Real time mouth interior

nimlot26

I've decided last week to make a decent mouth interior for my patrons on Patreon. I also did it for my future projects since I always used this not so realistic mouth interior that I've modeled more than 10 years ago. It was also a challenge for me to see if I can pull through a realistic look with the marmoset shaders.

If you wanna support my work or you are looking for a mentor join me on Patreon https://www.patreon.com/nimlot

Or you can get this from my gumroad https://gum.co/AGfau 

It turned out like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeAUqcUAClU&feature=youtu.be

Aydhe

man, this looks so good.

nimlot26

Aydhe said:

man, this looks so good.

Thanks

FourtyNights

Adding transitional meshes could finalize the already great look for your gums/teeth:

https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/012/926/967/large/vadim-sorici-transitional-meshes-tutorial-teeth01-update.jpg?1537221551

carvuliero

Does realistic mean anatomically correct or just looking good ?

Eric Chadwick

Transitional meshes technique is meant to mimic gums SSS. Not really needed here since you've lightened the gums at the teeth bases. Also kind of overkill IMO for an asset that will be hidden 99% of the time.

Looking great.

nimlot26

carvuliero said:

Does realistic mean anatomically correct or just looking good ?

It's anatomically correct. Had a lot of feedback from a dental technician while working on them.

Eric Chadwick said:

Transitional meshes technique is meant to mimic gums SSS. Not really needed here since you've lightened the gums at the teeth bases. Also kind of overkill IMO for an asset that will be hidden 99% of the time.

Looking great.

Thanks Eric.

Tbh when I'm looking at characters in games...especially at in game cinematics...90% of the time they have this ugly looking teeth. So if you go for realism, especially for your portfolio, I think some proper looking teeth are required....ofc when they're seen.

carvuliero

That's sad then I will let you and your consultant to find the differences

nimlot26

carvuliero said:

That's sad then I will let you and your consultant to find the differences

Love this passive aggressive reply.

Yeah man...it's not perfect and we all have different teeth, not to mention that wisdom teeth I suppose you try to show me that it's missing which for most of the people is under the gums. The positioning is also a problem? Don't worry that can be fixed in 10 s with a simple move tool in any 3d software. Anything else?

Can you do it better? Do it and share with the people couse the internet is filled with poor quality mouth interior(like mine).

carvuliero

Rodesqa_Art

I missed the part where people where going to fly into the mouth for a top-down view this is for games not for taking the jaw off in some violent 3d cinematic... 

Alex_J

yeah...

while I appreciate @carvulieros attention to realistic detail, the passive aggressive tone starts the critiques off on the wrong foot. It becomes less about empowering others and more about a battle of ego's. And the entire point of the community is to empower each other, right?

Also, there always has to be a line somewhere between surgical-level anatomy and realistic pragmatism. If you have to bust out a millimeter level ruler to explain why something isn't perfect, maybe it's still passable for games. This isn't being lazy -- nobody gets to call me lazy, okay -- but there has to be a line drawn somewhere so you aren't wasting time. The goal is of course to get an appealing, optimized game out the door, not stroke our own ego's over attention devoted to details nobody will ever notice.

If you are trying to build a following, for mentorship or whatever, it would probably be more effective to display expertise by posting your expert work (like nimlot is here), rather than offering sharp tongued, demeaning criticisms of others work. Every friend multiplies opportunities, every enemy divides. Simple math.

BradMyers82

Nice work here!

purehilarity

carvuliero said:

Does realistic mean anatomically correct or just looking good ?

People like you ruin this community. You're a "majar" dbag. Awesome work OP.

carvuliero

Any one else have problem with my critiques ? if I am to stop giving critiques  I will need at least few more

carvuliero said:

Does realistic mean anatomically correct or just looking good ?

People like you ruin this community. You're a "majar" dbag. Awesome work OP.

Is that so , do you have proof of the things you claim ?

Also if you could use your flawless logic and explain to me how asking a simple questions ruin the community

Do you know anyone else who specialize in community ruinnation maybe we can get together and exchange ideas ?

Remember this guy and what he said :[probably not]

https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2667178#Comment_2667178

https://darrenhorrocks.com/projects/7042240
..especially this few lines :
"To steer away from the participation medal mindset that has made its way into the 3D art community. Many moons ago, people were openly critical of each others work, sometimes it was harsh but most often it was reality. If you posted your work, that was an open invitation for criticism and feedback. Unfortunately I feel the online art communities of today have lost this aspect of holding each other accountable. To squeeze every last ounce of effort out of a persons work, and to collectively make it as good as it can be"

Obviously I have to explain myself as there are ppl that still can get the point a cross
In my opinion experience artist should be critiqued and critiqued harsh as a lot of ppl look to them for that magical quality everyone is talking about , so what happen when some of this artist make a mistake , it create ripple down the chain , there is your quality ... gone

If this piece was just for his portfolio I wont even bother commenting on it everyone is free to put whatever he/she wants in their portfolio but did because first model is incorrect second he's claiming to be correct and third he is selling it -> more incorrect models all over the place

Now lets take a similar model that was posted few days after for comparison

https://polycount.com/discussion/210151/free-teeth-model-anatomical-approach#latest

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/QzzEP8

This guy did his research and O miracle ! all of mistakes of the above one are not evident so its possible , its not something super complex that only I care about

And of course for the few ppl that can not read between the lines :

"carvuliero said:
Does realistic mean anatomically correct or just looking good ?
nimlot26 said :
It's anatomically correct. Had a lot of feedback from a dental technician while working on them.
carvuliero said:
That's sad then I will let you and your consultant to find the differences "

So hes either bluffing or his consultant know nothing about teeth in either case I don't see anything wrong with my reply -its called irony you know ! its not passive aggressive what ever


PS: Long live the mediocrity and PC culture
PPS : You don't agree even better share it with community in hope that at least some of my destruction is restored
PPPS : Kids don't do this at home : unspoken rule of polycount you can not criticize anyone who work in a game industry , you can not criticize anyone with more then 2 friends[or fans] you can not criticize anyone period

For this who still think I am nit picking his likeness female model had glaring proportional issues with her face so its not one time thing

NikhilR

@nimlot26

So I worked as a dentist, and this does look very accurate. I would need to take a closer look if it is anatomically accurate to dental scan standards, which to be honest is not necessary in a model that is averaged out. 

Dental arches/teeth have a variety of shapes, positions and sizes and I'm pretty sure that most game models likely use one single set, maybe slighting modded for fit and any obvious irregularities.

For a game ready model, it would be necessary to go with averages, also taking into account baking and optimisation.
In that sense it is overkill if its not really seen as much, but as an asset displayed as is, it has everything it needs to be accurate enough for games.

@carvuliero - the other model you posted is great also.

Alex_J

critiques are great, @carvuliero, but you should deliver them the same way you would if you were talking in person. With respect. Has nothing to do with being harsh  or not, you are clearly just being mean, jealous, hateful, so then the time you are taking to deliver a useful critique gets ruined. You really don't have to be nice, just don't talk down is all. Start with respect, end with respect. If you are really intent on changing a persons mind, first make them your friend. Otherwise it's war, and nobody wins in war.

Also, if you are gonna be very harsh with a critique, you definitely definitely need to be correct. If you are going for an ambush, you need to have certainty that you'll have total victory. Not a mere hunch. But one look in the mirror and I can tell you that your critique was not correct. So I think you had a personal vendetta, and not enough research. My teeth are shaped more like the OP's, and less like your example. But they are different than both. There is no noticeable change in direction between my front teeth, canines, and molars. They are all pretty much straight. Never had braces. Normal human deviation.

Still I think there is some important things you point out that are good to look for, so I appreciate that but definitely if you were a coworker in my office and oyu were talking to me like this I would be primed for a violent response. Especially, imagine somebody who  is already stressed out from crunch or just a long day in front of a computer, and you are talking to them like they're an idiot over inconsequential details. Do you think that would build a strong team?

Just got to have more respect, doesn't matter who it is. Georgian hands out some pretty tough critiques himself, but always does so with respect so even if he burns you, you don't get mad at him.

here is what a more respectful but still harsh critique may look like :

"hey man, i appreciate what you are doing, however if realism is your goal I think there's some key things you missed. They are...... blah blah blah.  " Simple, to the point, no petty power games. Just exchange of information and worded in a way that leaves the possibility of yourself making a mistake open. That's really the key. If you are making yourself out to be the expert, as soon as it's clear that you aren't, everybody is gonna dog pile you. So always factor in your own ignorance.

carvuliero

Ok biggie you called me jealous and hateful for a second time so I think is about time to address that [jealous and hateful  about what ppl bad art ? I don't know why mods still keep you around with all the mindless stuff you writing all over the place , its really that bad I stop reading your comments months ago ,If you don't know something just don't say anything or if you cant control your attention seeking problem at lease use the warnings you use to use "I am beginner as you but..." and "I don't know anything about but ... " second been my favorite so at least ppl know who are they dealing with and wont be misguided and confuse with your "wisdom"]
Are you really that stupid or just playing stupid to no be able to understand that you and your art are not the same thing ,critiquing someone's art is not personal attack !

Let me give you a simple example so your big brain of yours can wrap around it more easily

So you never sculpt before first day result blobby mess , week later something that look like alien/monster head , few years later decent  sculpture .Do you think at any moment you are what you have produce ... blobby mess monster head and so on , No that's expression of your current knowledge

I was reading Darren's critique yesterday and surprise surprise what I found on the bottom

https://darrenhorrocks.com/projects/7042240

"

▐ ▐ ▐ ATTENTION ARTISTS ▐ ▐ ▐
"I was surprised to see that there wasn't much positive feedback as much as improvement feedback which I'm not complaining but curious."

This is a comment I received in response to a review I did, and I wanted to take a moment to address it.

Growth does not come from people patting you on the back and saying "good job". Growth is from people who demand the most out of you. It comes from surrounding yourself with people who have different perspectives than you, and will challenge you to think differently and aspire to become better. Get your self-esteem boost through ArtStation comments if that's what you're looking for.

If all I did was stroke your ego, you wouldn't learn anything. Don't take your art so personal. Keep your artwork at arms length so you can be open minded to criticism, and able to learn something through the process. Quit giving excuses and start taking responsibility. Ownership, accountability, and responsibility are some of the most important words to forge your careers around.

"

PS: been nice and cheery is great but it does not work for every occasion

Alex_J

@carvuliero

Well, the main thing is, people can easily find the art I am making. And Georgian. And most of the artist here giving critiques on the reg have easy access to their work.

But you don't have any art work that I can find... so how do we know you are such an expert to talk down to proven industry leaders? Should we just take your word? That is the entire reason I take the time to call you out here. Of course Georgian can be critiqued, like anybody else. But you are doing so in a very insulting way, like he is a child and you the adult. And before this you have shown a particular hate towards other senior artist. And throughout it all, we can't even be sure that you are an artist at all.

You've got to recognize the difference between giving a critique and insulting another artist. You don't like the way I write, probably because it's polar opposite of you. I try to encourage person to think for themselves, only use my critique as data to analyze, accept or reject; but you want to build a persona of expertise.... which would be a lot better if we can see your art.

About my blobby headed monster heads, if you read the text you'll see this is a workflow test. Also, it's a shrunken head. They have the skull removed. But anyway, I like to share all my ugly WIP stuff, because I've learned a lot from seeing such work from other artist. In the beginning it helped me overcome perfectionism, which is a real killer in the learning process. Realizing that art is an iterative process helps to bust through useless loops and continue making forward progress. So I like to put my junk out there, and eventually when I am making great art then people can see the entire process and appreciate it.

A lot of artist only show their best, polished work, which is fine, but I am not here to build my ego castle. That's not empowering other people. I am not impressed by somebody who excels only in aggrandizing themselves. I'm for team, which is why I want you to be your best and deliver your great critiques without the added hate.

FourtyNights

@BIGTIMEMASTER You should look a bit more closely about carvuliero's recent posting history from his signature "AnatomyMentor" and check out threads where he's been helping artists. All I can see a friendly discussion back and forth between the mentor and artist. There's a nice growth with the artist from the beginning of the thread to the latest post with the help of carvuliero's feedback/criticism. He has also given pointers to me on my previous character project and really appreciate his help. In this thread I found his feedback being on point and just a bit goofy, like "That's sad then I will let you and your consultant to find the differences." Not "insulting, hateful, mean or jealous", you're taking it a tad too seriously.

He was also nominated in "The 2018 Greentooth Awards Voting: Best Individual" poll for a reason, helping character artists around here in polycount to get their anatomy knowledge stronger. Oh, and he has an ArtStation as well: https://www.artstation.com/carvuliero.

Alex_J

Not saying he is not a useful person, or doesn't take a lot of time to give out fantastic critiques and help other artist. But on several occassions he's attacked other senior artist as he has done here -- in a way like he isn't trying to help but is instead trying to dominate. I realize there is some difference in the way people from different cultures speak but I've seen a few people share the same sentiments as me. Someone above said he was "ruining the community," which I think is extreme however it does suggest that he is making things feel unwelcome for some people. And the people coming here for critiques are not little babies, they want tough critiques... they just don't want hate and petty little power games. Just say your critique and move on. It's simple.

What makes it worse is that he has very little art to show... just a matter of opinion of course but clearly the artist he is belittling here is many times more accomplished, so the condescending tone then is completely unwarranted.

So I'm not trying to shame carvuleiro, but I think he should be more mindful about how he approaches his peers as that is going to reflect well on him and probably help his business more. Establish expertise by displaying expert work, not by belittling other experts. Harsh critiques are a good thing, hating on others is not.

carvuliero

Biggie do you know whats the problem here , its you and what we doing here is just feeding your attention seeking addiction [this sweet sweet endorphine ] We have a saying in my country "kill the idiot with silences" and this is exactly what I am going to do

Alex_J

attention seeking... it is definitely true that I want people to know I exist, and furthermore I try to set a good example and teach younger people something useful . But I am not the one jumping on every senior character artist with condescending crap like, "why don't you tell me what's wrong? can you tell me one good reason you don't do such and such?" and then throwing a fit when they reject the  critique... you are like a petty dictator man. You think only you know whats best, you cannot withstand any criticism, and you project all of your shortcomings on others. I've seen you describe two awesome artist as mediocre. But your artstation has two zbrush sculpts in static, stiff pose. That's it. What gives?

It's simple dude, don't talk shit, don't be a dick.

carvuliero

Don't feed him please he will do or say anything to get his next fix

Of course they are static and stiff that's the point when I start teaching dynamic poses I will post some of those