WIP - MK18

Delthor

Hi everyone!
Today I began my first weapon modeling experience that follows a AAA pipeline and requirements. I also decided that I'll be sharing all the progress I make through here, to get feedback. The weapon I'll be modeling is Daniel Defense's MK18 rifle, with ACME Machine HK Style Flip-Up Sights, a Trijicon MRO® 1x25 Red Dot Sight and a Troy Modular Combat Grip.
Today I spent less than an hour gathering reference in PureRef and here's what I got so far:

Thanks for reading this!

Delthor

And the bottom ones:

Delthor

Finished the sights today. They're not completely accurate, but I think they will do just fine. Might come back to them later.

Phoenix995

Good start!
If im allowed to give you one piece of advice its this: create a complete Blockout first! Where every piece fits into each other, not just a bunch of cubes or something.. a nice Blockout, that pretty much resembles the finished lowpoly model, of course not as polished etc.
it will help you immensely! because if you find out now for example that the sights a too narrow or to big or whatever, you will have to change the highpoly...

Delthor

Hey @Phoenix995! Thanks for your advice. I'll try to put a rough blockout together

Phoenix995

Sounds good! im hyped to see how this one will turn out!

Phoenix995

http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Normal_Map_Modeling#Edge_Thickness
Quick tip: Look at how Thick the edge are on this example. Just a small helper for when you start modelling the highpoly

Delthor

Yeah I try to get the bevels as wide as I can without getting any weird overlapping. I'm not using subdivision for all the parts, some of them I just chamfer because otherwise I'd have to get all quads, and that'd take time. Thanks for the tip, though.

Delthor

Almost finished the barrel/handguard today. I managed to mess up some things on the inside and front parts, but other than that I like how it is at the moment. I still have to add some screws to the side rails and then I'll start with the actual barrel, muzzle and maybe some silencer/suppressor. 

Delthor

Pretty much done:

Delthor

Some more progress. Tell me if you prefer this material or the orange one:

Phoenix995

Looking good!!!

Delthor

Today I made the upper part of the receiver, the bolt, dust cover, some minor things and fixes, and also re-did the muzzle. I still need to make some modeling to the back, top part of the receiver so that the handle can go inside. Feedback is appreciated

Delthor

And BTW thanks @Phoenix995

Delthor

Started with the charging handle. Also here's how the sights look unfolded

Delthor

Delthor

MRO sight done. As with everything, might tweak some things in the future. Feedback is welcome as always.

teodar23

looks good but can you post some wires?

the rails should have 45* angles and maybe increase the polycount on the scope

Delthor

Already increased the polycount on the scope. I just left my computer but I'll send the wireframes as soon as I can. When you see them keep in mind I'm using a bevel/chamfer modifier workflow so it has lots of ngons and Tris because it's not intended for subdivision. Thanks for your feedback btw @teodar23

Delthor

Here are a few wireframes:

teodar23

nice and clean

Delthor

Thank you

fdfxd2

You're using the bevel shader instead of physically bevelling the geometry, aren't you?

Might be an amazing time saving trick or a thorn on your side later on, but don't worry about it. For now I think your main priority should be blocking out the entire gun & attachments first. To make sure all the proportions are correct before you detail anything.

Delthor

@fdfxd2 I'm using bevel modifiers for some parts instead of subdivision modifiers for everything so that I don't need clean, all-quads topology.
Today I did the lower part of the receiver and some small things like the trigger or the mag release. As always, feedback is welcome.

teodar23

you need to fix some normal/smoothing issues here and there and add some beveling to the scope where the cylindrical shapes intersect:

Keep at it!

Delthor

Thanks @teodar23 . Already fixed those.

Delthor

Some small progress today. Getting closer to finishing the main modeling part. Then comes polishing. As always feedback is appreciated, but please don't tell me to have wider edges because my edges are at the most width that I can get with this workflow (bevel modifier workflow)

Zi0

Are you going for a mid poly model or is this the high poly? The proportions of the dust cover look off, the two holes look too deep for something that is stamped steel. The parts that teodar23 mentioned would look better if they would be part of the receiver instead of pushed in to the model.

Delthor

@Zi0 this is the high poly. I already fixed the parts that teodar23 pointed out by performing a union operation with the receiver. Also, what two holes are you talking about?
This is the progress from today, I ended up doing a different grip and mag than I planned but it turned out OK. I also did some small fixes. The only part that's actually left is the stock. Later I'll start to play around with UV unwrapping and normal map baking. The best part of the workflow I'm using is that I can totally skip the retopology part, I just have to remove the bevel modifiers to get a low poly version. Feedback is welcome, but don't tell me to bevel the edges more because I can't please. Cheers.

teodar23

Looking good, man!
I think Zi0 is refering to the inward parts in the dust cover.
I thought that you were doing beveled edges to shortcut the whole bake part of the process but okay.
This should work just as well i guess...

Delthor

Ok thanks for the feedback. I'm just trying out the workflow so we'll see if it works well or not @teodar23

Zi0

I think Zi0 is refering to the inward parts in the dust cover.

Yes thats what I meant, sorry for not being clear. the dust cover doesn't look like stamped steel but CNC machined steel.

Delthor

Oh ok thanks a lot for pointing that out. I'll try to fix it ASAP

Jedairusz

I'm afraid, that some edges are to sharp for nice bake. For example here (red):

You need also more segments for rounded elements, because some problems are visible (green)

If you want define better materials during modelling you can add softer bevels for plastic and sharper for metals. It will look more natural.

Delthor

Alright guys, I'm happy to announce that I've finished the modeling part. Now it's time to do all the UV unwrapping and the normal map baking, which when we'll see if you can still get good results with this workflow. Here's the final high poly:

Delthor

Trying out some color combinations...

Zi0

Before you go into baking take a quick look at your proportions, the receiver and pistol grip should be a bit wider

Delthor

Too late, but l think it'll be fine. Thanks anyways @Zi0

Phoenix995

How is your weapon coming along?

Delthor

Hey man. Thanks for your interest. My country is completely locked down because of the virus, so I left this project on hold because it's not my main priority. Don't know when I'll resume it. There is not much left to do, just baking and texturing. Stay tuned

Phoenix995

ah nice...
yea my country as well... homeoffice it is than -.-

tynew

Delthor said:

As always feedback is appreciated, but please don't tell me to have wider edges because my edges are at the most width that I can get with this workflow (bevel modifier workflow)

Your edges are way too sharp for an fps weapon. With the bevel shader can you independently change bevel amounts on different meshes? If it's restricting you to uniform amounts then the bevel shader is very limiting. They need to be at least double thickness and get even thicker the further they are away from the fps camera. They won't read well and have aliasing otherwise..

Also even though you're using the bevel shader a lot of your geo is actually lacking some proper chamfering on edges that are much rounder on the irl weapon. Don't be afraid to commit to a hard chamfer on the edges of some things that require it, like the magazine well. 

There is also some geo that gets no beveling from the shader whatsoever, and from your wires it looks like you just have intersecting meshes, not actually together as geo. Maybe boolean them together and the bevels will work on them?

Spunky

Delthor said:

Too late, but l think it'll be fine. Thanks anyways @Zi0

This could of been avoided if you took the advice to block out your model first. Because you decided to jump straight into high poly, now its going to be a major pain in the ass to fix and proportion issues. Another reason a block out is a good idea is because in AAA workflow (which you stated you wanted to follow) you need to have a proportionally accurate model to pass off to the animator asap. Once the animator has that block out, you can work out any issues and then you both move on with your jobs (he beings animation using the blockout while you continue onto high poly work)

Delthor

Zi0 said:

Before you go into baking take a quick look at your proportions, the receiver and pistol grip should be a bit wider

Now I look at it again, I think it's just the perspective that's different.

Delthor

Spunky said:

Delthor said:

Too late, but l think it'll be fine. Thanks anyways @Zi0

This could of been avoided if you took the advice to block out your model first. Because you decided to jump straight into high poly, now its going to be a major pain in the ass to fix and proportion issues. Another reason a block out is a good idea is because in AAA workflow (which you stated you wanted to follow) you need to have a proportionally accurate model to pass off to the animator asap. Once the animator has that block out, you can work out any issues and then you both move on with your jobs (he beings animation using the blockout while you continue onto high poly work)

Yeah, thanks for the feedback. I was just practicing and trying out the Bevel Modifier workflow. Next time I'll probably just do normal quad topology with the block out and all of that. Baking is giving me really weird artifacts now, so I think I'll just dump the project. It's sad because I thought I had found a slightly faster workflow.

Delthor

Baked onto the low poly and put on some base materials. That exposed all these shading artifacts that I'll now have to fix. Most of them are caused by UV unwrapping, so I'll try to fix some of that. Also, I think edges look beveled enough from afar, so the workflow isn't as ineffective as it seemed.

Delthor

In the low poly or on the high poly? @JoshuaG

teodar23

Your HP seems ok, the problem comes from smoothing groups on your LP. Theres a thread on this forum somewhere that details how to properly set up your smoothing groups according to your UVs. Can you post some wireframes for the LP? What are you using for baking?

rollin

Not sure but also check your triangulation
Edit: more precise: make sure the triangulation of the lowpoly stays the same between baking app and viewing app

Delthor

Ok. Thanks, guys. I'm using Substance Painter for baking and Blender for modeling and unwrapping. The low poly topology is a mess, so it might be caused by that. I'll try to make all faces planar and unwrap everything again.

Tiggis

Delthor said:

Ok. Thanks, guys. I'm using Substance Painter for baking and Blender for modeling and unwrapping. The low poly topology is a mess, so it might be caused by that. I'll try to make all faces planar and unwrap everything again.

Have you setup your smoothing groups/sharp edges in Blender? Because that is one of the reason why you see these gradient effect on your surface. You should also get addons like TexTools, UV Toolkit or get both, so you can use UV smoothing from UV island. You also got jaggy edges, look over your uvs and try to keep your uv edges straight.