Compositing in Photoshop?

Elarionus

So I want to take my renders to the next level for my portfolio work, and many people have been recommending Photoshop to me. I just got Marmoset renderer, and while I'm struggling with it, my renders are starting to look better than the Unreal Engine or Substance Painter IRay renders I was using before.


The thing is, I know that there's more I can do beyond these rendering changes in Photoshop, especially when it comes to post processing. I know I won't be able to change the lighting as much as when I'm in a rendering engine, but I could fix up things like a vignette that's too strong or other items. I know the rendering engines like Octane and Marmoset provide a vignette tool to begin with, but I want to have the highest quality of renders (to get a job out of college, of course!).


I was hoping to get some beginners advice to building up my images to look better in photoshop. I've gone in there and I've found things like the camera RAW filter and other things I can add to it (in combination with hand painting in masks), but the main issue is, I don't know how it should look in the end. I can apply all sorts of cool effects, but I either go too far, not far enough, or going somewhere in the wrong places. Because of this, I often end up going back to the default image that comes out of Unreal, Marmoset, or Substance Painter. How can I start building up the abilities to get better at Photoshop compositing? My only experience with Photoshop is from a short foray (and a resoundingly unsuccessful one) into digital painting. I've experimented with things like the quick selection or magic wand tools during these times, but my knowledge of the tools is still probably considered a beginners point, especially when I compare myself to my professor, Rayce (he is known for a TV show of some sort, I don't know enough about it, but I'm planning on asking his help too).




TL : DR

1. I used to render in Painter, but now I use Marmoset.


2. I want to learn compositing in Photoshop to make my renders look better.

JordanN

Isn't post processing while using a real time renderer (i.e Marmoset) a bit overkill? Doing touch-ups to real time images is the definition of a bullshot. 

I'm aware that in Unreal Engine at least, there already exists post processing features to give you that extra cosmetic feedback (i.e depth of field, tone mapping, color grading). But if you're literally taking your marmoset renders into photoshop and making edits that were impossible to run in engine, then you can't call it game art anymore!

Ged

I dont think your process or tool set is the issue, I also dont think you need photoshop for the most part, Ive personally found that working in a game engine eg marmoset or unreal and then focusing on one really good reference(a still from a film is great for this) is a great way to learn how to post process properly. Its just tinkering about with all the tools at your disposal while in the game engine until it starts to look like the image you are referencing - that way you can do a comparison and know when youve gone too far or gone in the wrong colour direction etc.

Elarionus

JordanN said:

Isn't post processing while using a real time renderer (i.e Marmoset) a bit overkill? Doing touch-ups to real time images is the definition of a bullshot. 

I'm aware that in Unreal Engine at least, there already exists post processing features to give you that extra cosmetic feedback (i.e depth of field, tone mapping, color grading). But if you're literally taking your marmoset renders into photoshop and making edits that were impossible to run in engine, then you can't call it game art anymore!

I don't really want it to be game art, I just want it to look cool so that I can get a job. Take Greg Rassam's Far Cry 5 work on Artstation for example. None of those guns look that good in game. But the renders out of marmoset/octane/vray or whatever he's rendering in look incredible. Why is that? It's to showcase his work. That's why I want to get those better effects...it's what the professionals in the industry do.

poopipe

Tarting up in game screenshots with Photoshop is perfectly normal behaviour in the industry and nothing to be ashamed of - you'll be wanting to make it clear you've done it on your Artstation blurb or at an interview though. 

I'm not sure if marmoset supports it but UE4 / cryengine etc allow you to grab different render buffers/debug views that you can use to help with prettying up - much like the render passes you'd use in offline renderers. 

for inspiration look into how film shots are rendered and composited  - it's basically the same idea

Ged

Its fine to make some edits in photoshop but I imagine that most game artists will still achieve the bulk of the look of thier 3d art in whatever render engine they use wether thats realtime or not. I personally think art like those far cry 5 guns are probably being rendered in toolbag as he lists it in the description but with full quality hi rez textures and no compression and a good lighting setup and a big big image render (like 4x viewport size). Whereas in game the guns would probably have lower rez textures, the textures would be compressed and the lighting engine simpler and the render resolution much lower which is why they might not look as nice in game.

That said my personal favorite things to play with in photoshop if I need to do an extra pass of post process type work are 1. Lens correction settings (vignettes and chromatic aberration) 2. Gradient maps (set to overlay can be fun) 3. Colour curves as an adjustment layer

have fun!