UV Map/Normals Layout

KangarooSwag

Hello everyone!

First of all, I want to apologise for the stupidity behind this question, I'm sure it has a very simple answer.

I have 3ds Max 2014. I am getting quite proficient with the actual modelling part, but when it gets to generating normals I get a horrible mess of random model parts, whereas my UV's are nicely generated and even. My question is, are normal maps supposed to be of the same layout as the UV maps?

Thankyou for any and all help. Sorry again for the basic question

ZacD

Post pictures, it's really hard to tell what's going wrong without being able to see it. 

KangarooSwag

Ah... sorry about that. It was late.

Anyway, this is what I'm trying to generate  a normal map for: http://www.mediafire.com/view/p98rwafw79lsuqh/overview_pic.JPG 

This is what the Uv's look like: http://www.mediafire.com/view/kp4pcxp2f44u2zn/uv's.JPG 

And this is what the normal map generated as: http://www.mediafire.com/view/qlov6qz448zvev3/normal.JPG

My question was, are the Uv and Normal maps supposed to be of a similar layout? And if not, how can I make the normal map more "clean"?

Thankyou for your earlier swift reply as well.

RobeOmega

1) What software are you using to bake the normal map
 2) Are you using a cage?

  Imagine your UV's as a canvas. On that canvas different maps need to be applied using the same layout e.g. normal map, Ambient occlusion, Albedo ect. will all use the same canvas. There are exceptions to this sometimes however the vast majority of cases this applies.

 I am struggling here to work out what exactly you are trying to do, are you trying to do two separate layouts for you model and trying to bake your normal map out on a separate layout?

Quack!

Your UV layout is causing major issues here.  A good UV layout will help out with a ton of bake problems and then we can identify the other bake issues.  You should take time to fill the entire UV canvas with the shells and try to keep them as straight as possible and oriented to fit as best as possible.

You should aim for using the FEWEST UV islands as possible.  You have to make concessions for your normal maps and uv island size, but the fewer uv islands the better.

After unwrapping use IPackThat to pack your islands.  
http://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2395383#Comment_2395383

KangarooSwag

Quack! said:

Your UV layout is causing major issues here.  A good UV layout will help out with a ton of bake problems and then we can identify the other bake issues.  You should take time to fill the entire UV canvas with the shells and try to keep them as straight as possible and oriented to fit as best as possible.

You should aim for using the FEWEST UV islands as possible.  You have to make concessions for your normal maps and uv island size, but the fewer uv islands the better.

After unwrapping use IPackThat to pack your islands.  
http://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2395383#Comment_2395383

Yeah, I knew I went overboard with the islands. That was reduced as much as possible. Thankyou for the advice, I'm going to continue with another model now, and apply what you have told me.

Anyway, heres a link to the model if anybody was inclined to look at it: 

http://www.mediafire.com/download/uh3b7kry4ik8dkr/Remington+870_bake2.max 

Quack!

I just re-looked at your UV layout and it isn't that bad. I was looking at your UV layout from the normal map bake and thought that was your real layout. 
So yes, your normal map needs to bake to your first UV layout.  There is a setting in the baking options, make sure it is set to the correct uv set.

Sorry for mis-interpreting the images!

KangarooSwag

Quack! said:

I just re-looked at your UV layout and it isn't that bad. I was looking at your UV layout from the normal map bake and thought that was your real layout. 
So yes, your normal map needs to bake to your first UV layout.  There is a setting in the baking options, make sure it is set to the correct uv set.

Sorry for mis-interpreting the images!

Yeah ahahaha, I thought I'd done it worng when you said that. I spent about an hour packing that in as neat as I could, and I was a little crushed inside when you said it was horrible

I thought I must have missed a setting somewhere that told it which UV to bake off of, it was the only reasonable explanation I could think of. That was my original question if the layouts were supposed to be the same, and now I have confirmation of that.

Thankyou all!

KangarooSwag

I hate to ask again, but what exact option/dialog dictates what the normals generate off?

Deadly Nightshade

I think some of the misunderstanding comes from incorrect use of lingo. What you are refering to is UV sets. The UV layout is simply the placement of the UV shells, while the "slot" where this placement/layout is, is called a UV set.

Yes, the UV layout are supposed to be identical for all texture maps - not just the diffuse/albedo and the normal map.

There are exceptions to this of course - such as when creating lightmaps which requires a secondary UV set - but most of the time there should be only one UV set.

Also: its very hard to see what is going on in your UV layout because of the checker background - turn it off in the top right corner.

I'm against auto-packers but after working with Max professionally for a couple months I must say that the UV tools are total garbage. Also I happen to like IPackThat - it's a neat piece of software. But I really advice people who are new to 3d to manually unwrap and layout their UV's.

As for the normal bake itself, see the sticky in this forum section.

huffer

In the render to texture options, pick "use existing channel" for everything, and make sure it uses channel 1 for the UV (the same in your UVW Unrwap).