XboxSX and PS5

oglu

Specs are looking fine but all the good Games are in the PS camp.
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/02/24/what-you-can-expect-next-generation-gaming/?ocid=Platform_soc_omc_xbo_tw_Video_lrn_2.24.1

NikhilR

So basically a high end pc in a box?

Udjani

Hey man, whats your pc specs? 

Teraflops! 

oglu

A Geforce 2080 Ti does come close to 14 TFlops.
And the new 3080 ti coming later this year will be even faster.

thomasp

A little hard to imagine for me that a system like that is going to come in at the usual console price point. Assuming they are not planning to charge a lot more for the hardware, can we perhaps assume that content will shoot up in price across the board to compensate?

oglu

Agreed thats strange. Also those ultra fast SSDs arnt cheap.
But i fear its needed if they want to fire up the Graphics on a 8k TV.
You need a lot of more pore for the same image.

thomasp

I wonder if this is just the top of the line model then selling at a much higher price than regular consoles. I seem to recall they were planning different tiers for their console, so perhaps the mortal tier which games might actually target as a baseline will turn out a good deal weaker. There must be a catch here - 899 price point or pricey mandatory paid-for online service required or ... ? 

I would not expect anything better than a Geforce 2060 in a 400-ish console but perhaps my pricing meter is way way off thanks to Nvidia. I'm currently looking at purchasing an RTX 2080 Ti to significantly boost work and all I can say is 'ouch' looking at their prices!

Teraflops per dollar aside a console in my mind is still a relatively quiet device that is not supposed to rack up an impressive power bill. Placed in the kids' room and all that. Or am I totally out of touch?

PolyHertz

thomasp said:

a console in my mind is still a relatively quiet device that is not supposed to rack up an impressive power bill. Placed in the kids' room and all that. Or am I totally out of touch?

Only nintendo still make low powered consoles. Starting back in the 360/PS3 generation Sony/MS consoles all use between 3-5x the wattage compared to Nintendo consoles in the same generation.

oglu

PS5 reveal
https://youtu.be/ph8LyNIT9sg

oglu

http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/03/guide_ps5_vs_xbox_series_x_-_tech_specs_comparison

rollin

I would guess the hardware is heavily subsidized as they probably first want to draw you into their whole system and then the system will come with more options to monetize over the whole live circle of the hardware. 

gnoop

Wow. I thought it's all going to be cloud from now on

ZacD

-AMD's Ryzen 7 2700 $135 ($200 now, but they've dropped to $135 on sale)
-RTX 2080 $620 (that's what the Gears 5 demo suggested for PC equivalent hardware performance) 
-1TB NVME SSDs are $130 (Console's are likely higher performance, but they will get bulk discounts)
+ extra ram ($50?), PSU ($30), Bluray drive ($50), case ($30)

We're talking about $1,100 worth of PC hardware, likely in $500 - $600 consoles. 

PolyHertz

Yep these new consoles are looking like a serious bargain compared to similarly speced PCs. The custom tech for removing NVMe bottlenecks also means the PS5 will probably be significantly faster at loading games then even very high end PCs. I'm also curious to see what all this new audio tech will mean for game design (will different materials start having their own individual sound profiles? Surfaces such as marble and wood reflect sounds in very different ways after all).

That said, I am a bit disappointed that the rumors of full backwards compatibility for PS1/PS2/PS3 games, like what MS has for their old consoles, seem to have been wrong.

sacboi

yeah, only Ps4 games last I checked. Still have my Ps1, bought back in 1996 would've been great to play mech warrior 2,on it

rollin

So how high are the chances we can simply turn them into xbox-windows or ps-windows computers? Because nowadays a console makes no sense to me. Except maybe something like the switch which has at least some kind of unique form factor 

oglu

For xbox its the case right now. Microsoft is releasing the same games for win10.
Just grab a xbox controller and you are up and running.
https://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/xbox-play-anywhere

Edit: i saw you would like to install win10 on an xbox. I dont think thats so easy they are really unique hardware.

thomasp

rollin said:

So how high are the chances we can simply turn them into xbox-windows or ps-windows computers? Because nowadays a console makes no sense to me. Except maybe something like the switch which has at least some kind of unique form factor 

Pretty sure the answer to that is ...zero! Consoles are all about DRM after all.

Besides - after a few RROD's and YLOD's I've encountered as well as the strangely bendy plastic casing of my PS4 Pro I think they are just the cheapest POS hardware imaginable. Definitely not built like a half-decent PC.

But I do see the point for playing games (over a PC). I'd absolutely not want to wrestle with intrusive installs and copy protection schemes on Windows. Also no performance puzzle to get the most out of shadow resolution and whatnot before performance goes south. That plus the seamless way controllers work and you don't get coil whine in your audio unlike my GPUs which all have been buzzing like a swarm of flies.

haiddasalami

PolyHertz said:

That said, I am a bit disappointed that the rumors of full backwards compatibility for PS1/PS2/PS3 games, like what MS has for their old consoles, seem to have been wrong.

Assume thats what they will be using PS Now for. Havent tried it though since I remember looking through the PS2 list and it was quite small though this was a while ago

Blaizer

The new Xbox is like an actual PC, but it looks like something much better (a computer with the same specs is very expensive). Add a gaming mouse with its keyboard, and Windows 10, and we'll have the best selling machine in the world.

Do you imagine using Office, photoshop, painter, clip studio, Zbrush, or Blender with a Xbox Series X? It would be great, and well, i know it already, it's just a dream. But like too many of you, i use a Xbox with my PC monitor, and the Xbox controller with my PC.

Like Rollin said, a console makes no sense nowadays. And more taking into consideration that with Microsoft we have almost all latest games with the label: "Xbox Play Anywhere". You buy a physical xbox copy for example (an empty DVD box with a serial you need to activate online), and you can play the Windows/PC version aswell. so DRM?

Too many games are now free to play, and the trend is to make all online, or account binded with a digital key we previosly bought. Just look the new Call of Duty Battle Royale, or Genshin Impact. Or the android videogame market, paid games are just a few compared to free games with its accounts.

Times are changing, we have porwerful computers on our hands, and sooner or later, all will be a computer/device connected to the internet.

notman

I think those of you stating that consoles make no sense, are only thinking of your own scenario, and not the way other people play games. Sure, many of us have PCs, that we can use for gaming, but there are still MANY people who don't have gaming capably PCs, nor the money to buy one. As already mentioned, this gets them higher PC specs, and a much more achievable price.

Not to mention, there are still a lot of gamers who use a TV in their living room. They want a small/unobtrusive machine, to sit under the TV. Hell, parents will still get their kids consoles, without buying them an expensive PC. 

I get the point though, that the lines are starting to blur, especially with MS giving PC access to many of their console games. Especially now that cross platform is starting to take off.

another caveman

Mostly curious as of PS5 VR.

milleymajlak

Quite curios for PS5 VR set for half life alyx. I would prefer PC over PS5 any given day. 

oglu

Hmmm the only interesting game for me was Kena.
https://youtu.be/OxzWlIbnp3U

thomasp

Flicking through the stream looks like they showed enough variety of games. A lot of it of course very familiar looking to those who have been around for a few console releases. Looks like it will be another slow start.

The sheer size of that thing is surprising. Also the overall look of it. Very - uh... striking.

Call me when the slim version comes out. Might just manage to get through my backlog by then.

Justo

Kena was very nice, yeah. Little Devil Inside also caught my eye a lot, it has come a long way since the first footage they showed. I hope all they showed will actually be in the game, and wasn't prettified only for this trailer. The same goes for Ratchet and Clank, though I am too suspicious to believe the final game will actually have the setpiece they opened the game with (characters teleporting through various realms pretty quickly) actually loading, moving and looking as good as that that. I hope I'm wrong though, of course! All of these looked fantastic.

Same goes for Horizon 2. I don't doubt the Guerilla peoples will make the game look amazing, but everything in this trailer felt too animated to be actual final gameplay. Until I see a long gameplay sequence, though really the final say will only come with the final game release, it's hard to say what's precomputed or not these days with some high-end stuff (and that's a good thing I suppose). 

PolyHertz

Games looked good, console design itself though not so much (placement of the disc drive appears to have been an afterthought). The Ratchet & Clank teleporting scenes were very impressive, great way to showcase the new SSD and I/O tech.

notman

I actually really like the way the PS5 looks. The drive didn't strike me as tacked on, and to be honest. The placement makes sense, considering they are offering the digital only version. The center is the power supply/mobo, and then gets a bigger booty, for the optical drive.

In the end, I honestly don't care what either system looks like, since it sits under my desk anyway. As long as it isn't the size of a mini-fridge (so it can remain under my desk). I know for some people, it's on display more, and they don't want something hideous sitting next to the TV. I will say, as unimaginative as I think the XBox design is, I do feel it would blend into the background better.

ZacD

Kinda surprised Sony went with a digital edition before Microsoft. There technically could be a digital only Xbox Series X coming soon, but with the shown design of the Series X and the tear downs they've shown, there would be no space/size savings from removing a disk drive. The height and width are based around the 130mm fan and the length is based on the mainboard length. 

 I really loved the Ratchet & Clank trailer as a tech demo showing the advantages of having an SSD, and hope we see more games take advantage of it. Obvious examples being a space to planet surface transition, flying or driving around at high speeds with tons of asset variety and no pop-in, etc.

thomasp

ZacD said:

Kinda surprised Sony went with a digital edition before Microsoft.

Maybe simply to be able to offer a lower cost version of the console because the price for the disc version is expected to be a bit of a shocker for Covid-stressed parents shopping around Christmas?

Dihemi

thomasp said:

Maybe simply to be able to offer a lower cost version of the console because the price for the disc version is expected to be a bit of a shocker for Covid-stressed parents shopping around Christmas?

I think that decision was made way before Covid-19 hit the headlines though, it generally takes a very long time from designing hardware to production itself.

Likely be an interesting console generation, probably somewhat like the PS3/360/WII era; Sony might be underestimating overestimating people's willingness to buy at a higher price range (like the PS3's 599$ controversy). Might also be an equal long generation; 2008 recession stagnated the markets and PS3/360 had something of a 7 year run? I could see this generation be something similar.

EDIT: I stand corrected; most console cycles clock around 6 years or so. PS4/XOne also at 7. So probably no tangible link with 2008 recession.

thomasp

Yeah I think you are on to something. XBX also reported to have a noticeably beefier GPU - and the advantage of the custom SSD: who knows if that can be properly utilized by 3rd parties developing multi platform games. Could indeed be more of a level playing field again this time around.

icegodofhungary

The cheaper price is probably accomplished by data collection. They collect your behavior when using their hardware, they sell the data at a premium. This lets them offset the hardware costs. Same thing has been happening with smart TVs. Having a data box in people's homes is valuable. I don't mean that in a conspiracy 1984 way. I don't think they'll record you with cameras and hidden mics. But having huge amounts of data on what games people play, how long they play them, are people using them to stream, when are they online, etc is big for the gaming market. I'm curious if social media is giving them a little kickback too for seamless social media integration. I haven't heard anything about social media features. 

PolyHertz

icegodofhungary said:

The cheaper price is probably accomplished by data collection. They collect your behavior when using their hardware, they sell the data at a premium...I don't think they'll record you with cameras and hidden mics.

Well they do have mics built into all the controllers now, so lets hope they don't pull an Amazon, Samsung, Microsoft. Apple, Google, etc.

sacboi

Hmm, frankly the mind boggles at the thought of a data set covertly captured, for example by a PS5 DualSense inadvertently left connected or the typical potty-mouthed strewn CoD multiplayer frag fest would comprise of, in terms commercializing user behavior : / 

poopipe

Dihemi said:

thomasp said:

Maybe simply to be able to offer a lower cost version of the console because the price for the disc version is expected to be a bit of a shocker for Covid-stressed parents shopping around Christmas?

I think that decision was made way before Covid-19 hit the headlines though, it generally takes a very long time from designing hardware to production itself.

Likely be an interesting console generation, probably somewhat like the PS3/360/WII era; Sony might be underestimating overestimating people's willingness to buy at a higher price range (like the PS3's 599$ controversy). Might also be an equal long generation; 2008 recession stagnated the markets and PS3/360 had something of a 7 year run? I could see this generation be something similar.

Ps4 had a 7 year run as well, you can be pretty confident that it's not an accident.
It takes a long time to develop the hardware which then needs to be in the hands of developers (in varying stages of completion) for at least a year or two before launch. 
 7 years is also enough time for most studios to get 2 or 3 games out of the door before tooling up for the next generation 

Dihemi

poopipe said:

Ps4 had a 7 year run as well

Eh. Time's going fast. Didn't even realise. I'm checking past generations and most seem indeed to clock around 6 years give or take. PS3/360/Wii only being marginally longer then previous generations. So in retrospect it probably didn't have a lot to do with the recession I guess? (Remember reading an article of some sort linking the 2008 recession to "longer" console cycles. That's were I got the Idea.) I stand corrected regardless.