The pipeline of environment art? how do you go about it?

Pultz

Hi my name is Jeff Pultz i have a lot of question about environment art and the pipeline of it. Would like some opinions or workflows from people with experience in that field.

A short intro. I have just started on a 3D school where we work with 3Ds max, before that i worked a little with Maya myself. I have 6 month at this school before I need to find a internship, so it's going quick but I are putting the work into it and working my ass of to reach my dream. I have always loved games and known i was going to work it it one day. When i got to the school it didn't take me long to know i wanted to work with environments and prop design. I have always liked the art style that Blizzard produced and some studios are going towards, the art that we call stylized, but more specific the style that is used in Heroes and the Storm and Overwatch.

So i was hoping that some veterans or people with a lot of knowledge working with environment art could share their wisdom with me. As a newcomer to this field. If someone that has or are working at Blizzard could share how it's done at Blizzard it would be a giant help, I'm not foolish and believe that i can get an internship at blizzard as the first job, but i want to aim for the best i can and work my way up in the industry.

The Questions:

- How is you pipeline working with environment art, and what programs do you use to create stylized art?

- Are you going like this "Modeling program --> zBrush --> xNormal/Marmoset toolbag 3 --> 3D Coat --> Game Engine?"

- Is Substance Designer a need to know for creating textures in the industry?

- Lowpoly --> UVW Wrap --> zBrush (for highpoly) --> bake normal map. Is that the work flow for getting the best result?

- When are you using to many programs and just over complicating things?

- Have any general tips on this? 

And to get some points or on whats next i have some images of a light pole i have made in 3Ds max.

and would like to know what is the next step towards a stylized look, and if there are some pointers on how to model it better i would appreciate that too.

All your help is appreciate and sorry for the long introduction, felt like it was necessary for the under standing of me being a newcomer and so that you know you kinda has to "dumb it down".

The model

The UVW map made in 3Ds max

Thanks in advance.

- Jeff Pultz

Eric Chadwick

Welcome to Polycount!

I used to be an Environment Artist for games (>20 years!) so I put a lot of info here in our wiki. You should spend some time digging around in here. http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Environment

We have quite a few past & present Blizzard artists here. You should check out their post histories for good info about workflow etc.
http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Polycounter_Job_Census#Blizzard_Entertainment_.28Irvine.2C_CA.29
Off the top of my head:
https://polycount.com/profile/discussions/[HP]
https://polycount.com/profile/discussions/IxenonI
https://polycount.com/profile/discussions/Jessica Dinh
https://polycount.com/profile/discussions/Orb

As for your model, it's a great start! Though you can and should overlap UVs, to maximize texture space usage. Only make areas unique in the texture that absolutely have to be. You can reuse a ton, which means you get smaller pixels on the model, and more efficient memory use. You'll find examples once you start digging.

Pultz

Eric Chadwick said:

Welcome to Polycount!


As for your model, it's a great start! Though you can and should overlap UVs, to maximize texture space usage. Only make areas unique in the texture that absolutely have to be. You can reuse a ton, which means you get smaller pixels on the model, and more efficient memory use. You'll find examples once you start digging.

First of all Thanks for all the information i will go digging for knowledge.

And thanks for the tip about overlapping of UVs, is there a program that is smart and know when to do so because 3Ds Max doesn't. But i will diffidently try that after i have dogged around in all the awesome new thinks you have shared.

Again thanks for taking your time to find the the information and share it with me.

Pultz

Eric Chadwick said:

Welcome to Polycount!

I used to be an Environment Artist for games (>20 years!) so I put a lot of info here in our wiki. You should spend some time digging around in here. http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Environment

Again Thanks for the links have been looking around on the wiki and can't seem to find anything on the pipeline or workflow. and most of the links are broken or have been deleted from the forum. So i kinda had a feeling of incomplete after reading some of the stuff. That doesn't mean i didn't find anything useful though but most of it was just broken links and could not find anything specific on how to go with a prop to normal map to game engine. I think I'm looking for what is the best way to handle your model like the knowledge behind why you do this and not this and so on.

But thanks for all the help. I will keep digging on the wide web for small fragments of information maybe and then compile it all.

Note: This was the best site i found that covers small fragments of most of it.

https://environmentart.wordpress.com/category/normal-baking/

Eric Chadwick

Sorry about the links, just the nature of the web I'm afraid. Don't let that stop you from finding resources! There's a ton of good info out there.

For normsl mapping process this might help
http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Texture_Baking

Linko

@Plutz For environment modeling but even for any game asset you produce you don't need to stick to specific software, they want their FBX/glTF2.0 LoDs. What matters is that it fits in the game.

I am sure in studios like Blizzard some don't use half of the software you have mentioned and some use Blender. Also they ask external studios to create their assets, skins and special events like Airborn Studios which as Blender artists contributing to OverWatch for example: https://www.blendernation.com/2017/04/22/overwatch/

sprunghunt

The workflow you will use can change from project to project. It can be different depending on which studio you're working for or what type of game you're working on. 

However I usually do this for personal projects and most professional ones: 

1) make blockout in maya 
2) make hipoly in zbrush 
3) make lowpoly in maya 
3) UV map in maya
4) bake and texture in substance designer or painter

The most important thing is to not worry about it too much. I used to use 3dsMax instead of maya. I used to use xNormal instead of substance for baking. It wouldn't worry me if I had to switch back. I could texture in photoshop instead of substance if I needed to. None of these pieces of software would change the way things look for most assets. 

Pultz

sprunghunt said:

The workflow you will use can change from project to project. It can be different depending on which studio you're working for or what type of game you're working on. 

However I usually do this for personal projects and most professional ones: 

1) make blockout in maya 
2) make hipoly in zbrush 
3) make lowpoly in maya 
3) UV map in maya
4) bake and texture in substance designer or painter

The most important thing is to not worry about it too much. I used to use 3dsMax instead of maya. I used to use xNormal instead of substance for baking. It wouldn't worry me if I had to switch back. I could texture in photoshop instead of substance if I needed to. None of these pieces of software would change the way things look for most assets. 

So you make a hipoly before a lowpoly in maya ?

ActionDawg

Pultz said:

sprunghunt said:

The workflow you will use can change from project to project. It can be different depending on which studio you're working for or what type of game you're working on. 

However I usually do this for personal projects and most professional ones: 

1) make blockout in maya 
2) make hipoly in zbrush 
3) make lowpoly in maya 
3) UV map in maya
4) bake and texture in substance designer or painter

The most important thing is to not worry about it too much. I used to use 3dsMax instead of maya. I used to use xNormal instead of substance for baking. It wouldn't worry me if I had to switch back. I could texture in photoshop instead of substance if I needed to. None of these pieces of software would change the way things look for most assets. 

So you make a hipoly before a lowpoly in maya ?

generally yes. for most people the blockout and high poly stages inform how the low poly is created, because they're the "ground truth" and the low poly is only an approximation of what you'd really like to display.

sprunghunt

Pultz said:

sprunghunt said:

The workflow you will use can change from project to project. It can be different depending on which studio you're working for or what type of game you're working on. 

However I usually do this for personal projects and most professional ones: 

1) make blockout in maya 
2) make hipoly in zbrush 
3) make lowpoly in maya 
3) UV map in maya
4) bake and texture in substance designer or painter

The most important thing is to not worry about it too much. I used to use 3dsMax instead of maya. I used to use xNormal instead of substance for baking. It wouldn't worry me if I had to switch back. I could texture in photoshop instead of substance if I needed to. None of these pieces of software would change the way things look for most assets. 

So you make a hipoly before a lowpoly in maya ?

Yes - when I'm making the hipoly I'm also making design decisions about how an asset should look. So there's no point trying to lock anything down. The lowpoly has to fit the hipoly and not the other way around. 

Pultz

sprunghunt said:

Pultz said:

sprunghunt said:

The workflow you will use can change from project to project. It can be different depending on which studio you're working for or what type of game you're working on. 

However I usually do this for personal projects and most professional ones: 

1) make blockout in maya 
2) make hipoly in zbrush 
3) make lowpoly in maya 
3) UV map in maya
4) bake and texture in substance designer or painter

The most important thing is to not worry about it too much. I used to use 3dsMax instead of maya. I used to use xNormal instead of substance for baking. It wouldn't worry me if I had to switch back. I could texture in photoshop instead of substance if I needed to. None of these pieces of software would change the way things look for most assets. 

So you make a hipoly before a lowpoly in maya ?

Yes - when I'm making the hipoly I'm also making design decisions about how an asset should look. So there's no point trying to lock anything down. The lowpoly has to fit the hipoly and not the other way around. 

Okay so how do you go around doing that because i have found it easier to make a lowpoly take it into zBrush and create bumps and scratches and so on in there. But would you make like a prop so you create the highpoly barrel in Maya or 3Ds Max, and then create a lowpoly version of that and then take it into zBrush and create the bumps and dents?

sprunghunt

Pultz said:

sprunghunt said:

Pultz said:

sprunghunt said:

The workflow you will use can change from project to project. It can be different depending on which studio you're working for or what type of game you're working on. 

However I usually do this for personal projects and most professional ones: 

1) make blockout in maya 
2) make hipoly in zbrush 
3) make lowpoly in maya 
3) UV map in maya
4) bake and texture in substance designer or painter

The most important thing is to not worry about it too much. I used to use 3dsMax instead of maya. I used to use xNormal instead of substance for baking. It wouldn't worry me if I had to switch back. I could texture in photoshop instead of substance if I needed to. None of these pieces of software would change the way things look for most assets. 

So you make a hipoly before a lowpoly in maya ?

Yes - when I'm making the hipoly I'm also making design decisions about how an asset should look. So there's no point trying to lock anything down. The lowpoly has to fit the hipoly and not the other way around. 

Okay so how do you go around doing that because i have found it easier to make a lowpoly take it into zBrush and create bumps and scratches and so on in there. But would you make like a prop so you create the highpoly barrel in Maya or 3Ds Max, and then create a lowpoly version of that and then take it into zBrush and create the bumps and dents?

Not everything I make has bumps and dents on it. Sometimes I'm making a piece of machinery that's relatively new. 
I would sometimes do what you're doing. It really depends on exactly what I'm modeling.

Like I said it's not important to have one workflow that you use all the time. You change workflow depending on the way you want an object to look. 

Pultz

sprunghunt said:

Pultz said:

sprunghunt said:

Pultz said:

sprunghunt said:

The workflow you will use can change from project to project. It can be different depending on which studio you're working for or what type of game you're working on. 

However I usually do this for personal projects and most professional ones: 

1) make blockout in maya 
2) make hipoly in zbrush 
3) make lowpoly in maya 
3) UV map in maya
4) bake and texture in substance designer or painter

The most important thing is to not worry about it too much. I used to use 3dsMax instead of maya. I used to use xNormal instead of substance for baking. It wouldn't worry me if I had to switch back. I could texture in photoshop instead of substance if I needed to. None of these pieces of software would change the way things look for most assets. 

So you make a hipoly before a lowpoly in maya ?

Yes - when I'm making the hipoly I'm also making design decisions about how an asset should look. So there's no point trying to lock anything down. The lowpoly has to fit the hipoly and not the other way around. 

Okay so how do you go around doing that because i have found it easier to make a lowpoly take it into zBrush and create bumps and scratches and so on in there. But would you make like a prop so you create the highpoly barrel in Maya or 3Ds Max, and then create a lowpoly version of that and then take it into zBrush and create the bumps and dents?

Not everything I make has bumps and dents on it. Sometimes I'm making a piece of machinery that's relatively new. 
I would sometimes do what you're doing. It really depends on exactly what I'm modeling.

Like I said it's not important to have one workflow that you use all the time. You change workflow depending on the way you want an object to look. 

Thanks man that helped a lot right now my workflow is 3Ds max -> zBrush -> Marmoset -> 3D Coat -> Marmoset (Render)

And it kinda works for the small props.

But have a question want to create an arena like in Battlerite and was wondering how you would go about the round shape and making the floor tile?

Example. How would you go about doing the floor? and make a round shape stay that round?

A paint over with some information would be appreciated a lot.

Eric Chadwick

These are done with modular workflow. Combine tiling textures, tiling meshes, and set pieces. Mirror and repeat whenever possible, breaking up repetition with props and unique set pieces.

If you dig into the Topics posted by the artists I linked above, you'll find similar examples of round floor pieces, and sometimes the breakdowns of how they're put together. Seek! And Ye Shall Find!

sprunghunt

Pultz said:

sprunghunt said:

Pultz said:

sprunghunt said:

Pultz said:

sprunghunt said:

The workflow you will use can change from project to project. It can be different depending on which studio you're working for or what type of game you're working on. 

However I usually do this for personal projects and most professional ones: 

1) make blockout in maya 
2) make hipoly in zbrush 
3) make lowpoly in maya 
3) UV map in maya
4) bake and texture in substance designer or painter

The most important thing is to not worry about it too much. I used to use 3dsMax instead of maya. I used to use xNormal instead of substance for baking. It wouldn't worry me if I had to switch back. I could texture in photoshop instead of substance if I needed to. None of these pieces of software would change the way things look for most assets. 

So you make a hipoly before a lowpoly in maya ?

Yes - when I'm making the hipoly I'm also making design decisions about how an asset should look. So there's no point trying to lock anything down. The lowpoly has to fit the hipoly and not the other way around. 

Okay so how do you go around doing that because i have found it easier to make a lowpoly take it into zBrush and create bumps and scratches and so on in there. But would you make like a prop so you create the highpoly barrel in Maya or 3Ds Max, and then create a lowpoly version of that and then take it into zBrush and create the bumps and dents?

Not everything I make has bumps and dents on it. Sometimes I'm making a piece of machinery that's relatively new. 
I would sometimes do what you're doing. It really depends on exactly what I'm modeling.

Like I said it's not important to have one workflow that you use all the time. You change workflow depending on the way you want an object to look. 

Thanks man that helped a lot right now my workflow is 3Ds max -> zBrush -> Marmoset -> 3D Coat -> Marmoset (Render)

And it kinda works for the small props.

But have a question want to create an arena like in Battlerite and was wondering how you would go about the round shape and making the floor tile?

Example. How would you go about doing the floor? and make a round shape stay that round?

A paint over with some information would be appreciated a lot.

Your problem has nothing to do with your workflow. Or if you use max or marmoset or zbrush. 

I suggest you give it a try modeling these shapes, probably in max, and then post your attempt in the "how do I model this?" thread:

https://polycount.com/discussion/56014/how-the-f-do-i-model-this-reply-for-help-with-specific-shapes-post-attempt-before-asking

Pultz

sprunghunt said:

Your problem has nothing to do with your workflow. Or if you use max or marmoset or zbrush. 

I suggest you give it a try modeling these shapes, probably in max, and then post your attempt in the "how do I model this?" thread:

https://polycount.com/discussion/56014/how-the-f-do-i-model-this-reply-for-help-with-specific-shapes-post-attempt-before-asking

Thanks for all the help