3D's max projection method

steelman90

Hello everyone.

I've been browsing the internet lately for some tutorials on projection in 3ds max.  and i came across an old post by a CS:GO workshop artist Apel. 

He showed some of his progress on his wips provided in this link : https://polycount.com/discussion/170719/pc-csgo-awp-phobos-shipping-in-a-weapon-case

and this one as well :  https://polycount.com/discussion/182135/usp-s-phobos

I've tried to contact him to discuss what was his workflow on how he managed to do the camera projection within 3ds max and this was an old response from him : "

1. Render angle to a picture and bake it into a planar mesh as a texture;
2. Overpaint rendered picture;
3. Replace planar texture picture;
4. Bake back planar picture into a saved angle, use a camera for that. "
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know the 3dcoat method, but it isnt what i am looking for,  if anyone can help me what he means by these steps that will be really helpful. i am trying to do in 3ds max but i cant figure what was the exact workflow that was done on his method.

Thanks everyone in advance!

Eric Chadwick

For what purpose are you trying to do this method? This is a really ancient way to texture, which has since been supplanted with much more efficient methods.

If you're trying to mod the texture for an existing weapon model, you could paint in 3D instead (Substance Painter, 3D Coat, etc.) There's also the 3d paint app Viewport Canvas inside 3ds Max, which has its share of bugs but isn't half bad for painting oldschool diffuse maps. 

steelman90

Well i'm just curious on learning this method, i know that 3dcoat and substance painter do the same thing, but i just want to know this workflow. if possible can anyone help me out with it? it will be helpful

steelman90

I tried to do it using Camera per pixel, is it the way how to do it? Not really sure...

Eric Chadwick

Viewport Canvas does this with its projection. Try it out.

https://youtu.be/SrGl6idHUUo?t=90 There's also the Clone tool, to clone from a 2D image onto your 3D model.

steelman90

But what he did is that he rendered out a side view screenshot, put it in photoshop, masked it so he paints within the image border,  and project it back into a UV ready 3D mesh all within  3dsmax without lose of quality, how ?

Eric Chadwick

That's exactly what's going on with Viewport Canvas. Except no need to use Photoshop.

There's no quality loss, if the texture is high enough resolution.

What's the resolution of the textures for these assets?

That artist may be working in a higher resolution (say, 2048) and showing beauty renders using those high-res textures. But in the end, down-sampling for the final in-game delivery (maybe 512).

The beauty of using a 3d painter like this, is what you see is what you get. You're painting directly into the UVs of the model.

PolyHertz

https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2698468

Eric Chadwick

Aw shit, haha fml

steelman90

Eric Chadwick said:

That's exactly what's going on with Viewport Canvas. Except no need to use Photoshop.

There's no quality loss, if the texture is high enough resolution.

What's the resolution of the textures for these assets?

That artist may be working in a higher resolution (say, 2048) and showing beauty renders using those high-res textures. But in the end, down-sampling for the final in-game delivery (maybe 512).

The beauty of using a 3d painter like this, is what you see is what you get. You're painting directly into the UVs of the model.

The final texture should be 2048x2048. no down scaling or sampling needed. 

steelman90

PolyHertz said:

https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2698468

Yes i have made this thread a while ago, but was experimenting with some projection in 3dsmax since i tried to do the baking into a plane then projecting it back into a 3d UV'ed model. if posting it again is against polycount rules, then i am not aware of it  

Eric Chadwick

Why not follow advice given?

steelman90

Eric Chadwick said:

Why not follow advice given?

I have tried to follow it, but i always get strange down scaling and the projection always project the texture with low resolution. with some strange artifact. thats why i was asking if someone can kindly tell me what am i doing wrong here. if i can't post questions here to learn then i get it.

Eric Chadwick

Questions are totally cool.

Probably your Viewport Config is set to a low resolution for Texture Maps: http://help.autodesk.com/view/3DSMAX/2019/ENU/?guid=GUID-502A94D2-0037-407B-95BC-6CD90067740B
Which version of 3ds Max are you using? 
Can you show a screenshot of the strange downscaling? 

Eric Chadwick

Reviewing the previous thread, you discovered a core limitation of the texture projection technique, it only handles planar projections, it doesn't work around corners or curves. No 3d painter really solves this.

The way the original author handled it was to avoid painting on oblique areas., moving the camera, rendering, painting, and reprojecting. This is really slow. 3D Paint really speeds this up a ton.

Kanni3d

Honestly, I would say forget what the original author does, and just 3d paint like many, many people have recommended you to do. Tons of people that do workshop skins use 3D paint tools/Painter. The time it takes to pick up Painter, watch a few videos, and learn its software will inevitably save you so much time, headache, and frustration, which has been clearly plaguing you for more than a year. Trying to learn an outdated, ancient, sluggish way of achieving a similar result that you can do a fraction of the time in Painter doesn't seem worth it 

steelman90

Eric Chadwick said:

Reviewing the previous thread, you discovered a core limitation of the texture projection technique, it only handles planar projections, it doesn't work around corners or curves. No 3d painter really solves this.

The way the original author handled it was to avoid painting on oblique areas., moving the camera, rendering, painting, and reprojecting. This is really slow. 3D Paint really speeds this up a ton.

 is it possible if you can kindly provide some screenshots as example of how you think the original author did this method? that'll be really helpful because i just want to understand the concept of it.  Thank you again for the response

Eric Chadwick

I'm not interested in the old technique, I've experienced too much pain working that way, so glad we don't have to do that anymore. But you can read about it here https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2698476/#Comment_2698476

steelman90

I've tried baking a screenshot into a plane mesh but the texture from the bottom are grey. any ideas why?  the textures projected fine on the top across the model, but there is an issue when projecting, its not projecting exactly 100% correct. 

Here are some test screenshots.

Eric Chadwick

What projection technique are you using?

You should overpaint the edges of the model, when painting your textures.

You may also need to use an orthographic camera, rather than a perspective one.

steelman90

Eric Chadwick said:

What projection technique are you using?

You should overpaint the edges of the model, when painting your textures.

You may also need to use an orthographic camera, rather than a perspective one.

i am not using the clone tool. viewport canvas is not used here at all, i am using a camera per pixel technique, i've rendered a side view of the model and baked it into a plane mesh, and using the camera mapping modifier for projection. but i dont get why some parts of the model are grey 

Eric Chadwick

I would suggest you render a wireframe, then reproject it back onto the model, then turn on shaded wireframe. Compare the two. See where it breaks down, and refine your process until the wireframes match up.