Home Career & Education

Curious about this note about confidentiality in an art test brief I received

Maned_Wolf
polycounter lvl 3
Offline / Send Message
Maned_Wolf polycounter lvl 3


Referring to the part about "we will reserve the rights to take further action", what can they do realistically? Keep in mind I was not shown a confidentiality agreement and I never signed anything. Is it an empty threat? The assignment btw was in no way tied to any specific IP either. The brief was very open-ended. Literally just had to design a hero character for a fictional MOBA game. So why should they care? 

Did this test a few weeks ago. I've yet to hear back but in the event that my test gets turned down I would've liked to upload it to my portfolio so that I might have at least gotten something out of the time and effort spent on this, y'know? 

Replies

  • Alex_J
    Offline / Send Message
    Alex_J grand marshal polycounter
    Did you discuss it with them?
  • Maned_Wolf
    Offline / Send Message
    Maned_Wolf polycounter lvl 3
    @Alex Javor

    No I haven't discussed it with them. They just mentioned it a few times that I can't post it to social media or my portfolio. My only communication with them was through email. 
  • NikhilR
    Offline / Send Message
    NikhilR polycounter
    @Alex Javor

    No I haven't discussed it with them. They just mentioned it a few times that I can't post it to social media or my portfolio. My only communication with them was through email. 
    I've personally never had an art test that was limited to recruitment, I mean during the process I wouldn't show it, but after I would.
    There was no confidentiality agreement in place either since it was exclusive from internal project work.
  • Maned_Wolf
    Offline / Send Message
    Maned_Wolf polycounter lvl 3
    @NikhilR Yeah, this is a strange one. I mean the brief was so open ended I would think it would be considered exclusive from internal project work. Unless they don't want people to know even what kind of game they're working on. Bottom line though I never signed or stated I agreed nor did they ever ask so isn't their confidentiality agreement invalid then? 
  • NikhilR
    Offline / Send Message
    NikhilR polycounter
    @NikhilR Yeah, this is a strange one. I mean the brief was so open ended I would think it would be considered exclusive from internal project work. Unless they don't want people to know even what kind of game they're working on. Bottom line though I never signed or stated I agreed nor did they ever ask so isn't their confidentiality agreement invalid then? 
    It would be difficult to enforce without you signing on it. 
    For a test like this I would expect some manner of compensation, the very least I'll definitely want to add the piece in my portfolio.
    Only reason I'm thinking they'd say something like this is if they are providing you with a concept under NDA, which is likely going to make it to their game as a 3D model through their internal team, though that's really sketchy behaviour for a company.

    Meaning I've never had a company assign me an art test based on a concept that is part of their project and is under NDA (not yet live/published in game), because it muddies the line between this being an art test and them having the ability to use some part of the model.

    Like even if they say that they won't, seeing the thing in 3D without any compensation is improper.
    Since one task that 3D artists sometimes do is look dev/previz work, translating a 2D concept to 3D so that the studio can see what it looks like (even if it isn't final)
    In this case you're doing all the steps and giving them a finished model, and even seeing it realized (if it comes from an internal concept) is something you ought to be paid for.


  • Maned_Wolf
    Offline / Send Message
    Maned_Wolf polycounter lvl 3
    @NikhilR Oh actually it was a concept artist-based test. I had applied for a concept artist role not a 3d artist role.
  • sacboi
    Offline / Send Message
    sacboi high dynamic range
    hmm...a not too subtle litigious threat and no compensation as well, for me would've been an obvious red flag/s

     
  • slosh
    Offline / Send Message
    slosh hero character
    I would say wait a bit before adding it to your folio.  I've added tests to my folio but not til a decent amount of time had passed.  You could still show it to potential employers via a password protected wall.  But adding it publicly could burn a potential bridge with that employer and possibly others.  Especially if someone recognizes it as being from a specific studio.
  • Biomag
    Offline / Send Message
    Biomag sublime tool
    I can't say that that is an uncommon line. On the one hand most lawyers will probably suggest having it in there to cover all bases (legal language always sounds harsh as it is ment to leave no doubt how far they CAN go), but actually many companies don't want their art tests to be shared so that they can re-use them and have something to compare to. No point in comparing how someone does a new assignment if the assignment can be found all over the internet and thus be practised.

    The other thing -. and that actually should go without saying - postiing an art test without the companies explicit consent runs the risk of copyright infringments. I mean its completely obivous working from their concept, no matter if its part of the project or not, but also if you are asked to do concepts for their IP. That's why the line is in the contract there to make sure there is no grey area just because some artist wants to be smart about it. And even if its not written down, its a common practise to keep art test unpublished so that you can at least assume that they might have an issue with that.

    If you want to use your art test for self-promotiion ask for permission.


    Final note:
    You don't need an extra NDA-agreement if its stated in your contract that you shall not show that stuff or talk about it. NDAs are just more precise to cover more ground. But yes, they can take legal action if you accept to do the art test as this will most likely in your country be enough to establish a binding contract between you and them based on what's written in the offer/assignment they gave you. Things that are not explicitly mentioned in the contract just mean that its up to the law to fill it out. So to know how far they can go you should talk to a lawyer that is familiar with the law that has to be applied to the contract. But again, I wouldn't get scared by the way its written there. To me its sounds just like standard practise and talked over with them directly.
  • Maned_Wolf
    Offline / Send Message
    Maned_Wolf polycounter lvl 3
    slosh said:
    I would say wait a bit before adding it to your folio.  I've added tests to my folio but not til a decent amount of time had passed.  You could still show it to potential employers via a password protected wall.  But adding it publicly could burn a potential bridge with that employer and possibly others.  Especially if someone recognizes it as being from a specific studio.
    You mean to say in the case that I would want to apply to them again at a later stage? That's true, it would most likely be a dealbreaker for them in terms of considering my application again if they know that I had posted my art test.

    Legally though, I'm not sure how they could enforce something I never officially agreed to in the first place. 
  • Maned_Wolf
    Offline / Send Message
    Maned_Wolf polycounter lvl 3
    sacboi said:
    hmm...a not too subtle litigious threat and no compensation as well, for me would've been an obvious red flag/s

     
    True. Unfortunately the struggle to find a job in this field is real and I feel like I don't have many options. In my previous job the management side of the studio left much to be desired as well but working with the art team more than made up for it. So I'm always hoping that to be the case... 
  • Alex_J
    Offline / Send Message
    Alex_J grand marshal polycounter


    Legally though, I'm not sure how they could enforce something I never officially agreed to in the first place. 

    Disregarding legal ramifications, is the reward of putting the model in portfolio greater than potential risk of starting some kind of feud with these people?

    That's why I am suggest you talk to them personally.

    And regarding legal ramifications, I do believe there is such thing as an implied agreement, or some language along those lines. What it means is that "it wasn't written down and signed" isn't a get out of jail free card. There are many methods for people to make a legally binding agreement.
  • Maned_Wolf
    Offline / Send Message
    Maned_Wolf polycounter lvl 3


    Legally though, I'm not sure how they could enforce something I never officially agreed to in the first place. 

    Disregarding legal ramifications, is the reward of putting the model in portfolio greater than potential risk of starting some kind of feud with these people?

    That's why I am suggest you talk to them personally.

    And regarding legal ramifications, I do believe there is such thing as an implied agreement, or some language along those lines. What it means is that "it wasn't written down and signed" isn't a get out of jail free card. There are many methods for people to make a legally binding agreement. 
    It's actually a few concept art pieces that I'd theoretically be putting in my portfolio. But anyways I wasn't really intending to go through with it. This is more just a question I ask coming from a place of curiosity.  

    Also I don't want to talk to them personally right now because I'm still awaiting the results of the test. I don't want to potentially dissuade them from hiring me even if it's just a question I'm asking. 
  • NikhilR
    Offline / Send Message
    NikhilR polycounter


    Legally though, I'm not sure how they could enforce something I never officially agreed to in the first place. 

    Disregarding legal ramifications, is the reward of putting the model in portfolio greater than potential risk of starting some kind of feud with these people?

    That's why I am suggest you talk to them personally.

    And regarding legal ramifications, I do believe there is such thing as an implied agreement, or some language along those lines. What it means is that "it wasn't written down and signed" isn't a get out of jail free card. There are many methods for people to make a legally binding agreement. 
    It's actually a few concept art pieces that I'd theoretically be putting in my portfolio. But anyways I wasn't really intending to go through with it. This is more just a question I ask coming from a place of curiosity.  

    Also I don't want to talk to them personally right now because I'm still awaiting the results of the test. I don't want to potentially dissuade them from hiring me even if it's just a question I'm asking. 
    I like @slosh approach of having your portfolio for recruitment with these pieces behind a password, or bringing up a few pieces during interview time if asked for.

    I'm not too sure how NDA's work in such situations, likely more a don't ask don't tell approach. 

    If anything I wish there was more transparency in workplace NDA's across the board, there ought to be a limit to how much confidentiality is possible in any given situation, but there are times when it really goes too far simply because of the legal ramifications of it or just plain paranoia.



  • pior
    Online / Send Message
    pior grand marshal polycounter
    "... I wish there was more transparency in workplace NDA's across the board"

    IMHO this is a fallacy, as the clarity of the terms of a contract depends on both parties involved. If the terms are not clear enough or not to your liking, *you* get to refuse them and/or edit them.

    It's easy : print out the contract draft, scratch the terms you don't like or want clarification on, rewrite the paragraph to your liking, and send it back for review for the other party. Rince and repeat until you reach an agreement, then sign. Or don't reach an agreement, and don't sign. That's literally what a contract draft is for.
  • NikhilR
    Offline / Send Message
    NikhilR polycounter
    pior said:
    "... I wish there was more transparency in workplace NDA's across the board"

    IMHO this is a fallacy, as the clarity of the terms of a contract depends on both parties involved. If the terms are not clear enough or not to your liking, *you* get to refuse them and/or edit them.

    It's easy : print out the contract draft, scratch the terms you don't like or want clarification on, rewrite the paragraph to your liking, and send it back for review for the other party. Rince and repeat until you reach an agreement, then sign. Or don't reach an agreement, and don't sign. That's literally what a contract draft is for.
    I don't think he has a contract to actually sign for his art test.

    His situation is more like if he doesn't agree he can piss off. 
     Its not all that different from 3rd party where if you don't agree to risk your life to meet first party deadlines you can choose to become redundant so the government will take care of you until we can reason with 1st party to drop their paranoia and put a faceless persons life before their balance sheet.

    Like OP certainly isn't risking his life either way, but it is a legitimate question, he's just wondering what the point of their rigidness is, and why something he's doing for an art test needs to be protected to the point that his uncompensated work can't be put in a portfolio so he gets something out of the experience. 

    They could certainly be flexible, for instance allow showcasing in the portfolio and not indicate what it is or where its from. 
    Good possibility others before him have already shown their work on the same art test to rival employees through password protected portfolios.
    So what's the bloody point of it all? 

    I mean a lot of corporate structures really don't have a point and this exodus because of the virus is really making many people think why they blindly accept those arrangements.
    Regardless I just feel that for the purpose of an art test, can be less paranoid.
    Its like how I and many others used to watermark our work when we posted our initial work a long long time ago.

    It didn't matter for shit, I mean maybe if I signed it and found fame it might sell for millions like  Uderzo's early Asterix illustrations.

  • pior
    Online / Send Message
    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Easy : just make a contract and get it signed by both parties. Problem solved.
  • Maned_Wolf
    Offline / Send Message
    Maned_Wolf polycounter lvl 3
    Well I got an email this morning and they turned me down. Again. I'm asking them for feedback (of course they never tell you why) but I suspect they won't bother. 
  • Alex_J
    Offline / Send Message
    Alex_J grand marshal polycounter
    you can ask for a portfolio review here. plenty of professional artist can probably identify shortcomings. doesn't mean it's same reason this employer turned you down, but that's water under bridge
  • Maned_Wolf
    Offline / Send Message
    Maned_Wolf polycounter lvl 3
    you can ask for a portfolio review here. plenty of professional artist can probably identify shortcomings. doesn't mean it's same reason this employer turned you down, but that's water under bridge
    Sorry for the late reply. Where exactly can I ask for portfolio review?
  • Alex_J
    Offline / Send Message
    Alex_J grand marshal polycounter
    poke around the site a bit. you'll see
Sign In or Register to comment.