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Does making 3d characters really pays off ?

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  • mustacheman
    yeah, every CEO is overpaid but when you try to get someone to take responsibility in management, all of a sudden ...



  • Alex Javor
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    Alex Javor insane polycounter
    @mustacheman lol. i agree in  pricnciple but itts a question of degree. Is a solid leader worth 50 times as much as vertex pusher nose picker? Yeah. More like 300x more. But not 3000x. That's absurd.

    But you also have to keep in mind, being the leader is a service. If you don't have a mindset of service, you gonna end up being like these big dickheads we keep seeing in the media. Just cause you willing to take the responsibilty doesn't mean "fuck everybody else" I'm special.

    @Biomag , that all makes sense to me. But you are very intelligent person. law degree. You know what you are getting into, who you are, etc. Probably much of the media frenzy comes from people who do not understand what they are getting into. Or worse, they are intentionally deceived and exploited. Isn't this the case of whats happening at epic? They bring young kids with stars in their eyes, push them as far as they will go, then discard them like cattle when they burn out. I mean maybe the workload really isnt that bad and these poor kids are just little weenies, but in any case it looks very suspicious.


  • mustacheman
    Is a solid leader worth 50 times as much as vertex pusher nose picker? Yeah. More like 300x more. But not 3000x. That's absurd.
    nah I think you are right. Just thought it was worth mentioning.
  • Biomag
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    Biomag polycounter
    @Alex Javor  Honestly I've been not follwoing what is happening at Epic, so I can't say what is about. I can only talk about places I've seen or what I've heard from other people. But I will say this - people have to accept that they might not be made for some of th top notch AAA-studios. You couldn't walk into Micheal Jordan's lockerroom and bring just 100%. Some places demand more and burn you out quickly if you are not made for it.

    Again, isn't directed at the Epic thing,since I don't know anything about it. Just talking about people who want to work at certain places and complain that they those places are not what they were dreaming to be because they were actually in it only for the name, not for the work.
  • PixelMasher
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    PixelMasher high dynamic range
    A big part of the article about epic everyone overlooks or forgets is the part about compensation. 

    People are not working crazy hours for just a basic salary. Some are getting 3x their salary in bonuses. Thats a lot more than even overtime  hourly rates pay out. 

    Suddenly that sounds a lot less exploitative. But at the end of the day its on you to have the self awareness if you can work like that, if i wanted to rack up cash for 6 months to a year and go traveling for a year or 2 on that after i would happily do it. But i dont have a wife/kids to support or factor into my calculation. Everyones setup is different, there is no one size fits all, and a lot of the responsibility is on the person looking to get in to a job to do research and make an educated decision for themselves.

    the more accountability you take the happier you will be, even if its technically not “your fault” 

    example: i sign up to a studio and hate it there after 6 months. I havent updated my folio in 2 years and dont have a 6 months savings saftey net. 

    A lot of people would blame the studio for overworking them, and then other studios for not hiring them or the “lack of jobs out there” as the source of their misery. And not having the option to quit because they live paychque to paycheque

    Me, i would blame myself for not doing my research on the studio i joined, not having the basic financial management skills/living above my means to not have a cash safety net and also my own lack of output in not having a portfolio that is good enouh to constantly be getting potential job offers to my inbox as an escape route should i want to eject from a situation i dont like. 

    In reality the blame game  could be somewhere in between them and me, but when i frame it as an accountability issue, it tells me this: if its all my fault, i  actually have 100% control over it and thus have the ability to change it, which is incredibly freeing and a much more effective mindset to make positive change in my life. 
  • Alex Javor
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    Alex Javor insane polycounter
    100% agree with all of that Tim. I remember watching one video that very dramatically told the tale of one of these poor guys who got all excited that he finally landed a job in AAA at Taletell (however you spell it). He upped and moved his family only to lose the job before it started, and of course now they were in strange place with no money and no job.

    My first reaction is, "you dummy, why'd you bank everything on that and not have a safety net."

    But then I think, okay, we can point out that he made some fatal errors born of naivete. But he's pretty young. Young enough that he doesn't expect other people to take advantage of him. But is that a greater woe than the chumps who had power and prestige and made so many bad decisions that it created a situation like that in the first place? And in a lot of cases it seems people like this are actively predated upon because of their naivete.

    I can understand how you guys get job satisfaction from your work and how a lot of the media noise is certainly coming from people who are going to be outraged no matter what.. but at the same time, I hate triple A games and all this gambling nonsense... and the way all of this is just kind of not talked about while the artist quietly focus on their craft. Makes me think of Nazi's just following orders. Not the same in degree, but similar in principle. When you know something isn't right and you know that you're a part of it, but you just keep on because you in a comfortable position. It's not a good thing to be a tiny part of a big evil, even if it is something as silly as video games. Fact is people spend a lot of time and money on entertainment, so it should be focused on making positive change in peoples lives, not sneakily infiltrating their psyches and robbing them for their flaws. Well, whatever. Like biomag is saying, that's an issue of capitalism and society. But it is very egregious in games right now and no way I could be part of it.

    I think a good thing to do would be for some senior artist people who have reputation to make some very honest videos explaining what work is liek in AAA companies, both as a warning to people who don't understand what its really like and also to help attract those people who do have strong desire to be on teams like that. Look up special forces recruitment videos and you will get the idea. Scare off the timid, attract the lions. Right now, most tutorials I find gearred towards noobs interested in games biz seem like they are made for toddlers. But you guys aren't working like toddlers are you?


    Then your company is goign to save money by getting the right people for the job, and hurt fewer people who come with the wrong expectations. More money saved, less bad PR. All by setting the right expectations up front.












  • sacboi
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    sacboi ngon master
    Look up special forces recruitment videos and you will get the idea. Scare off the timid, attract the lions.

    Lol...dig the analogy. Was best mates with a few of those SF types back in the day, when I was serving and the most striking trait shared amongst them wasn't that they'd resembled that 'apex' super soldier splashed across recruiting posters which too a man they definitely didn't...just your run of the mill unassuming 'Joe Average' you wouldn't look twice at passing in the street but was the sheer strength/force of character radiating like gamma rays that advertised, shit this dude is one SWITCHED ON mofo.      

  • focus_method
    oh jeez, not this again ...

    It's not that complicated.

    low-tier artists need to be in the area and need to know people
    med-tier artists send out applications and will be given art tests and interviews based on their folios
    top-tier artists are contacted by recruiters from around the world

    I'm sorry, this is how it goes.
    yea, i think you're right. This makes sense as far as i noticed too
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