mesh. The Bracelet is one contiguous closed mesh, which intersects the hand slightly. The fingers are tight together and have high poly data which exists outside of the low poly volume. To capture this data without intersecting bake rays, I need a cage file. The hand and bracelet each have their own material, and their UVs both occupy the 0:1 UV space. All meshes are named with matching names, suffixes, and case.

When I bake without a cage, the bake fails to capture the high poly details which exist outside the volume of the low poly.
When I bake with a cage, the first material in the material array bakes fine. But each material after that will inherit the bake data of all materials above it in the array. This happens in Substance Painter and Toolbag 4 when using a custom cage. I have gone through the process of elimination by flipping all the variables for baking I can think of.

I feel like I've been teleported to an alternate universe where this breaks, because I swear this used to work. I have tried 3 different Substance Painter builds. What "should" happen is that each Material (Hand, Brace) get their own set of bakes, with their AO bakes detecting each bake group and applying shadow across each material.

I have put a zip folder in this google drive link for anyone who wishes to pull the FBX files and try for themselves.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PZ-JmQdDTP8TJ8YygqmhTYjZqa-VGP7O/view?usp=sharing

"Why don't you use UDIMs?"
That is beyond the point. These materials should not inherit the bake data of those baked before them.


Low Poly



High Poly



Cage



Without Cage



With Cage, Both Materials


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  • DirtyBlueFL
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    DirtyBlueFL polycounter lvl 6
    Bump for help.
  • kio
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    kio polycounter lvl 16
    not sure what your doing works just fine?



    i just played with the distance settings a bit, as I tend to avoid setting up cages for painter - im not sure whats going on there..
  • DirtyBlueFL
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    DirtyBlueFL polycounter lvl 6
    Cages should just *work* though. They're meant to control ray distance when universal values cause overlap. But now, with multiple materials, cages are causing all materials after the first to inherit prior bake information.
  • poopipe
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    poopipe grand marshal polycounter
    can you fix it by disabling objects in the bake window?  perhaps cages override bake by name ? 

  • kio
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    kio polycounter lvl 16
    I don't have the time to check what's going on with the cages, can't give any input on that ;)

    just wanted add a note: I really don't use cages in painter,
     (been working with it for years and also in the studio noone I know uses this feature..)

    they're a maintenance nightmare -  just doubling your lowpoly mesh count is quite annoying... And baking in painter is always a bit blindfolded anyways ...

    most issues can easily be solved with match by name splitting of objects and or exploding/offsetting objects..

    Not saying it's useless - but I just try to keep it simple and stupid, there are always so many things which can go wrong..


  • DirtyBlueFL
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    DirtyBlueFL polycounter lvl 6
    poopipe said:
    can you fix it by disabling objects in the bake window?  perhaps cages override bake by name ? 

    I am not sure what you mean by disabling objects, but I'm interested.

    kio said:
     just doubling your lowpoly mesh count is quite annoying... And baking in painter is always a bit blindfolded anyways ...

    most issues can easily be solved with match by name splitting of objects and or exploding/offsetting objects..

    Doubling the low poly mesh count where? In folders or the scene?
    I almost always bake in Toolbag these days for the skew and offset painting. Offset painting is effectively a dynamic cage used to fix intersecting self-baking  :/
    Exploded bakes don't give us accurate AO though...

    My students only have access to baking in Substance Painter, so this seemingly illogical bake inheritance is something I'd really like to solve for them. I haven't been able to find anyone else online talking about this phenomenon. 
  • gnoop
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    gnoop sublime tool
    I have not baked  in Painter for a while . But from what I remember  It can't use a shared  cage file  .     Doesn't  recognize  any objects  naming  inside cage  file.   You  would have to bake several times  loading  individual cages  for  each object  and then save and  stack resulting textures .   
    So it's not multi-materials issue  . Rather multi-cage one.
      
    Not tried in last version although.      Imo too many omissions  in their baker .

  • poopipe
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    poopipe grand marshal polycounter
    i think you're right gnoop - which is why i suggested disabling the objects  (top left bit of the bake window lets you change what's included  iirc)
  • DirtyBlueFL
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    DirtyBlueFL polycounter lvl 6
    Innnnnnteresting. Thank you, I'll give that a go.
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