If you make a generalization you have no clue which object it is. Its not that hard of a concept. You don't know if the object would be fine with 10k instead of 100k, you don't know if you should not pay more than 1500 for a ship or a bubble gum, you don't know how much VRMA their budget is, you don't know how good it needs to look, you don't know what they are doing and how their pipeline is, so stop making general assumptions, because there are no norms you can base that on. There is no norm for how to use your texture, and there is no norm how your project should be, so you can not say how people have use their textures. This is so basic, I really don't know what to say further.
Also you do realize that 3D cameras can go closer and further away from objects ?
you can use a 4k map for a whole environment or for a small coin, kinda sounds like someone misunderstood and thought you guys were talking about HD vs ultra HD tv's or something.
But what I'm guessing some/someone that posted meant was that if a basic well uv puzzled prop had a 2k texture, it wouldn't really be worth to push it to 4k, as the gains in look vs cost wouldn't be worth it, but even that also depends on a lot of things.
If you make a generalization you have no clue which object it is. Its not that hard of a concept. You don't know if the object would be fine with 10k instead of 100k, you don't know if you should not pay more than 1500 for a ship or a bubble gum, you don't know how much VRMA their budget is, you don't know how good it needs to look, you don't know what they are doing and how their pipeline is, so stop making general assumptions, because there are no norms you can base that on. There is no norm for how to use your texture, and there is no norm how your project should be, so you can not say how people have use their textures. This is so basic, I really don't know what to say further.
Also you do realize that 3D cameras can go closer and further away from objects ?
Who goes into production without a clue? Sure there might be a greybox phase and establishing a target visual benchmark, but if you are in actual production you tend to have budgets and an idea what things are used for.
I am not generalizing, once at least a 1:1 detail pixel to screen pixel is achieved increasing resolution doesn't make a noticeable difference. Yes 3D cameras can go closer to objects, but there are places the cameras will never go and games aren't designed for dipshits that spend time staring at walls up close. There are also texture filtering issues but that is balanced out by the fact that games tend to be in motion.
I'll leave this here because I can't really make myself any clearer.
If you make a generalization you have no clue which object it is. Its not that hard of a concept. You don't know if the object would be fine with 10k instead of 100k, you don't know if you should not pay more than 1500 for a ship or a bubble gum, you don't know how much VRMA their budget is, you don't know how good it needs to look, you don't know what they are doing and how their pipeline is, so stop making general assumptions, because there are no norms you can base that on. There is no norm for how to use your texture, and there is no norm how your project should be, so you can not say how people have use their textures. This is so basic, I really don't know what to say further.
Also you do realize that 3D cameras can go closer and further away from objects ?
Who goes into production without a clue? Sure there might be a greybox phase and establishing a target visual benchmark, but if you are in actual production you tend to have budgets and an idea what things are used for.
I am not generalizing, once at least a 1:1 detail pixel to screen pixel is achieved increasing resolution doesn't make a noticeable difference. Yes 3D cameras can go closer to objects, but there are places the cameras will never go and games aren't designed for dipshits that spend time staring at walls up close. There are also texture filtering issues but that is balanced out by the fact that games tend to be in motion.
I'll leave this here because I can't really make myself any clearer.
I think the logical assumption from the very beginning was that you were referring to a 2k and 4k texture each occupying an equal amount of fully visible screen space. Some people are just going nuts about semantics for no good reason.
I referred to ZACDs statement, Madcow keeps talking about very different things. All I wanted to point out was a logical thought problem, that implied 1+1 is fine but 2 is not, even though its exactly the same in the end.
Or one could pay almost as much as much for a 980TI right now... The US price doesn't include any sales tax and the reason the card costs that much in many of these other countries is due to local taxes like VAT and import duties, that isn't exactly Nvidia's fault.
There is one seller at ebay here in Europe, for 890 euro or 1000 dollar, which is way too much, but that sounds like early buyers ripoff and not the final price
What stresses me more is that there are seemingly no custom cooling designs out, Asus and the likes all seem to sell the founders edition, but the founders edition has cooling problems
as i suspected - a 980 ti/titan that consumes less power than those (and my current one, from the looks of it) and sells for about half the 980's price. sign me up (in a month or three).
and as usual - the promised performance revolution will have to wait just a little longer.
decided If I was going to wait no longer! as skipped a few to many generations before pulling the upgrade trigger already. ( real antsy considering I have been patient on a tri SLI Fermi setup since 2010 ) And SLI seems to be falling to the wayside with anything above 2 cards with new releases lately ( according to NVidia the feedback they get suggests the trend will continue. So sad, I have had very good scaling experience with SLI over these past 6 years ) For the most part it seems that when SLI is criticized as obsolete, ineffective and buggy/unsupported the other flavor of SLI isn't considered?? ( wsgf.com cause wider is better... or if god did not intend 3 monitors he would not have given us peripheral vision ) Because even without a general 3d performance boost it seems that SLI in Surround usually sees an obvious benefit making the difference between playable or not with my aging rig. But beside the obvious finfet speed increase Pascal's "simultaneous multi-projection" not only corrects the viewport display compensating for the angle distortion but renders the scene in a single pass for all 3 screens possibly preventing the added setup and geometry duplication! surround boost without needing the new high bandwidth sli! ( HBSLI )
I think the simultaneous multi projection is also leveraged by stereoscopic3D and VR as well correcting peripheral angle distortion to look "correct" and for the duplicated workload benefit. Not sure but I imagine that Ansel would probably benefit as well? Supposedly everything still has the overhead of the shading for all screens so scaling would not be 3 to 1 but the heavier the geometry in a scene the more SM-P is supposed to help.
It's a madhouse! everyman for themselves... I have been seriously butt hurt today! very red sore icy hot cream right on the tenderest puckered up parts butt hurt today.
Wouldn't be so bad when I decided to take the shaft of my founders pricing which I chalk up to my contribution to further the developments going on at NVidia. And supposedly the components and materials that have gone into a reference card are of a higher quality $$ that NVidia reasons: keeping a higher standard for a reference model has reached the point where price needs to be offset accordingly or at least during initial release. That would be fine considering I decided to swallow and gargle to that line of reasoning. But then how does EVGA put a preorder out today with a higher clocked FTW edition at a cheaper price?
( that msrp price is still nowhere to be seen either? )
I imagine, to reach that clock speed that EVGA did not slouch on quality either? But since my impatience has me standing in line for the Kool-Aid I decide to make sure the brick and mortar ( microcenter ) is not going to pull any fast ones. I called them last night to make certain about the hours and whether they were going to throw any special event hours to facilitate midnight or early openings the next day. I am assured that nope. the doors will open at 10 on the nose like every other day? screw that I get there a lil past 9 just in case! And people are strolling in and out like the store has been open for awhile. "Yep, we opened early for the event and even had a line of 15 for the 15 cards we had in stock. giggle, giggle". ( yep, butt is hurting... brick n mortar butt hurt ) So I rush to Best Buy that is next door and was supposed to open at 10 as well. The "geeks" there are so happy they got theirs first thing in the morning they admitted as much to my face right before telling me every location in my area was sold out. Screw it. ( online resignation butt hurt ) sold out everywhere online? ( unless I wanna get it from dealers heroin style on Amazon for $1200 ) there is my Canadian neighbors at NCIX who are selling at $900 US dollars ( international butt hurt )
But good ole EVGA with their own online store has stock! So I decide that I am going to be patient and preorder at EVGA a boss FTW higher clocked card that is cheaper than the butt hurt edition ( founders ) Just then the internet explodes and kills my butt and apparently EVGA's overcrowded servers. But I did manage to hit that pre-order button! I see it in my cart! Hurray! Go to checkout! ( and the internet explodes and kills my butt ) reload! ( proceed to exploding butts )
reload! ( proceed to exploding butts )
reload! ( proceed to exploding butts ) RELOAD! R E L O A D ! ! !
my cart finally opens! Hurray! my cart finally opens on the EU.EVGA.com/products/butthurt/cart.jsp??? and a message pops up telling me that: "my butt is not possible in the EU" and removes my order from the cart
and then the internet goes boom
reload! ( proceed to exploding butts )
etc. etc. etc.. interminably ad infinitum
loaded finally... and my cart is empty. loaded and everything is sold out, except the butt hurt edition for the grand butt hurt total of: $699! at least shipping is free with good ole EVGA? after all we have resigned ourselves to taking it all the way to the tender hilt? we should at least expect dinner and a cab ride home free of charge right?
nope. no free shipping
I have an empty bank account no self respect for my impatient ass, but at least I have a graphic card coming in 4 to 5 days and a tub of ice cream in the freezer. now the wait? for an itch I can't scratch just yet. damn, now my ass is itching!
The FTW edition has a higher clock and is $20 cheaper. EVGA sales just told me they expect more before availability in 2 weeks and giving more folks the option to still preorder. EVGA's base model is listed at only $609 ( would it kill them to simply match the quoted $599 msrp considering they are not initially offering free shipping? ) And will also become available. almost $100 cuz I can't wait another two weeks!
My order has not been confirmed yet so I am anguishing over canceling...
I enjoy watercooling my gear and some seem to think that water bling will only be available for founders at first.
A day one fix... for founder edition vrm circuitry throttling your performance under thermal loads:
BLING! EK's full cover waterblock for founder edition reference pcb cards will probably reach my door before my card since EVGA is taking off till tuesday for the memorial weekend and my credit card did not get confirmed till today.
( the timing, stock, pricing and corporate greed/arrogance is making me prematurely grey )
Replies
Also you do realize that 3D cameras can go closer and further away from objects ?
But what I'm guessing some/someone that posted meant was that if a basic well uv puzzled prop had a 2k texture, it wouldn't really be worth to push it to 4k, as the gains in look vs cost wouldn't be worth it, but even that also depends on a lot of things.
I am not generalizing, once at least a 1:1 detail pixel to screen pixel is achieved increasing resolution doesn't make a noticeable difference. Yes 3D cameras can go closer to objects, but there are places the cameras will never go and games aren't designed for dipshits that spend time staring at walls up close. There are also texture filtering issues but that is balanced out by the fact that games tend to be in motion.
I'll leave this here because I can't really make myself any clearer.
Some people are just going nuts about semantics for no good reason.
Semantics, maybe, lets leave it at that.
What stresses me more is that there are seemingly no custom cooling designs out, Asus and the likes all seem to sell the founders edition, but the founders edition has cooling problems
790 Euro in europe, only founders editions in sight
GTX 1070 scores are in
and as usual - the promised performance revolution will have to wait just a little longer.
it's a madhouse! every man for themselves...
decided If I was going to wait no longer! as skipped a few to many generations before pulling the upgrade trigger already.
( real antsy considering I have been patient on a tri SLI Fermi setup since 2010 )
And SLI seems to be falling to the wayside with anything above 2 cards with new releases lately
( according to NVidia the feedback they get suggests the trend will continue. So sad, I have had very good scaling experience with SLI over these past 6 years )
For the most part it seems that when SLI is criticized as obsolete, ineffective and buggy/unsupported the other flavor of SLI isn't considered??
( wsgf.com cause wider is better... or if god did not intend 3 monitors he would not have given us peripheral vision )
Because even without a general 3d performance boost it seems that SLI in Surround usually sees an obvious benefit making the difference between playable or not with my aging rig.
But beside the obvious finfet speed increase Pascal's "simultaneous multi-projection" not only corrects the viewport display compensating for the angle distortion but renders the scene in a single pass for all 3 screens possibly preventing the added setup and geometry duplication! surround boost without needing the new high bandwidth sli! ( HBSLI )
I think the simultaneous multi projection is also leveraged by stereoscopic3D and VR as well correcting peripheral angle distortion to look "correct" and for the duplicated workload benefit. Not sure but I imagine that Ansel would probably benefit as well?
Supposedly everything still has the overhead of the shading for all screens so scaling would not be 3 to 1 but the heavier the geometry in a scene the more SM-P is supposed to help.
oh yea...
It's a madhouse! everyman for themselves...
I have been seriously butt hurt today! very red sore icy hot cream right on the tenderest puckered up parts butt hurt today.
Wouldn't be so bad when I decided to take the shaft of my founders pricing which I chalk up to my contribution to further the developments going on at NVidia.
And supposedly the components and materials that have gone into a reference card are of a higher quality $$ that NVidia reasons: keeping a higher standard for a reference model has reached the point where price needs to be offset accordingly or at least during initial release.
That would be fine considering I decided to swallow and gargle to that line of reasoning.
But then how does EVGA put a preorder out today with a higher clocked FTW edition at a cheaper price?
( that msrp price is still nowhere to be seen either? )
I imagine, to reach that clock speed that EVGA did not slouch on quality either?
But since my impatience has me standing in line for the Kool-Aid I decide to make sure the brick and mortar ( microcenter ) is not going to pull any fast ones.
I called them last night to make certain about the hours and whether they were going to throw any special event hours to facilitate midnight or early openings the next day.
I am assured that nope. the doors will open at 10 on the nose like every other day?
screw that I get there a lil past 9 just in case!
And people are strolling in and out like the store has been open for awhile.
"Yep, we opened early for the event and even had a line of 15 for the 15 cards we had in stock. giggle, giggle".
( yep, butt is hurting... brick n mortar butt hurt )
So I rush to Best Buy that is next door and was supposed to open at 10 as well.
The "geeks" there are so happy they got theirs first thing in the morning they admitted as much to my face right before telling me every location in my area was sold out.
Screw it.
( online resignation butt hurt )
sold out everywhere online?
( unless I wanna get it from dealers heroin style on Amazon for $1200 )
there is my Canadian neighbors at NCIX who are selling at $900 US dollars
( international butt hurt )
But good ole EVGA with their own online store has stock!
So I decide that I am going to be patient and preorder at EVGA a boss FTW higher clocked card that is cheaper than the butt hurt edition ( founders )
Just then the internet explodes and kills my butt and apparently EVGA's overcrowded servers.
But I did manage to hit that pre-order button! I see it in my cart! Hurray!
Go to checkout! ( and the internet explodes and kills my butt )
reload! ( proceed to exploding butts )
reload! ( proceed to exploding butts )
reload! ( proceed to exploding butts )
RELOAD!
R E L O A D ! ! !
my cart finally opens! Hurray!
my cart finally opens on the EU.EVGA.com/products/butthurt/cart.jsp???
and a message pops up telling me that: "my butt is not possible in the EU" and
removes my order from the cart
and then the internet goes boom
reload! ( proceed to exploding butts )
etc. etc. etc.. interminably ad infinitum
loaded finally...
and my cart is empty.
loaded and everything is sold out, except the butt hurt edition for the grand butt hurt total of: $699!
at least shipping is free with good ole EVGA? after all we have resigned ourselves to taking it all the way to the tender hilt?
we should at least expect dinner and a cab ride home free of charge right?
nope. no free shipping
I have an empty bank account no self respect for my impatient ass,
but at least I have a graphic card coming in 4 to 5 days and a tub of ice cream in the freezer.
now the wait? for an itch I can't scratch just yet. damn, now my ass is itching!
The FTW edition has a higher clock and is $20 cheaper. EVGA sales just told me they expect more before availability in 2 weeks and giving more folks the option to still preorder. EVGA's base model is listed at only $609
( would it kill them to simply match the quoted $599 msrp considering they are not initially offering free shipping? )
And will also become available. almost $100 cuz I can't wait another two weeks!
My order has not been confirmed yet so I am anguishing over canceling...
I enjoy watercooling my gear and some seem to think that water bling will only be available for founders at first.
Awesome explanation of simultaneous multi projection architecture by NVidia's Tom Peterson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq8T42ymiBw
http://videocardz.com/60496/custom-geforce-gtx-1080-roundup
for founder edition vrm circuitry throttling your performance under thermal loads:
BLING!
EK's full cover waterblock for founder edition reference pcb cards will probably reach my door before my card since EVGA is taking off till tuesday for the memorial weekend and my credit card did not get confirmed till today.
( the timing, stock, pricing and corporate greed/arrogance is making me prematurely grey )