[FINISHED] Wilfred - Male Character Progress Thread

UchiLT

Hello everyone! I'm writing this thread so I can get feedback from the community with my current model.
I had in mind to create a bulky man from the 1940/1950's in the style of Dishonored. I've been researching some references:

-Looking a lot to Arkane ArtStation projects
-Cedric Peyravernay ArtStation concepts
-THIS image as reference to the clothes he will wear (Circus Painter in ArtStation)

And this is how my model looks currently ( I think I'm done with Dynamesh stage, I'll merge everything and then Zremesh and subdivide)
In general I saw that Dishonored models have little eyes instead of normal proportion and they are slightly more spread than average.
For body anatomy I think Dishonored style goes pretty realistic most of the time, but realized they have bigger hands ( I think I have to make his hands bigger)

Thanks in advance for all the C&C and I'll try to update the thread regularly

UchiLT

Made another iteration to adjust the proportion to the 8 heads standard and made bigger hands ( not worrying extremely for leg muscles since they will be totally covered)

UchiLT

Made pants base in Marvelous, I'll have to modify them in ZBrush. Dishonored models have less folds and harder. Next I'm going to make a tank top so I have clothes in place. I still have to detail the whole body and face

Alex_J

Regarding design, I'd look up bodybuilders from the era. You'll find a different musculature in general. Most the popular lifts of the day weren't anything to do with pecs, so in a sense your guy nude seems out of era.

I think lats are too prominent. And lower back area should be softened out. Only the most ripped athletes can you see distinction between lats and lower back erectors.

I'd also consider the guys body fat composition overall. A guy this stocky seems like should have higher fat content. But yours must be completely shredded based on muscles we can clearly identify.

One of the character artist from that game has a really good value mentorship program on discord and patreon. Google Georgian avasilcutei. If you really want to nail the style he's just the guy you'd want to learn from.

Hope this helps! All my critique about design mostly, but I think you've done excellent job technically so far.

UchiLT

Alex Javor said:

Regarding design, I'd look up bodybuilders from the era. You'll find a different musculature in general. Most the popular lifts of the day weren't anything to do with pecs, so in a sense your guy nude seems out of era.

I think lats are too prominent. And lower back area should be softened out. Only the most ripped athletes can you see distinction between lats and lower back erectors.

I'd also consider the guys body fat composition overall. A guy this stocky seems like should have higher fat content. But yours must be completely shredded based on muscles we can clearly identify.

One of the character artist from that game has a really good value mentorship program on discord and patreon. Google Georgian avasilcutei. If you really want to nail the style he's just the guy you'd want to learn from.

Hope this helps! All my critique about design mostly, but I think you've done excellent job technically so far.

Thanks for the comment! Yeah you are right on the design critics. For sure I'll add more fat on top of his muscles because he looks more defined that he should. Once I get the clothing in place I'll make an iteration on the muscles that can be seen. I already googled Georgian Avasilcutei , he has some interesting stuff!

UchiLT

So I went ahead and placed pants and tank top in place and tweaked a bit MD results. I still have to change the back of the pants and refine folds . I have to add the strapes and shoes to the model. Also add some fat to muscles.

Concerning his face, I added a little bit of detail and expresion but not too much, since the heavy part I want to do it at the end and without symmetry. I'm not sure if I should go and make the hair to see the overall look.

ScopeDragon

Make sure that the skin around the eye naturally hugs it and folds with reason. Study older peoples faces for this one. Its VERY easy to under stand after you just look.Go to Sketchfab and check out some of these face scans https://sketchfab.com/search?q=face+scan+&sort_by=-pertinence&type=models. And make sure the eyelids round with the eyes curvature. The basic structure of the socket from the profile should have the shape in the image below with the upper lid protruding further out than the lower lid.  Make sure you are using the best eye you can find or make. Trust me man it makes a difference.

UchiLT

ScopeDragon said:

Make sure that the skin around the eye naturally hugs it and folds with reason. Study older peoples faces for this one. Its VERY easy to under stand after you just look.Go to Sketchfab and check out some of these face scans https://sketchfab.com/search?q=face+scan+&sort_by=-pertinence&type=models. And make sure the eyelids round with the eyes curvature. The basic structure of the socket from the profile should have the shape in the image below with the upper lid protruding further out than the lower lid.  Make sure you are using the best eye you can find or make. Trust me man it makes a difference.

 I'm quite amateur with anatomy stuff and I was sure I did miss something (and probably there are more fails). I'll make that change in the next iteration! Thanks for the comment!

UchiLT

Started to block in the hair and fixed eyes 

UchiLT

Last iteration before going to bed today. I wasnt happy with the face because it hadn't that Dishonored feeling on it. He also got a little bit older  . I think I'm getting closer to the style im looking for

UchiLT

Just modeled his shoes. Based on Chukka / Desert boots from 1950

UchiLT

Added some asymmetry to his face and marked details a bit. Still a lot of detail to be done

ScopeDragon

Not bad But Make the facial structure of the upper skull and forehead/brow more believable. Make sure that even though its stylized a scull is defined and can fit in that characters anatomy.

Like so:

UchiLT

I've not been working much lately because of personal stuff and because Pokemon came out... but that's another story 

More face progress!

UchiLT

Little OFF TOPIC, but I participated in a Spanish Game Jam the last weekend and spent my time on it so couldn't make much progress on this guy
In case you want to have a look: https://jaumander.itch.io/donde-esta-la-gracia

Added suspenders and started to rework clothes, but I wanted to share his overall look with a quick compo in Photoshop and Zbrush. I think he already looks similar to what I wanted and I'm pretty happy! 

UchiLT

Need opinions on folds since I don't really understand how they work and even after copying a refference I don't see them appealing or correct. It's supposed to be a little bit loose tank top. Thanks in advance!

UchiLT

Went back to Marvelous since I wasn't able to sculpt them  . Made a new tank top from scratch and I have to make folds a little bit sharper to match the style I'm aiming for! 

UchiLT

I was about to call the highpoly almost done and start adding pores and skin imperfections when I realized his hair style didn't fit with him. I made his hair more stylized than I wanted (back view its similar to Fortnite) and I'm super blocked. Cant figure out how to make decent hair. I want something similar to Dishonored/Prey but their Artstation projects doesn't show how their back is modeled. Any of you knows a good tutorial video I can watch? Thanks! 

UchiLT

Remade the hair and I think its a little bit better now. I have to polish it, define hair strands, and mke it a lil'bit softer and improve hair intersections with head

oreoorbitz

Looking good.

Suggestions :
The labial nasal fold is bumpy here and there, looks unnatural.

In general, there are some bumpy areas here and there that hurts the feel of the face. If your working from a low poly, go down to the lowest division,  and remove the bumpyness each step up.

You have some asymmetry going on with the right eye bag, which is good to strive for, but the right eye bag is lower then the left and is making the right cheek look smaller, that sort of bone asymmetry can make a face look odd. 

A good place to add asymmetry is the eyebrows, as men rarely groom their brows and they tend to have a good amount of asymmetry. 

UchiLT

I've been so focused lately on hair that I forgot to fix those bumps that you mentioned. I realized they were there before but I said yeah I'll fix that later...until now haha. I never worried about one eye bag being lower than the other, but now that you say it, it's true that it makes that cheekbone look smaller. Thanks for the feedback!

UchiLT

After some time, with several projects inbetween, I decided to come back to this guy. Went back a few steps on his face and I will redo hair once again (planning on using this projects to learn hair cards finally) 

UchiLT

I worked on pants, and the more I do it the more I know I hate clothing haha. Also tweaked face and hair a bit

UchiLT

Probably last iteration before going to retopology, not 100% sure about his right leg but I feel like I gotta move on...

UchiLT

Retopology 75% done! I wanna get to the texturing but Uvs come first! 

UchiLT

I've been working on a prop for him before texturing and doing haircards. I would like some feedback on the current lighting for this shot. I will make more renders with white light and more angles to show the revolver, but wanted to have 1 more cinematic/dramatic.

Thanks in advance!

UchiLT

Which one might be better? Idk

Also doing a more "white light-show all" render

UchiLT

I've just finished the revolver project, now I have to continue with the character!

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/qQ6q0a

UchiLT

Some baking artifacts need to be fixed but its a good start

UchiLT

First skin pass, gonna move to clothes now to have a general look!

UchiLT

More texturing process!

UchiLT

More progress on this guy!

UchiLT

Finally got time again to add more details to this piece. Probably I'm going to leave the "base texture" like this. Now I'll have to add handpaint strokes to get the desired look!

UchiLT

Came back to it. I'm preparing a basic light set up for him on Marmoset and I will start working on hair cards... Wish me luck! 

UchiLT

Some progress on this guy's hair 

UchiLT

More updates on this guy! Made a different lighting set up and went back with hair. Im currently working on a hair scalp for short hairs transition  

Vertrucio

The cloth isn't looking as polished as the rest of the character and I feel that with how stylized and pushed you've made the face, the cloth could get a similar level of push on those folds. Maybe give it a little if the leyendecker treatment.

UchiLT

Vertrucio said:

The cloth isn't looking as polished as the rest of the character and I feel that with how stylized and pushed you've made the face, the cloth could get a similar level of push on those folds. Maybe give it a little if the leyendecker treatment.

Thanks for your feedback Vertrucio!
I'm not worried about pants since I think they are just lacking a slightly better lighting. But you are right on the tank top. It is looking a little bit flat and you cant notice form the render the little details I put in it. Maybe I have to push the roughness on the tanktop or aim for some kind of contrast

UchiLT

Still experimenting with lighting setups, but soon its going to be time for posing 

HarlequinWerewolf

I think you could push the textures of the clothing a bit more - the tank top in particular doesn't read as cloth, it looks very flat especially sitting against the skin which has lots of nice contrast. 

UchiLT

HarlequinWerewolf said:

I think you could push the textures of the clothing a bit more - the tank top in particular doesn't read as cloth, it looks very flat especially sitting against the skin which has lots of nice contrast. 

What would you suggest? Color and Roughness for reference. 

UchiLT

Enhanced the contrast on color and roughness and also increased the size and intensity of the normal map so its more noticeable. Also added a little bit of fuzz. Hope it reads better now    

UchiLT

Moooving forward! First of all, don't mind leg and pistol area. Need to adjust light a little bit more but its almost done. I wanted to ask you guys if you think the drop shadow from head to shoulder (and both eyes) looks too dark or not. If you can barely see them, its okay because its the purpose but I dont want them to be almost black.

Thanks in advance for feedback! 

zetheros

i dunno about the wrinkles between the deltoids and biceps, I don't think they show up in that area unless the character is really old. The knuckles are bloodied, he's carrying a gun, and there's blood on his shirt. Clearly he's been in a tussle, but he didn't break a sweat, so sweat stains would work well here.

Scuffs on the leather shoes would be nice to see, as well as some dirt stains on the pants. But really I'm just nitpicking now. Cool work

UchiLT

zetheros said:

i dunno about the wrinkles between the deltoids and biceps, I don't think they show up in that area unless the character is really old. The knuckles are bloodied, he's carrying a gun, and there's blood on his shirt. Clearly he's been in a tussle, but he didn't break a sweat, so sweat stains would work well here.

Scuffs on the leather shoes would be nice to see, as well as some dirt stains on the pants. But really I'm just nitpicking now. Cool work

I added a lil'bit of sweat on arms and body. Also a sweat stain on tank top as you suggested. Tanktop definetely looks much better.
The shadow near his right armpit has been bugging me all day.  Does it look strange to you or is it just me?

zetheros

looks like you may need to soften your smoothing groups

UchiLT

zetheros said:

looks like you may need to soften your smoothing groups

Why you say so? Just double checked and they are softened where they need to 

zetheros

It doesn't look like it can be anything other than smoothing groups, that's why lol

The only other reason I can think of is possibly lighting; if you have only a single point light it might do something like this but it looks like you have a multi light setup for your render.

you're also clearly not noob enough to bake lowpoly detail into your normal map or have holes in your geometry, so it can't be either of those

Sometimes, when exporting from Zbrush into FBX format, you might get a warped normal map called "FBX normals". It might be that. Checking mesh integrity might be an option too

UchiLT

After all this time I'm calling Wilfred done! Thanks to everyone who helped me with feedback!  

Artstation link: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/YBReld 

carvuliero

While its still fresh consider moving a few things to improve on silhouette readability and overall look

Alex_J

looks great to me. good job finishing it up