In my experience, going to school to learn programs is a fools errand for the reason you listed above, technology always evolves. IN ADDITION to that, you can learn most of the essentials online. Especially if youve got free time like you say you do. SO if youre looking for advice, mine is to go to school to learn a skill, id est a fine art skill, or whatever compliments what youre trying to do. That'll afford you way more opportunities in the long run.
Some schools have life drawing lessons or workshops which I think is more efficient, then dropping money for an entire course.
I nearly did a 3 year program and that would have cost me $10,000 a year and you still would have to pay more money to buy equipment and textbooks needed for class. I feel relieved I dropped out in the first year.
Going off of my course here, Im at the beginning of my journey here tho, so read with caution:
Most of your concerns are true. A tad outdated methods, very little specialisation until the end, most of the beginning if you know the programs will be a breeze. There's a lot putting you up to struggle with the curriculum for personal-improvement-time. Some offer lifedrawing like JordanN said and self-learning hours after lectures, meant for you to work on improving and getting feedback from tutors, can't say however that most or few do that since they rarely advertise it.
The most value I've gotten this year is the stuff that made my skills improve, which was the personal feedback-sessions and me working from home. I don't regret the year spent here, but Im very skeptical of sticking around.
I'm confident there are universities and colleges out there that will give you what you need and are fantastic, if you do decide to go down that route, make sure you do your research and keep it from being a major economical drain as possible.
EDIT: what country do you want to work in? Getting a Visa in the US to work at any AAA studio is going to be a bitch without a degree/publications or a highly proven track record (other shipped AAA games).
No matter what you decide, here are some things to keep in mind:
-Get lots of feedback from reputable sources who will be honest with you. -Find someone in the industry who does the job you want to do, see if they're willing to have a dialogue and check out their folio: that's the quality level you need to hit. -Work your ass off, keep making stuff until you're *at* or close to that quality level -Quality > Quantity -Speed doesn't matter as much early on--spend the time, and don't try to be Tor Frick right out the gate
Too many of the kids I went to school with never did these things. They assumed they knew everything, that they knew how to break into the industry, and that everything would work out. Similarly, professors were never honest with them. Only five people out of my ~300 person graduating class in game design actually got a job in video games. That being said, there are a lot of benefits to going to school that aren't skill/career related.
Also, listen to the Character Art Podcast if you haven't yet. I know you're looking at Environment art/ level design(? careful here, there's a big difference between the two), but Gavin and crew get into the school vs self taught thing quite a bit.
In my experience, going to school to learn programs is a fools errand for the reason you listed above, technology always evolves. IN ADDITION to that, you can learn most of the essentials online. Especially if youve got free time like you say you do. SO if youre looking for advice, mine is to go to school to learn a skill, id est a fine art skill, or whatever compliments what youre trying to do. That'll afford you way more opportunities in the long run.
Thank you very much for these words! This is probably the best way to "as you said" compliment what I am trying to achieve!
A thought that just came to mind: Wouldn't it be great to take part in 3d modeling challenges and game jams? What is your take on that? If I win something like (best model in EPICs Modeling Contest 2017), could that be of interest to a studio? I know that they will only read a resume after they see a shining portfolio. But still, can that be of interest?
One way i started thinking, that helped me get better was. "why not?". SO in reference to your question, can you think of any reason not do participate in challenges? james? etc? Honestly dude, whatever makes you better , do that. At the end of the day getting better at art is not rocket science. It takes time, dedication, willingness to be critiqued, and very hard work, all to make some sweet art. Also if you havent seen the wiki, it has a lot of information regarding this topic. so check that out, I think youll gain a lot of information fast there.
There's no additional info I'll add that hasn't already been covered here except too say FWIW I think you've got a well thought out road-map going forward so yeah all the best for your future endeavours.
My working contract ends on the last of december, so I am still at work. Funnily enough I met a women in the HR department yesterday who said her boyfriend was working in a studio. It's one of the studios that worked on the title "Little Big Planet". I managed to get his number and will call this weekend and ask him a bit about his process and journey to where he is today.
Sincerely hope this avenue leads somewhere, plus here's a nice folio show thread on this board by artists who'd through the strength of their respective folios got hired:
I was thinking 3D modeling as the primary skill, Level Design as a second skill. I actually assumed that Environmental Art sort of fell under the category of 3D modeling. In smaller studios I believe that's the case. I really need to do more research on the structure of AAA studios. The heck, I know disney have light artists... Light artists, people placing lights and evolving that technology, so cool!
More and more Environment Art has started to develop a number of sub-categories.
Different studios break it up in different ways, but here are some of
the roles that fall under Environment Art.
Prop Artist – Pretty self
explanatory. Model and usually texture prop objects. This is one of
the easiest jobs for studios to outsource, so its a bit rare to find
a studio looking for someone to just do props.
Architecture Modeler – A number of
studios have roles for artists who specialize in modeling
architecture. This usually involves close work with level designers
so it tends to be done in house. A role like this is also more common
in a studio that does their level creation inside of Max or Maya.
Though it may also involve creating modular sets to be imported into
level editing software. The work involves creating large structures
that still look detailed.
Foliage Artist – A bit less common
but there a few projects have had artists entirely devoted to
creating plants. I've never seen a job posting for this, but it's
something people end up doing. There are a lot of tricks for getting
plants to look good in games.
Weapons/Vehicles Artist – Something
I'm seeing pop up more often lately. Usually a role for a very
skilled hard surface artist who will work on the most important
non-character pieces in the game. This is a weird out-lier that
almost isn't Environment Art but uses a lot of the same basic tools
and skills.
World Builder – Basically the set
dresser for the game. This person usually takes a basic blocked out
space from the design team and places props, sculpts terrain, etc to
create a finished looking area. Often this involves at least basic
lighting for interiors as well. The exact workflow depends on the
tool set used by a particular studio. Usually this will be level
editing software, thought a handful of studios do world building
through 3D packages like Maya.
Materials Artist (Surfacing Artist) –
This artist created materials to be used by other artists. May take
High-poly models from another artist and handle baking and final
texture creation. May also create tiling textures to hand off to
world builders and Architecture Artists. This used to be kind of rare
as a discrete specialization but it's becoming more common for
studios to have people who focus solely on materials.
These are some of the more common
specializations. Different studios may combine these roles in various
ways. Most environment artists in the industry have at least some
experience with all of these roles (or the skills they call for).
Take a look at a few job postings and
see how they line up with one or more of these categories. You'll
start to get a sense of what studios are looking for.
There is no reason why you can't be an all around person, if you happen to be good at multiple tasks well that is a positive and will atleast keep you employed as you can always rely on another skill to keep the income flowing; you never stop learning. School is irrelevant in my opinion unless you are becoming a doctor or a lawyer everything else is debatable.
You can start with tutorials and then go on with advanced courses to improve further. With tech now it , makes a whole lot easier to produce and learn faster.
I have a degree in Games Design but my parents have been not really supportive after I graduated, they have literally killed my dreams. I have to go to my dad's office everyday to deal with business which im entirely not interested in. I basically waste more than half my day doing nothing and when I get home I have to deal with other matters. Living in Pakistan as a 3D artist is pretty grim. I still want to make stuff and improve but I dont see if ill ever get out of this soon.
My parents are also the same like yours, let me tell you my experience. I listened to them for my choices, and ended up turning 28 to have a try at career change.
What i came to realise, your parents (and mine ofc) are not the most wise people in the world, and they don't know what is best for you. Of course they want the safe choice, which is having a job with a good amount of money. But if that does not satisfy you, then change it. Change everything in your life that does not make you happy, and work towards what makes you happy. This is life, your life.For your parents, its "better safe than sorry"
Hi dude. I'm 27 and in a situation similar to yours, mostly because of my own bad choices and issues, ending up in kind of a career limbo. I wanted to point out that you let out some signs of what really gets your flow going. When you had some free time, you didn't model, paint or animate, you did this:
I have created 2 games using .NET written from scratch. A Maze game with 25 levels and a timed puzzle game. I have been studying the technical aspect of texturing, mostly for UE4, using nodes to transform and manipulate a texture to the maximum. I have spent countless amounts of hours learning and trying different techniques about optimization and polycount budgets for projects sizes.
If this was one of those clickbait online tests, "What Kind of Game Dev are you?", the result would be...
You are technically inclined. You would be successful as a Game Programmer or a Technical Artist.
Just something for you to consider. I don't mean the above as in you *have* to make a career in that area, but it's something that we know you would be comfortable working with. Best of luck!
I changed my career when i was 25 and it can be a very scary process. I spent 6 years in the military and was promoted to a Staff Sergeant in the Air Force. I gave that up for a chance to work in the game industry. I got out knowing nothing, not even how to use Photoshop, but by the time I was 26 i got my first internship and when i was 28 my first job in the industry.
I did go to a university for game design where they just pushed together 3d modeling, programming, and production into one degree. Other than how to use photoshop or maya, I didn't learn alot as an artist. Most of my mentorship and learning came from internships, classes in cg society, CGMA, or pluralsight. There were some good things that I got from my degree though. I got my internship as a 3d artist because my professor recommended me to a company. If you have a hard time working with people than it can help you in that aspect. The friends I made while going to school really helped motivate me and vice versa. We pushed each other a lot and helped each other when it came to learning and improving as an artist. Also it gave me 2 years to work on my portfolio and improve.
I could of probably have done this when i was in the military on my spare time but it would of been a lot harder i think because I didn't even know where to look or who to ask. Heck, I didn't even know how to use Photoshop or what Maya was. Also school puts you in a learning mindset, something that can be hard after working 8 or 12 hour shifts.
Anyway, there is not right choice, just the one that works for you. As long as you have a clear goal, keep trying to improve as an artist, and hit that quality mark on your portfolio and you'll be good.
Replies
SO if youre looking for advice, mine is to go to school to learn a skill, id est a fine art skill, or whatever compliments what youre trying to do. That'll afford you way more opportunities in the long run.
I nearly did a 3 year program and that would have cost me $10,000 a year and you still would have to pay more money to buy equipment and textbooks needed for class. I feel relieved I dropped out in the first year.
Most of your concerns are true. A tad outdated methods, very little specialisation until the end, most of the beginning if you know the programs will be a breeze. There's a lot putting you up to struggle with the curriculum for personal-improvement-time. Some offer lifedrawing like JordanN said and self-learning hours after lectures, meant for you to work on improving and getting feedback from tutors, can't say however that most or few do that since they rarely advertise it.
The most value I've gotten this year is the stuff that made my skills improve, which was the personal feedback-sessions and me working from home. I don't regret the year spent here, but Im very skeptical of sticking around.
I'm confident there are universities and colleges out there that will give you what you need and are fantastic, if you do decide to go down that route, make sure you do your research and keep it from being a major economical drain as possible.
No matter what you decide, here are some things to keep in mind:
-Get lots of feedback from reputable sources who will be honest with you.
-Find someone in the industry who does the job you want to do, see if they're willing to have a dialogue and check out their folio: that's the quality level you need to hit.
-Work your ass off, keep making stuff until you're *at* or close to that quality level
-Quality > Quantity
-Speed doesn't matter as much early on--spend the time, and don't try to be Tor Frick right out the gate
Too many of the kids I went to school with never did these things. They assumed they knew everything, that they knew how to break into the industry, and that everything would work out. Similarly, professors were never honest with them. Only five people out of my ~300 person graduating class in game design actually got a job in video games. That being said, there are a lot of benefits to going to school that aren't skill/career related.
Also, listen to the Character Art Podcast if you haven't yet. I know you're looking at Environment art/ level design(? careful here, there's a big difference between the two), but Gavin and crew get into the school vs self taught thing quite a bit.
Also if you havent seen the wiki, it has a lot of information regarding this topic. so check that out, I think youll gain a lot of information fast there.
http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Game_Industry
PS please let me know if I misunderstood your question hahaa
There's no additional info I'll add that hasn't already been covered here except too say FWIW I think you've got a well thought out road-map going forward so yeah all the best for your future endeavours.
EDIT:
EliasWick wrote:
My working contract ends on the last of december, so I am still at work. Funnily enough I met a women in the HR department yesterday who said her boyfriend was working in a studio. It's one of the studios that worked on the title "Little Big Planet". I managed to get his number and will call this weekend and ask him a bit about his process and journey to where he is today.
Sincerely hope this avenue leads somewhere, plus here's a nice folio show thread on this board by artists who'd through the strength of their respective folios got hired:
http://polycount.com/discussion/187512/recently-hired-in-aaa-show-us-your-portfolio
And as a an aside LBP is one of my top ten favs and really Sackboy is the absolute bomb!...hence my forum nickname
More and more Environment Art has started to develop a number of sub-categories. Different studios break it up in different ways, but here are some of the roles that fall under Environment Art.
Prop Artist – Pretty self explanatory. Model and usually texture prop objects. This is one of the easiest jobs for studios to outsource, so its a bit rare to find a studio looking for someone to just do props.
Architecture Modeler – A number of studios have roles for artists who specialize in modeling architecture. This usually involves close work with level designers so it tends to be done in house. A role like this is also more common in a studio that does their level creation inside of Max or Maya. Though it may also involve creating modular sets to be imported into level editing software. The work involves creating large structures that still look detailed.
Foliage Artist – A bit less common but there a few projects have had artists entirely devoted to creating plants. I've never seen a job posting for this, but it's something people end up doing. There are a lot of tricks for getting plants to look good in games.
Weapons/Vehicles Artist – Something I'm seeing pop up more often lately. Usually a role for a very skilled hard surface artist who will work on the most important non-character pieces in the game. This is a weird out-lier that almost isn't Environment Art but uses a lot of the same basic tools and skills.
World Builder – Basically the set dresser for the game. This person usually takes a basic blocked out space from the design team and places props, sculpts terrain, etc to create a finished looking area. Often this involves at least basic lighting for interiors as well. The exact workflow depends on the tool set used by a particular studio. Usually this will be level editing software, thought a handful of studios do world building through 3D packages like Maya.
Materials Artist (Surfacing Artist) – This artist created materials to be used by other artists. May take High-poly models from another artist and handle baking and final texture creation. May also create tiling textures to hand off to world builders and Architecture Artists. This used to be kind of rare as a discrete specialization but it's becoming more common for studios to have people who focus solely on materials.
These are some of the more common specializations. Different studios may combine these roles in various ways. Most environment artists in the industry have at least some experience with all of these roles (or the skills they call for).
Take a look at a few job postings and see how they line up with one or more of these categories. You'll start to get a sense of what studios are looking for.
Good Luck
I have a degree in Games Design but my parents have been not really supportive after I graduated, they have literally killed my dreams. I have to go to my dad's office everyday to deal with business which im entirely not interested in. I basically waste more than half my day doing nothing and when I get home I have to deal with other matters.
Living in Pakistan as a 3D artist is pretty grim. I still want to make stuff and improve but I dont see if ill ever get out of this soon.
(Sorry for hijacking your thread)
What i came to realise, your parents (and mine ofc) are not the most wise people in the world, and they don't know what is best for you. Of course they want the safe choice, which is having a job with a good amount of money. But if that does not satisfy you, then change it. Change everything in your life that does not make you happy, and work towards what makes you happy. This is life, your life.For your parents, its "better safe than sorry"
I wanted to point out that you let out some signs of what really gets your flow going.
When you had some free time, you didn't model, paint or animate, you did this: If this was one of those clickbait online tests, "What Kind of Game Dev are you?", the result would be...
You are technically inclined. You would be successful as a Game Programmer or a Technical Artist.
Just something for you to consider. I don't mean the above as in you *have* to make a career in that area, but it's something that we know you would be comfortable working with. Best of luck!
I did go to a university for game design where they just pushed together 3d modeling, programming, and production into one degree. Other than how to use photoshop or maya, I didn't learn alot as an artist. Most of my mentorship and learning came from internships, classes in cg society, CGMA, or pluralsight. There were some good things that I got from my degree though. I got my internship as a 3d artist because my professor recommended me to a company. If you have a hard time working with people than it can help you in that aspect. The friends I made while going to school really helped motivate me and vice versa. We pushed each other a lot and helped each other when it came to learning and improving as an artist. Also it gave me 2 years to work on my portfolio and improve.
I could of probably have done this when i was in the military on my spare time but it would of been a lot harder i think because I didn't even know where to look or who to ask. Heck, I didn't even know how to use Photoshop or what Maya was. Also school puts you in a learning mindset, something that can be hard after working 8 or 12 hour shifts.
Anyway, there is not right choice, just the one that works for you. As long as you have a clear goal, keep trying to improve as an artist, and hit that quality mark on your portfolio and you'll be good.