Amazon Lumberyard...

almighty_gir

Free game engine - http://aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/



So did they just kill off Crytek? i mean... this is cryengine with free source access, and Crytek are charging $9.99 p/m for their indie license.

alekseypindrus

Actually Amazon saved CryTek as a company.
Can't say so about CryEngine in it's current state… will see.

More info about new engine:

https://aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/
https://aws.amazon.com/gamelift/

https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2016/02/amazon-lumberyard-and-amazon-gamelift-now-available-for-game-developers/
https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/lumberyard-amazon-gamelift-twitch-for-games-on-aws/

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/265425/Amazon_launches_new_free_highquality_game_engine_Lumberyard.php

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdU1s1FGTDY

Gmanx

So, what's the catch, if any? Looks like it's associated with Amazon Web Services and Twitch though I can't say (cuz I don't yet know) whether that's a good thing or not?

I'll download and have a poke around.

dzibarik

Well, I'm interested in what "The engine already has "an entirely new asset pipeline and processor"  means.

Stromberg90

I'll try it out more later today, but from my first look I don't know what to think.

I am not a fan of cryengines asset workflow, does it now support fbx fluently?

Seems like not much has changed in the art workflow from cryengine, hoping to hear from someone who is more experienced.
Guessing the examples are put together by amazon game studios, maybe some of those are on polycount.

alekseypindrus

Gmanx, main catch — it's a free version of CryEngine with source code access and no royalties whatsoever.
From now on they'll go separate ways and Lumberyard can become much more interesting.
You can check their changelog for what was changed.

dzibarik, as far as I can tell it's just reworked old Max/Maya plugins plus Asset processor:

The Asset Processor enables you to open levels immediately while assets stream in rather than waiting for a lengthy build process to complete. It also seamlessly integrates changes to source assets into a project without any action on your part to see the results. The Asset Processor is a background service that runs when you launch Lumberyard Editor. It monitors a configurable set of input folders for changes in source files and automatically generates platform-specific game assets as they change. After
the files are processed, game-ready versions of assets in per-platform folders are created in the Asset Cache.

dzibarik

@alekseypindrus: is it FBX for everything or still maya/max focused?

alekseypindrus

@dzibarik, as far as I can tell it's still Maya/Max. Same CGF exporter plugin.
Docs are very limited right now I must say.

slipsius

Edited OP to add a picture for the front page.

Demonith

Well i already on work with my game on Unity but i always wat to see how CryTek works so here and now i can do a small game and see what i can get from this engine  

Demonith

Will this be free for ever ?

Fuiosg

Being Amazon I can't imagine there's not some sort of proprietary hell attached to it.

littleclaude

This is amazing news! going to have a look right now!

Mstankow

Fuiosg said:

Being Amazon I can't imagine there's not some sort of proprietary hell attached to it.

If you do anything cloud related you have to use Amazon's services.

Hito

basically a "Freebie" to hook you into AWS and Gamelift.

Tekoppar

I'm always for competition. I'm curious what the limits of their visual scripting are, UE4's Blueprints biggest issue is the performance. Wounder if they found a way to tackle that.

almighty_gir

Tekoppar said:

I'm always for competition. I'm curious what the limits of their visual scripting are, UE4's Blueprints biggest issue is the performance. Wounder if they found a way to tackle that.

doubtful.

every layer of abstraction will cost in performance.

littleclaude

Gamasutra offers a little more insight into this engine. This should be able to export to the rumored 4K Nintendo NX, that will help set it apart, guess we will have to wait and see.

So can you not use this engine for automotive and military stuff? - POLICY 57.10 

                      " The Lumberyard Materials are not intended for use with life-critical or safety-critical systems, such as use in operation of medical equipment, automated transportation systems, autonomous vehicles, aircraft or air traffic control, nuclear facilities, manned spacecraft, or military use in connection with live combat. "

Demonith

Did some one install this and test it because i cant make it work i enter in it but its all black when i create new level all black wtf is this ?

slipsius

Ah. Here's a catch. You`re not allowed to use any non-authorized alternate web services. So if you dont buy their services, you cant do your cloud storage, or even things like analytics. 

57.4 Operating Restrictions. Without our prior written consent, (a) the Lumberyard Materials (including any permitted modifications and derivatives) may only be run on computer equipment owned and operated by you or your End Users, or on AWS Services, and may not be run on any Alternate Web Service and (b) your Lumberyard Project may not read data from or write data to any Alternate Web Service. “Alternate Web Service” means any non-AWS web service that is similar to or can act as a replacement for the services listed at http://docs.aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/userguide/alternate-web-services

Steve Schulze

Their EULA is certainly prepared for every eventuality.

Fenyce

that last one made my laugh! Sounds like: "If there are Zombies, use our engine for whatever you want, but kill 'em!!!"

n4uj

Fenyce said:

that last one made my laugh! Sounds like: "If there are Zombies, use our engine for whatever you want, but kill 'em!!!"

lol thanks for the explanation, English is not my mother tonge and I was for a bit like: "wait, is it correct what I'm understanding from this text?" Crazy stuff man, crazy stuff.
Anyway, I'm going to download it a try it.

alekseypindrus said:

Actually Amazon saved CryTek as a company.
Can't say so about CryEngine in it's current state… will see.

I don't understand how Amazon saved CryTek as a company, did Amazon buy CryTek?
If Lumberyard is like CryEngine but "free" at least for portfolio purporses it will be much better!

Ged

yeah looks cool, I got the impression from the promo video that the catch is that they expect all devs to use amazon services and platforms. Pretty cool for non commercial fun though.

thomasp

people actually read EULA's. who whould have thought.

is this engine phoning home all the time or does it work without a live net connection? never got into cryengine because of that.

alekseypindrus

@n4uj, year and a half ago CryTek experienced huge financial problems. Amazon licensed CryEngine for themselves plus for redistribution and that saved CryTek. Details: http://kotaku.com/sources-amazon-spent-big-bucks-on-cryteks-engine-1696008878

And, yes, Lumberyard is totally free. The only major downside is that if you want to use servers, you should use Amazon services or your own hardware.

@Ged, yepp. With twitch integration and upcoming VR era there will be more web-influenced games, so I think that was their intention.

But first and foremost they bought engine for themselves, Amazon game studios. They are working on a few AAA projects right now.

Ged

Oh yeah they've got quite a few US jobs available https://www.amazon.jobs/team/amazon-game-studios some have interesting descriptions which hint at how they would like games to be developed to use their infrastructure.

littleclaude

I have 50GB left on my hard drive and it ran out of space? how large it this engine? I am going to clean up my hard drive and try again.

alekseypindrus

@littleclaude, ZIP is 10 gigs but their system requirements are 200 gigs. I don't know why so much.

The Lumberyard development environment runs on your Windows PC or laptop. You’ll need a fast, quad-core processor, at least 8 GB of memory, 200 GB of free disk space, and a high-end video card with 2 GB or more of memory and Direct X 11 compatibility. You will also need Visual Studio 2013 Update 4 (or newer) and the Visual C++ Redistributables package for Visual Studio 2013.

tupikp

My gawd... 200GB? o.O;

Being based on CryEngine, I suppose Lumberyard is also not as friendly as UE4 or Unity5? I couldn't tell from their videos. Thankfully their tutorials are in PDF format, not video only. They are available in Lumberyard forum by the way.

almighty_gir

tried getting it to work, after a bunch of failed asset builds (which i think are done remotely as it tries to connect to the asset cloud or something) and about an hour of trying i just deleted everything.

and it seems like there are indeed plugins needed for photoshop and 3dsmax/maya to export into the engine.

Panupat

Steve Schulze said:

Their EULA is certainly prepared for every eventuality.

Now I DEFINITELY have to use this engine.

littleclaude

200 GIGS! Okay I'll get an new hard drive, maybe they should have waited until some heavy optimisation took place before releasing the engine....200 GIGS wow that is a "PHAT" one!

Still its free and a new engine so its still a thumbs up from me.

csprance

So one thing we weren't too sure about, but it seems like if you plan to create a multiplayer game with lumberyard you must either use servers you own and host yourself, or you MUST use AWS to host your game servers. Which means any third party data centers will not be allowed from the looks of the EULA.

Also that zombies clause is a solid addition. Gotta be prepared haha!

TAN

 Hey.

 I looked into conditions quite a bit. Here is what I gathered:

Conditions:

- Engine is free. Download it. Keep it as long as you want.
- Single player game releases are also free. Sİnce you don't use online services (Best part of the deal IMO)
- For multiplayer parts, need to use AWS.
- You can release your game on Steam or whatever
- You can use it for education, Arhcviz or any kind of viz. No cost. They want you to do that. Just let them know.
- Source code there, you can change it and use it as you wish. HOWEVER ! It isn't "Open Source". So then again, just let them know before release. ( They will probably be OK with that)
- For industry usage you will probably need a license from them. Contact them. Strike a deal.

 Future plans:

- This is a beta: They most certainly want to diverge from the path of Crytek and make the engine as easy and accessible as possible. This includes asset pipelines and switching over to indie type dev pipeline. For now you can import fbx geometry via editor for static objects. Most possibly you will see a UE4/Unity type import in the very near future.

- Networking has been rewritten: This engine will be as online friendly as possible. They even have a single node in Flowgraph that allows twitch access.

- They want people to use this powerful, real time, no-light-building GI engine for animations, movies and all Viz areas. Expect according developments.

- Flowgraph always worked way faster than UE4's Blueprints. But downside was it was closed to multiplayer scenarios. I suppose they dealt wit that know (Well they should have) I strongly advise that system over Blueprints. Use it once and you will see.

 Hope that cleared a lot in very small space. I'll be trying this engine from on. Will share the experiences here.

 Edit: Asked about flowgraph. Yeah it seems it works now

https://gamedev.amazon.com/forums/questions/1955/server-side-game-logic-code.html

ZacD

It seems like the biggest pro and biggest con is that it's Cryengine.

tupikp

CryEngine is a good engine. However CE tend to take an unnecessary complicated way to do some simple stuff. Hopefully Lumberyard will be more simpler than CE in the future. But first, Amazon really have to change their forum engine!  

Deathstick

interesting that it seems to have no royalties or pricetag whatsoever besides multiplayer servers if you don't roll your own, very interesting. Guess I'll have to try it out before I can pass judgement. Maybe might open some doors to simulation companies.

TAN

Note: Asked about flowgraph. Yeah it seems it works in multiplayer now

https://gamedev.amazon.com/forums/questions/1955/server-side-game-logic-code.html

Magihat

@TAN Thank you for the breakdown - really helpful!

ChickenSoup

Deathstick said:

interesting that it seems to have no royalties or pricetag whatsoever besides multiplayer servers if you don't roll your own, very interesting. Guess I'll have to try it out before I can pass judgement. Maybe might open some doors to simulation companies.

Subsea Simulation/Animation guy here, seriously looking in to using this for some ideas that I have. Certainly seems like a much cheaper option than some of the crazy prices of exisiting simulation solutions. Are you involved with the Kongsberg Vessel simulator? was supposed to go visit it a few years ago with work but never got round to it.

Gmanx

"200 GB of free disk space" Cripes. Well, that's that for me. Can't justify that amount of real-estate for something I 'might' use. ¬.¬

Joopson

Gmanx said:

"200 GB of free disk space" Cripes. Well, that's that for me. Can't justify that amount of real-estate for something I 'might' use. ¬.¬

As a note, it doesn't take up 200gb of space. My installation, with the extra forest content, is right around 40gb. Which is still a lot, but not nearly as bad as 200gb.

n4uj

Joopson said:

Gmanx said:

"200 GB of free disk space" Cripes. Well, that's that for me. Can't justify that amount of real-estate for something I 'might' use. ¬.¬

As a note, it doesn't take up 200gb of space. My installation, with the extra forest content, is right around 40gb. Which is still a lot, but not nearly as bad as 200gb.

That is, indeed, very true. I didn't understand the whole 200 gb thing

JedTheKrampus

I think the idea is that you should keep 200gb free in case you need to have two versions of the engine installed for regression testing on a new release. That would leave 120gb for your game data and binaries which big games can reach.

TAN

Just leaving this here if you mates wish to have a quick and easy start into LumberYard.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIpwO-VpFfyZcA9h2UnIrUQ/playlists


 Also this:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDVRDlLT8YjyZWJw9auGJCLqlfn6gDHZT


 From what I can gather from youtube videos people starting to like the engine, promoting it ad start making tutorials to it by themselves, which all are great news. Cheers.

littleclaude

almighty_gir said:

tried getting it to work, after a bunch of failed asset builds (which i think are done remotely as it tries to connect to the asset cloud or something) and about an hour of trying i just deleted everything.

and it seems like there are indeed plugins needed for photoshop and 3dsmax/maya to export into the engine.

Details on 3DSmax export - 

I find it strange that a forum spawned from Amazon looks so dull, especially when you have Unity and Unreal as a foundation that they could try and remediate, maybe it will get better in time? 

https://gamedev.amazon.com/forums/

weee

How's Cryengine's real time GI these days? how does it compare to others like Nvida's VXGI and Unity's GI engine?

JedTheKrampus

It's got way less precomputation time than Unity but runs a little slower in the end. It's way faster than VXGI because it doesn't revoxelize stuff every frame, but dynamic/skeletal meshes can only receive GI, not emit it. Overall it's pretty good, but not as high-quality as lightmaps.

I don't think that Lumberyard has the voxel stuff in it but I haven't downloaded it to try it out yet.

ambershee

slipsius said:

Ah. Here's a catch. You`re not allowed to use any non-authorized alternate web services. So if you dont buy their services, you cant do your cloud storage, or even things like analytics. 

57.4 Operating Restrictions. Without our prior written consent, (a) the Lumberyard Materials (including any permitted modifications and derivatives) may only be run on computer equipment owned and operated by you or your End Users, or on AWS Services, and may not be run on any Alternate Web Service and (b) your Lumberyard Project may not read data from or write data to any Alternate Web Service. “Alternate Web Service” means any non-AWS web service that is similar to or can act as a replacement for the services listed at http://docs.aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/userguide/alternate-web-services

There's always a catch, but this basically means any multiplayer must use their services and I suspect this may actually mean you cannot distribute your game through Steam on a technicality, since the services you'd need to integrate may indirectly rival their own.

JedTheKrampus

You're allowed to distribute Lumberyard games on Steam, GOG, et al.