How do i model this ?

Dawsky

Hi everyone,

so i modeled the Walther P38.

In my mind, i wanted to use substance painter to add the normal detail to the grip, so i did.

I loaded this picture into Photoshop and created a b/w mask. As i used this image for modeling, it fit just fine when aplied in SP.
The issue i had, was the normal detail created in Painter using masks isn't always that great compared to actual highpoly baked normals.

Also it helps with edge detection in painter when baked into the normal map. I know there is a way to detect edges (for edge wear etc) within painter, for unbaked normal information but it's a cheesy workaround and does not yield perfect results imo.

Anyways.
I am now looking into actually modeling these 'lines indents' into the highpoly so i will bake into the normal map.
But here is the issue.
I could model these my hand (using maya) but that takes a ton of time just to cleanup all the resulting shading issues.
It's a curved surface, these lines extend more or less all the way to the grip on the other side.

I tried sculpting, tho my limited zbrush knowledge didn't help, as i use zbrush mainly to devide and polish hard surfaces.
Yes, i can sculpt straight lines, tho once i have to turn the camera, all the straightness is gone.
I've tried using curve brushes but really, they aren't great, or at least i dont know how to use them properly.
I tried using the b/w mask in zbrush to kind of stamp in the height information but that didn't really work out.

i mean, there has to be a better way than actually modeling all these lines by hand in maya/max right?
Just can't get my head around it.
 

btw, yes i know there is a small discrepancy between the grip in the picture and the model, it's by choice tho.

Yes, i could just go the the mask/SP approach and for actual game dev with a deadline i'd maybe go that way, as it's fast and easy.
But thats not the point here.
I am however looking for a reliably way to model this kind of detail, in a way that can be reproduced for other models aswell, other than having to go and make all these extrusions by hand, leaving a topology mess. Also booleans aren't a real option as it's, as mentioned a curved surface, so setting up booleans would take a lot of time, leaving a topology mess aswell.

Axcel

Zbrush?

Going back to SP, I believe you can get curvature map from normals details made in SP. 

Dawsky

Axcel said:

Zbrush?

Going back to SP, I believe you can get curvature map from normals details made in SP. 

Thanks, tho it seems, you didnt read my post,..

Kanni3d

Look into floaters, as you mentioned you don't want to model each groove and solve its topology shading errors.  If you want to give zbrush another shot, try using masks instead of sculpting right away. mask in the grooves, blur and invert when the selections look good, and use a soft brush or a deformation modifier like inflate to get the desired grooves.

Alex_J

It's a repeating pattern, so seems like prime candidate for boolean.

Make one long thin cylinder or whatever the correct shape is. Looks like it conforms to the curve of the handle, so I would start by making the pistol grip "live" (enable surface snapping), then you can just draw quad strip along it. Now you have the perfect curvature fitting like a glove. Then extrude the quad strip so it has a bit of depth.

Duplicate and repeat.

Combine into an object.

In zbrush, you got live boolean so you can move your pattern into the correct position to make its cut with realtime feedback. Should be relatively easy.

It's only for the high poly to bake from, so you can just subdivide the gun model as high as you need. If you are getting shading issues just make sure the pistol grip has even quad topology so it's primed for subdivision and booleans.

The principle here is to create it the same way it's created in real life. You are probably overthinking it because you are trying to get your subdivision model from the game model. It will be easier if you have them be two separate things. Only tackle one task at a time. A lot of times, and this is true in many professions, you'll end up wasting twice the amount of time trying to think a clever way to do the work versus just doing it the dumb simple way.

An example: This took 4 minutes. You only need to make one row. Then duplicate. Then use "smooth" on the quad draw tool and they snap into place along the surface. From there you just extrude and adjust the shape and you've got a perfect boolean. All done it may take an hour max. If it takes much longer than that then you need the training to get faster with the tools anyway.

DavidCruz

Kanni3d said:

Look into floaters, as you mentioned you don't want to model each groove and solve its topology shading errors.  If you want to give zbrush another shot, try using masks instead of sculpting right away. mask in the grooves, blur and invert when the selections look good, and use a soft brush or a deformation modifier like inflate to get the desired grooves.

^If you go his route, add in 1st to make a layer create a morph target and use the erase ability if you run into issues, using the morph brush over the lines you created will erase any errors in your designing, i can see a stamp being used in mirror mode to make this somewhat easy.  Go with your/the best option you like, report back?

Ghogiel

I second similar to what Alex says. ie You could model them and just not solve the geometry by hand.

Make some quad draw strips floating where the grooves are on the model. Extrude those into the surface a bit. Bring everything into ZB, dynamesh, boolean and get polygroups. do all the polishing you want. Theres a load of different ways to do that similar workflow.

Dawsky

Thanks for all your answers. I'll give zbrush another go and report back once i did. Could take a few days tho, as its just a side project i do in my spare time.

Dawsky

So after trying back and forth, i went back to my initial approach and stamped it onto the grip.

This is what it looks like now. 
Keep in mind tho, height range of wear,roughness values, textures in general are still very much a work in progress,


Regarding the grips stamped height tho,
I think its ok, it could be better for sure but this took me maybe 15 minutes to set up.
Actually modeling these lines and tweaking highpoly or floater so edges would have the right sharpness etc takes considerably longer and i dont know if its worth the effort at this point.

Thanks for all your ideas.

Kanni3d

Can definitely be a bit more softer. After stamping, add a blur filter to that layer and play with really low values to soften out the harsh stamped edges.