TAR-21 w/ Attachments

ftsmith

Artstation link for 3D Viewer and Final Render: 

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/BmVvvD

Hi everyone,

This is a project Iv'e been working on for a while. It's a TAR-21 with the following attachments:

*  EXPS2-2 Holographic Sight with G33.STS Magnifier
*  FAB Defense Integrated T-Grip Foregrip & Light Holder
*  FAB Defense TAR Podium 
*  Steiner Optics OTAL-A Laser Sight
*  CAA Clear Action Mag 17
*  TAR Integrated Suppressor 

I just finished the highpoly and I wanted to get some feedback on the model before I start the next process. If there are more shots you want to see or if you have any questions, let me know.

References:

ftsmith

A progress update.

I finished UV mapping the gun and decided to separate the model into two maps. One for the rifle itself and the other for the attachments. I finished laying out the rifle portion so I decided to do a test bake in Marmoset 3 to skip out on making a cage. It was my first time using Marmoset for baking so there was some things I had to figure out, but once I did things became a lot easier. I baked out a Normal and AO map and I'm pretty pleased with the results. 

The next thing I'm gonna try to do is finish laying out the UV maps for the attachments and try to figure out how to lay out all the islands without changing the telex density to much.

Like always if there's anything I can improve on let me know.

Alex_J

It looks to me like the scale of some of your accessories is off. Check the size of the laser pointer compared to the weapon. This may involve looking up the actual sizes -- a bit of a chore -- but I'd be really surprised if that laser isn't significantly larger in relation to the weapon.

Also, the position of the reflex sight and that other thing is too far back on the rail. The users eye would be about even with the trigger. Looks like you got some reference photos with such a placement.

Other than that, great work so far.

ftsmith

Hello everyone, just another progress update.

I finally finished the normal map bake for the attachments. I decided to use a cageless bake because of all the awkward shapes, but it was my first time using it so it took me a while to figure things out. But now that I know what I'm doing I'm pretty happy with the results and I like how much of a time saver it is. 

With BIGTIMEMASTER suggestion I went back and doubled checked all my measurements. Luckily I didn't have to make too many adjustments but he/she was right about the laser.

Unless there's something major i have to change, I can finally start texturing. Like always any feedback is greatly welcomed.

ftsmith

Hey everyone just another quick update.

I finished my first basic material pass to get the materials right. Identifying materials and transferring it to 3D is one of my biggest weakness so any feedback is appreciated.

MarcoAntonio

Great Work!!

ftsmith

Hi everyone just another update.

I finished my secondary details and added some damage. I usually have a hard time with creating interesting and natural damage on my models so any feedback on that part would be very helpful.

My next step is to add tertiary details using Quixel NDO.

Like always any feedback is always welcomed.

ftsmith

Hello everyone. Another update with all the tertiary details done. All of of the normal was done with Quixel, a program I never used before until now and all the labels were done with alpha maps in substance painter.

My next step is to go back into the model and add dirt/grime build up on where the mesh intersects so that all the pieces blend together, then set up a final render in Marmoset.

This project is almost done so let me know if there is anything that I missed to do or if there is anything that I should do.

Zi0

You really did a nice job on the model and bakes but the textures need some more work. Right now everything is black and looks the same and you could add a accent color somewhere. Good reference are weapons from call of duty take a look:
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/raq9J
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/me8DZ

Altho the tavor is mostly polymer there are ways to make plastic look more interesting, this weapon is a good example:

Try to add some roughness and color variations as well.

Good luck!

ftsmith

Hello everyone. It's been.... it's been a little while.

For various reasons it took a lot of time for me to get re-motivated to finish this but I wanted to finish it eventually. I took the advice of Zi0 and changed some of the roughness/color variation. I think it came out really well especially the lighting which is rare from me. But of course after staring at this for such a long time I probably missed something so if there is anything I can do to push this further, I'm all ears.

ftsmith

Hello everyone,

I think it's time to call this project done. It was a really, really, really long process, but I finally came out with something I'm proud of. It was a great learning experience and it really improved my techniques and software knowledge. Unless there is something major I probably won't go back and change things, but I still want to hear the critiques so that I can use them for my next project. 

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/Oy3aye

I included the link to the artstation page if you want to look at the 3D viewer

RianShelton

This is looking pretty good, but it would go from good to great if you did a High Poly and baked some normals for this bad boy! I know you're calling it done but I think if you go back and spend the time on doing this, you could really have yourself a nice piece.

MBS320

I apologize if I'm being too harsh here.

 Your modelling was pretty good, I'd say the high poly had really sharp edges (you'd normally want a softer look for your high poly, so you'd get a 'healthy' bake) and your low poly could be cleaned up/optimized some more, but its honestly really good. Unfortunately, all of this is let down by your textures. It just needs a few more passes. I'm not a Quixel user, so I'm not sure what to suggest except doing another pass on the materials to create a stronger impression for them. Feel free to exaggerate the color/roughness variation or give it dirt/scratches to build character.

Also, look at the post above yours (by Zio), see how that gun reads well despite being plain black. Lets not forget this is an art prop, so if black isn't doing it, then do the tan tavor or completely shake it up and do a custom skin. Here's perhaps the best example I can think of:

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/awNAJ

Zi0

My feedback would be that the textures could use some more work, currently everything is a bit boring you need some color and roughness variation and height details like damage in the plastic. The plastic grain seems too big compared to the plastic a tavor is made of. I think you need to look a bit more at reference images and dont only look at the real tavor but also at game models from games like call of duty and other work by different artist on artstation especially the ones that have made weapons with a lot of plastic parts. Here is one example: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/o6Qk4

Good luck!

ftsmith

Thanks for the feedback you guys. If my textures are that bad I guess I have no choice but to go back and update them. Instead of varying a bunch of shades of black, I'll probably make a skin or something.

ftsmith

Hey guys. 

Iv'e been working on the textures like suggested. I decided to add a Persona 5 themed texture, but I'm not sure if it's too tacky or not (I even thought of a cool name to call the skin too), so I wanted some feedback on it. I'm still messing with the roughness and color variations, but I wanted to see if the changes I'm making are better or worse.

Shrike

A skin does not fix the texture but clearly makes it more unique and interesting

The textures are not bad, but its just the base material layer, its just the first step and not done.
(Also it looks like your AO is missing + the materials are too much of the same type)

Step 1: Define base materials with micro details, roughness and albedo/spec etc
Step 2: Add medium and large scale material variation and details (larger splotches of rougness variance, tint, soft dirt, bleaching etc)
Step 3: The key to any good realtime texture; edge definition. Add small scale highlights and continue with medium and large scale 'drybrushing', convexity based edge wear, continuing with some larger scale details on the flat surfaces as well
Step 4: Add some unique details and extras, text, camo, sticker, other gimmicks for a bit of uniqueness and relatablility

You just kind of stopped at the start of step 2

ftsmith

Thanks for breaking it down for me. I'm about to write that down somewhere. I'll continue messing with the textures and add some edge wear.

ftsmith

Just a quick progress update.

 I realized I should probably post more frequently so that I can get feedback sooner rather than later. I added some more exaggerated grunge and edge wear to my textures. I still need to go back and add some more variations and grunge to more spots, but I wanted to see if I'm heading in the right direction.

Shrike

Try some different lighting and use a HDRI
It is an improvement and the materials look more varied
Try add some color variation, these metals and plastics are not just gray shades, they have some hue usually
Also many of your edges are too sharp which hurt the model, especially around the attachments and magazine.
The Bipod area looks a bit confused in contrast, it is little defined, maybe make it a bit lighter

ftsmith

Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad I'm heading in the right direction.

I render in Marmoset so it should already be using HRDI (unless I'm misunderstanding something), but once the textures are sorted out, I'll go back and redo my presentation.

Also, as much as I wanted to avoid it, I guess I have to go back to the highpoly and do some rebaking/remodeling.

ftsmith

Another update. I think I got the textures to a point where it's not disappointing. My next step is to rebake the high res and then redo my presentation.

ftsmith

Hi everyone.

I think after all this time, I'm finally done. I like the way it came out and it was a good learning experience. Depending on the feedback I may or may not go back to fix some things. Iv'e been working on this for waaaaayyyyyyy too long and I need to start on something else. 

I'll post the Artstation link with the 3D viewer after a couple days. I like to wait and see if I receive any major feedback.

ftsmith

Here is the artstation link if you want to see the 3D viewer and Textures:

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/BmVvvD

UnfamiliarMox

Looks good!

I think two things that could really help for your next project would be relaxing your edges a bit, and pushing your material definitions. 

Your edges are a bit sharp, so they're not going to catch as many nice highlights. It's a bit unintuitive, but especially for game assets, it's important to soften sharp edges a bit more than what would be "realistic." Besides lighting a bit better, it'll also preserve detail at lower MIP levels. 

The materials are a little bit homogeneous at the moment- it's hard to tell what's metal and what's polymer. For a gun with a polymer body like this, you're not going to see too much color change on wear areas unless it's been painted. Rather than modulating color on edges, you can adjust the roughness and add nicks and cuts to show wear and use. 

Over time, the matte finish of polymer tends to get polished smooth with use. Take a look at this photo. See how the rear of the stock is polished smooth where your face would be resting, and much shinier than other parts of the rifle.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/idf-tavor-.jpeg

These two also show the effect- only the metal parts which were painted have edges worn away to reveal another color (the metal underneath the paint). The polymer parts are worn smooth in some parts, and have some nicks and cuts that affect the normals, but the only color comes from dust and dirt that's been trapped in the crevices. You wouldn't really see color changes on the edges of the polymer.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Flickr_-_Israel_Defense_Forces_-_Pose_for_the_Camera.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Flickr_-_Israel_Defense_Forces_-_Nahal's_Special_Forces_Conduct_Firing_Drill_(11).jpg

Hope that helps!

ftsmith

Hell yeah dude that was beyond helpful. You blew my mind about the fundamental difference between wear and tear on polymer and wear and tear on metal. I never really thought about it like that. Ill keep what you said in mind for my future projects.

Alex_J

Hey, a bit late but I think it turned out pretty well. Definitely a big difference after you took the time to take in some critiques and rework the textures. Well done.

I think I mentioned before, but I still feel that the scale of the accessories is off. Not so much to matter to most viewers I imagine, but I'll just mention it again so that in future weapons it's there to consider.

If getting the exact measurement of items is not a possibility, I think using a characters hand and/or eye to gauge the proportions against may be helpful. You can see the peq-15 laser is about the size of a palm (a big manly mans palm), and the holosight is wider than the picantinny rail. I understand the TAR is shaped different but picatinny rails are all the same size. At least with NATO weapons like this.

But I don't just mention this because "accuracy for the sake of accuracy." I feel like chunkier accessories makes the gun look cooler overall. Especially bullpups like the TAR -- the entire design is about compactness.

ftsmith

Thanks for the feedback. I know one problem I had when making this was not having something used as reference for size. I think for the future I will make it more of an effort to get accurate sizes and scale. And if that's not enough, fudge a couple numbers to make it look cooler.