Zbrush 4R8

Alemja

Most of use are probably paying attention to E3 right now, but while that's going on Pixologic released Zbrush 4R8
http://pixologic.com/get-zbrush-4r8/

New features: http://pixologic.com/features/new-features.php

EDIT: Now with a feature video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-g4MtBjKP0

Brian "Panda" Choi

Definitely appreciated updates.

lotet

yep, its silly though, im mostly exited about continuous strokes and proper gizmos. 

to be fair the booleans and deformers looked pretty cool as well.

bounchfx

nothing slily about that. Lots of neat stuff in this one. Thanks for the heads up, downloaded!

Zack Maxwell

This is great overall. The new 3D alpha tools make me even more disappointed by the lack of true dynamic topology, though. As one would expect, they require a very dense mesh

Indik

Grimwolf said:

This is great overall. The new 3D alpha tools make me even more disappointed by the lack of true dynamic topology, though. As one would expect, they require a very dense mesh

True, but not a deal breaker. There`s easy workaround, as always in zbrush: mask desired part of the mesh, invert mask, subdivide (locally). Now you have dense mesh only where you need/want -) 
Make a macro and hotkey it if used often.
Dynamic booleans are just awesome. 

igi

imo this is the most substancial release since they introduced dynamesh.

Spoon

This release is amazing! Feels a bit alien, but so nice features

bounchfx

okay so like, does anyone know how the hell to get the old Transpose line back? I like the new thing, but, I really want to be able to use the transpose line as well.

Secondly, how da hek boolean? mine is greyed out

edit: ok, got the boolean thing. You gotta turn on Live Boolean first in the render tab before it lets you. Also, Holy shit this is amazing. 

This website breaks down a lot of the new stuff really well: http://www.zbrushguides.com/zbrush-4r8-is-out/

rory

bounchfx - you can get the old transpose line functionality back by unclicking the gizmo 3d icon, which is at the top next to move,scale,rotate icons.

For me this is the best release in a long time. It's great.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

bounchfx

you are a god waggle

@rory, this is great info! Found it in Transform>right above Edit. Thanks guys!

Kevin Albers

What a great set of new features! A proper gizmo and live booleans and vdm brushes and and....

Elithenia

I heard the fbx export is bugged?
(haven't gotten in yet, need to have fbx working )

Torch

Don't forget the moving several subtools at one time without Tranpose master, w00t

ExcessiveZero

I have always hated the tranpose tool, at last we are free.

ahtiandr

I really hope they will add ability to bevel those live boolean intersection edges like in modo meshfusion where you can control the strips width.

thomasp

oh well, it only took one production model with textures, subtools and layers applied to make the fancy boolean process crash.

when it looks to good to be true, it most certainly is... business as usual then.

at least it didn't ruin the whole session, zbrush remained working.

beefaroni

ahtiandr said:

I really hope they will add ability to bevel those live boolean intersection edges like in modo meshfusion where you can control the strips width.

It does give you Polygroups to work with so there could be some clever things you can do to get edge width like you could before. Obviously not quite as nice as typing in a number. 

Indik

ahtiandr said:

I really hope they will add ability to bevel those live boolean intersection edges like in modo meshfusion where you can control the strips width.

here are few things you could do with sharp boolean edges
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSKwyj2VKKk

btw, has modo`s mesh fusion become stable? The only time I had a chance to try it, I wasn`t able to substract few simple spheres from a cube without a crash. But this was a long time ago, so things must`ve changed since.

Torch

I don't want to piss on everyone's cornflakes...  I like the hard surface tools in ZB, but I still wonder how 'efficient' they are  in a pipeline, even now with all the updated tools. I don't think it's ever going to overtake precision modeling methods, e.g. what happens if you need to make big changes to a hard surface piece based on a client's feedback? I feel like having those edits on a modifier stack, for example, to roll back or change would still be faster. 

Having said that, what Pixologic has right now is impressive. I'd probably be more willing to use the hard surface tools in ZB for concepting or chunky stylized work where you could be a little more liberal with the surfaces/edge weighting, than say a more realistic project. 

Zack Maxwell

Torch said:

I don't want to piss on everyone's cornflakes...  I like the hard surface tools in ZB, but I still wonder how 'efficient' they are  in a pipeline, even now with all the updated tools. I don't think it's ever going to overtake precision modeling methods, e.g. what happens if you need to make big changes to a hard surface piece based on a client's feedback? I feel like having those edits on a modifier stack, for example, to roll back or change would still be faster. 

Having said that, what Pixologic has right now is impressive. I'd probably be more willing to use the hard surface tools in ZB for concepting or chunky stylized work where you could be a little more liberal with the surfaces/edge weighting, than say a more realistic project. 

The new Boolean tools are nondestructive, which goes a long way. You also don't have to create the completed model before getting feedback.

As far as I know, most hard surface artists using ZBrush create a quick and rough "concept" model first that they can easily make changes to, and then clean everything up after the design is finalized.

Indik

Torch said:

I don't want to piss on everyone's cornflakes...  I like the hard surface tools in ZB, but I still wonder how 'efficient' they are  in a pipeline, even now with all the updated tools. I don't think it's ever going to overtake precision modeling methods, e.g. what happens if you need to make big changes to a hard surface piece based on a client's feedback? 

In an ideal classic pipeline, you`ll have all concepts fixed and approved beforehand and you just have to sit and precicely model.
But, there are times when you don`t have a fixed concept and you have to do some research part in 3d. Booleans prove to be extremely effective at this. I`ve used 3ds max booleans + dynamesh + polish many times for that purpose. Now Zbrush seems to have a much more flexible solution.

musashidan

These live boolean tools are great, certainly. But, I'd say they're more suited to 3D print work and concepting. Creating production hard-surface assets in 3dsMax(for instance) is still going to be more efficient. No manual retopo step - which is a huge timesaver - and depending on what method you use you can derive high/low both simultaneously and non-destructively.

The fact that N-gons are illegal topo in ZB is one of the biggest obstacles to creating production hard-surface. Also, dynamic subdiv not affecting the intersection edgeloops and leaving razor sharp edges is a disappointment for me. Yes, there are hacks and workarounds but, I really would have liked to see a dynamic fillet based on creasing or something.

Ruflse

After testing the new live booleans and seeing the crazy things you can do like creating booleans inside other booleans I wish there was some magic way to retopo hard surface and get a solid lowpoly like it was made with boxmodelling in Max. I know it's not gonna happen (or at least anytime soon), but updates like this remember me how amazing that would be

bounchfx

Great video Indik, thanks for sharing.

So far my biggest gripe with the new gizmo is that it doesn't seem to work or respond properly with symmetry. Some things work, but other functions dont, and I have to switch back to Transpose to do certain movements. Hope it gets fixed soon.

thomasp

http://docs.pixologic.com/user-guide/3d-modeling/modeling-basics/gizmo-3d/deformers/
"The Deformers will only work with models that don’t have subdivision levels."

gripe++ !!

if you can do this flawlessly with an external application on subdiv level 0 and then just reimport and keep all subdiv levels and layers - why can't Z do it natively?

CreativeSheep

The U.I still remains the most horrendous thing about zBrush.

Chimp

CreativeSheep said:

The U.I still remains the most horrendous thing about zBrush.

yeah and its overall workflow. may be the best sculptor we have but it's horrendously designed (designed as they went). Core should have been a new front end / workflow

musashidan

I'm one of those who thinks the UI is great. Piss easy to customise and essential that you do.

musashidan

@thomasp you can use the Freeze subdivs function.

kanga

I reckon the zmodeler is an amazing addition. Having modeled in Max for a long time just testing the tools in ZBrush opened up possibilities. Tests resulted in forms that were unexpected. I modeled this watch in ZBrush, and just as a test kept the entire thing there just to see what it could do. The cut outs around the watch frame for instance, would have been pretty difficult to make in max, but not in ZBrush.

I'm not sure what would stop you from working with the ZB modeler. Personally its just trying a different approach. It is very different to standard poly modelling. Personally its just what I'm used to and stepping out of that limitation every now and then opens up a whole new selection of techniques. There are still things I use Max for like final retopo, uvs even basic blockouts to scale, but I seem to use ZB for more of the process as time goes on. The watch was modeled in ZB 4R7, textured and rendered in keyshot. I'm really looking forward to messing with non destructive booleans and the other new features in 4R8.

Torch

Kanga - looks nice, you should consider doing a tutorial series on Gumroad or something with that similar to the Mike Pav vids, I think a lot of people would benefit from it.... and now I realise I'm the 'tutorial plz' guy :P

thomasp

musashidan said:

@thomasp you can use the Freeze subdivs function.

just looked it up and - it apparently triggers a reprojection when you unfreeze again? i try to avoid that whenever possible. in this case in particular it can easily be avoided by leaving Z and feeding it a deformed mesh later on.

RE: UI. i have no issue with it as such (as long as auto collapsing palettes is turned off) but the new font is an eyesore - narrow, anti-aliased and looks even smaller than before. had to turn up button size a good deal to make it easily legible on this 27 inch screen.
now i effectively have less screen real estate available for the canvas than before...

musashidan

@thomasp Yes, it reproject alright. But most of the recent hard-surface tools work best with no physical subdiv levels.


I have my UI set up in a way that I visit the palettes as little as possible. Or turn it off as you say or shift click to open multiple.

The new 'mini-lightbox' for imm brushes is annoying as the text it's illegible on the tool not highlighted and even if I disable it in favour of the 'M' hotkey for imm brushes it doesn't save with my UI and I have to disable it on every startup.

@kanga nice job on the watch. I agree. I love modeling with Zmodeler but for high/low hard surface  production assets Max modeling is simply a more efficient workflow most of the work.

thomasp

well the deformers could be handy for anything really, not just hard surface. this way however it means continuing roundtrips to the 3D app and back and another icon best ignored in Z.

anyway i noticed that 4R6 that i keep around for compatibility with older projects is no longer starting up after running 4R8. probably related to some newer, incompatible files located in the temp ZBrushData folder. i tried removing all the quicksave and *.mem files but no luck so far. anyone knows if this folder can be nuked safely?

killing just the quicksaves did the trick when switcing between 4R6 and 4R7 on the same machine but now it seems there's some new incompatibilities. ideally i'd just like to specifiy the temp directory per app but it seems it's not user configurable nor possible to do with a symbolic link in this case, since they both point to the same external directory.

edit: nuking the directory would kill the startup document which is no longer stored in ZStartup. and 4R6 does start up after you unearth some warning dialogs but they don't display unless you alt tab into the process, click them away, rinse and repeat.

kanga

@musashidan thanks.
Yeah I agree. With work you dont want to be experimenting,..... too much.

@Torch thanks. Sounds like an idea!

Spoon

CreativeSheep said:

The U.I still remains the most horrendous thing about zBrush.

Then change it?
It's so easy to customize.

Zack Maxwell

Spoon said:

CreativeSheep said:

The U.I still remains the most horrendous thing about zBrush.

Then change it?
It's so easy to customize.

Yeah. I can understand being upset about the controls, but the UI itself is so heavily customizable

Octo

musashidan said:

I'm one of those who thinks the UI is great. Piss easy to customise and essential that you do.

So the UI is great, but it's essential that you change it..logic? Ideally you wouldn't need to change it.

Zelfit

New lazy mouse is a beast. Two days ago I needed to make a lot of weld seams. With new straight lines it became much easier.

Indik

Octo said:

musashidan said:

I'm one of those who thinks the UI is great. Piss easy to customise and essential that you do.

So the UI is great, but it's essential that you change it..logic? Ideally you wouldn't need to change it.

Well, everybody has different taste and workflow, so it`s close to impossible to make a complex app with spot-on UI for everyone. I personally find Zbrush UI quite likable - when you get into it. Its very simple and categorization is excellent. Those parts that I don`t like are easily customizable into my own menus. I know very little other apps that have such simple approach to UI customization (e.g. Autodesk and Foundry`s software are horrible in this regard). 

jRocket

I love ZBrush but I always found the customization options to be a bit superficial. Sure, you can change the colors of the UI and move buttons around, but most of the keyboard shortcuts are hard-coded. Blender or Maya both give you more power in that regard, especially with scripting.

The new transform manipulators are good step in the right direction as far as UI goes. I hated the transpose tool.

musashidan

Octo said:

So the UI is great, but it's essential that you change it..logic? Ideally you wouldn't need to change it.

Logic?.......Pixo.....logic. This is a bit naive. Who doesn't customise their UIs in a 3d Dcc?

Pirgo

Octo said:

musashidan said:

I'm one of those who thinks the UI is great. Piss easy to customise and essential that you do.

So the UI is great, but it's essential that you change it..logic? Ideally you wouldn't need to change it.

You wouldn't need to change it if it would be Skype or some such relatively single use app. I customize UI in almost every app I use, from foobar, through Total commander, over Photoshop to Maya.

There isn't one single use for apps like Maya or Zbrush. Some user might be only into organic sculpting, someone else into specifically look dev etc. The ability to customize UI is necessity, not weakness.

You can rearrange menus and buttons, make custom menus for faster workflow in Zbrush etc. But I guess you don't actually use Zbrush at all.

lotet

jRocket said:

I love ZBrush but I always found the customization options to be a bit superficial. Sure, you can change the colors of the UI and move buttons around, but most of the keyboard shortcuts are hard-coded. Blender or Maya both give you more power in that regard, especially with scripting.

The new transform manipulators are good step in the right direction as far as UI goes. I hated the transpose tool.

 Not sure I understand what you mean, sure, things like left mouse button is hardcoded but you can change/add a hotkey command for literary every button there is. what is it that your missing?
there is also the option to record macros and you can write plugins/scripts if your looking for even more advanced functionality.

personally I think zbrush has one of the most freeing and best UI customizations systems there is.

Bal

I'm really impressed with this update.
Usually I only get 1, at best 2 new features that will interest me in an update, but Lazy-Snap, Live Boolean, VDMs and the new Gizmo (yeah, that one should have been added yeeaaaars ago) will all greatly improve my workflow.

That chisel brush is sexy as hell.

ExcessiveZero

Only got round to playing with it last night I am so impressed by live booleans having a little trouble with Go-z to modo but all the features are pretty much blowing my mind about now, and the gizmo is truly a gift from the gods.

musashidan

I must be one of the only people who is having a hard time getting my brain to adopt the new gismo. Transpose line is second nature to me. I think it's genius. It just feels weird having a 'normal ' gismo in ZB. The way it sits there in screen space is freaking me out!!

Bal

musashidan, Transpose line is still there, I think both have their uses (many people complain about Transpose, but it's quite powerful once you've figured it out). A regular gizmo just feels so much simpler for 80% of what I used to do with the Transpose line though.

Ged

played with 4R8 a bit on the weekend. There are some features in the videos that I cant figure out in the actual app, like how do you get the draw straight lines feature to work? how do you chisel lines without them overlapping and creating big dents in the overlaps? whats the best way to create a subtool out of the liveboolean parts? do you guys just keep all the live parts in folders or something?

really enjoying the new gizmo and the live booleans are a quick way to bash out a concept shape