Dominance War VI
interpolator
http://gameartisans.org/dominancewar/6/index.php
They're back with a new contest! Seems it's going to be kick-started this time? I know there was a lot of drama with polycount specifically last time DW was around (2011?!). I don't really remember what all that was about though.
Edit: Drama breakdown as explained by Gav http://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2440474/#Comment_2440474
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On the other hand, i can't wait to participate and watch other people's entries! Should be very rewarding.
Also bizarre judge choices. Looking at the concept art guys, they aren't exactly industry experts.
Seems like sponsors would be a better way to go, Kickstarter seems like an awful lot to ask of people for a contest.
I'm not sure of all the details, but it seemed like the effort to monetize this failed the first time- didn't they have a fiasco where they retained the rights to your entry, so they could sell posters of your work....
Also, did the Unearthly Challenge winners ever get their prizes...?
I would be leery
Exactly. The irony being that the high development costs involved to get complex portal websites up and running are basically wasted since people will likely check the results on Facebook and Artstation anyways.
This is the professional reason: http://polycount.com/discussion/81995/polycount-is-out-of-the-dominance-war-contest-doing-our-own-contest/p1
The unprofessional one, that I can't find the exact threads on but am positive they exist here - just need more time to sift through old forum posts - is that the leadership of DW at the time proposed, and attempted to, sell artists work without their full permission or any profit sharing. I believe this happened before DWV, PC generally found it to be morally wrong - which it totally is - and they backed out to do their own thing (anyone else remember the dollar sign banner and donate now avatars that, some how - don't look at me, showed up?) This comes after many "winners" reported never getting prizes, and around the time Fred - the guy behind DW - attempted to open a brick and mortar hangout area for artists in Montreal. This obviously failed, and the rumor is that those "prizes" were used in this studio space.
Personally, I loved loved loved DW but now am pretty strongly against it as, in my opinion, Fred has turned a very fun and casual event into a serious competition on a massive scale with absolutely no soul. Beyond that, he's built this all off of the backs of artist's doing this for free (for fun) and has, with evidence, tried to either profit or fund a passion project with little to no permission from those artists and certainly not giving them a cut.
The way this has always been reasoned out is that "it takes money to run these things" and it DEFINITELY does. But. Polycount does this and has never asked you for a dime. So has Artstation. So does CGPlus. If they can do it, so can he, and if he can't do it without asking for money, then he shouldn't do it at all. The dude's in it for money, and it's masked with the intention he's doing it for "the community" but that's bullshit and here's why:
-The idea of exposure is a lie. Back in the day, the exposure was to other peers in the industry and art directors would watch it for possible prospects. Look at rawkstar, slipgate, kite, etc. Now, the stage is so massive, most people don't even know who their competing against and any exposure gets lost to the literal thousands of applicants. Plus, DW was before social media was commonly used - it was a platform for a collection of artists to mingle, communicate, and basically learn from each other. now, there's Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, OKCupid, etc. and you can basically reach a more relevant audience that way.
- The idea of the being creative and fair judgment is a lie. The way DW is judged is essentially through the eyes of a brand. Before, you had variety, but as soon as it took off you see specific pieces getting voted up that fit within the vision of what DW is. Both on 2d/3d side, if you're in it to win, you essentially need to follow a style guide.
-The idea of prizes is a lie. Bigger ticket items have mysteriously disappeared, ask anyone who has been on these forums before the TF2 comps. Plus, with that level of competition, if you're coming out on top to win licenses and hardware, you're probably in a position where you can just buy it yourself.
- The only way to put it: there's some sketchy shit going down. With having KS tied to this so early on, and the shady moves in the past (wanting to sell people's work in prints, the studio, asking for money when virtually no one else does...) I'm willing to bet the exact same thing is happening in a few days. It's either going to be funding for staff, prizes, and/or a new studio that can be a base of operations. All I can say is - Artstation has an office and has never asked me for anything.
Anyway, if you want to join for fun - go ahead. Though, it's worth noting all of this history because it seriously does begin to fringe on illegal work - or at least immoral practices that question the respect of artists. Again, DW isn't what it used to be, and the name alone is just something thrown around by salty vets like me. It's meaningless. There are plenty of alternatives with just as big of reach, if not more, bigger prizes, and management staff not trying to take advantage of you. Don't be fooled by some dumb pipe dream or sob story, there's plenty of better alternatives.
(also, thanks for the shout out bucketofnuggets - you made me write my first lengthy post in years
I feel like the forum has lost a bit of personality as it's grown and evolved and people have come and gone. I wonder whether a similar event without all the pomp and grandeur - say 2 forums, no prizes, 1 hard deadline, could help bring the crew closer together again.
Or maybe these are the nostalgic ramblings of an bitter and severely hung over old fart.
Hah, I just finished my artstation journey entry and I stuck a greentooth in it as sort of a nod to Unearthly Challenge since I never really participated in one of them.
While I agree the exposure might be moot because of the sheer number of entrants into these sorts of things, it still is cool to be able to see a bunch of people actively working something during roughly the same period of time.
With Dominance War and Unearthly Challenge all they really have is nostalgia, plenty of places are more than able to put on these sorts of contests. We just finished Beast here and as Mentioned Art Station has started doing challenges too, Mapcore also has a contest going for Unreal Tournament right now.
Personally I don't really like the skin/asset pack contests we've been having here as of late mainly because you are basically locked in to a particular style off the bat, whereas with the broader challenges like Brawl, Escape etc... you end up with a huge range of different styles and approaches.
We're due for an environment challenge here soon though, Throne Room was about a year ago maybe something comes up soon after the weapon finish contest, hopefully one that involves many disciplines.
I've always had fun with the past Comicon Challenges, but it's hard to overlook practices like these from the organizer/s.
There are so many other sites with great challenges. Don't let yourself be suckered into being a pawn in Fred's fucked up games and delusions of grandeur.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/113560973/form-team-v2-creator-of-global-art-challenges
That video made me cringe
Gav sums is up so perfectly, thanks for taking the time to write it good sir!
Ideally these sort of comps should sustain themselves from ad revenue on the site, so more people browsing checking out a challenge the more revenue coming in. While this probably isn't always the case even here, I agree with you that running a kickstarter to fund a community art studio/incubator/whatever that has no relevance to actually running a challenge is bullshit. I mean @r13 won't be running kickstarters to fund renting office space/equipment for himself to do polycount stuff. Hell I remember reading that quite often site revenue didn't cover running costs not to mention the all the time donated by the PC crew day to day, it's a labour of love and that's why this community is regarded highly.
You better have two dogs or no deal
The way that video was setup to announce it was for a Montreal office I thought it was a joke. He announced in the vid the KS is for a studio office and then has people reacting negatively in the video and lists all these unrealistic uses for the studio? What an awkward video that was.
yep, on the kickstarter page this is their reason
"A physical space allows a team to communicate with each other in real-time, enabling technical solutions and online support to be delivered instantaneously, resulting in more efficient and 100% solid challenges for artists everywhere!"
Super compelling reason
Also in the video its an interesting use of the "video glitch effect" when Fredrik starts talking. From my past experience watching movies, when people use that effect it is usually used to show that something is wrong...
Really makes one appreciate polycount and artstation more
Thanks for clearing everything up Gavin!
Fred did manage to credit himself though, so there is that.
regarding permission from artists to display their work, didn't they agree to anything like that by entering the competitions?
I also know a few guys who's work is in that video that they definitely didn't give permission for. My understanding is that they were never asked and only a select group were shown this campaign beforehand.
I mean really its asking for a place to think for other people to use. which seems like a silly thing to waste money on.