Feng Zhu School worth the investment risk?
polycounter lvl 9
Hey.
I didn't find my question answered through the forum... even though everyone knows about this school, sorry if it has already been answered.
I was talking to a teacher of 3D class and asking if he knew any good post graduation degree I could take on concept art, he asked: 'How serious are you?' and then told me that I should go to Feng Zhu Design School.
While I'm very open to the idea of traveling to the other side of earth, my financial status is not the best. I'd have to ask for a student loan, which I'd pay with a small added tax, still, the school is very expensive with or without the tax added to it.
Do you think I could easily get back the investment I was to make for the school? (around 25,000€ for the year) and then cover housing and costs of living there too, which would probably go for 50,000€?
Has anyone here who has done this course feels that I could easily get my money back? I think the market is always growing by the year, but I fear for not being able to pay this or get a job in the industry at all, everyone says it's a very competitive market... What's the cost (or lowest cost possible) of living in Singapore for one year?
Thanks in advance.
Miguel
I didn't find my question answered through the forum... even though everyone knows about this school, sorry if it has already been answered.
I was talking to a teacher of 3D class and asking if he knew any good post graduation degree I could take on concept art, he asked: 'How serious are you?' and then told me that I should go to Feng Zhu Design School.
While I'm very open to the idea of traveling to the other side of earth, my financial status is not the best. I'd have to ask for a student loan, which I'd pay with a small added tax, still, the school is very expensive with or without the tax added to it.
Do you think I could easily get back the investment I was to make for the school? (around 25,000€ for the year) and then cover housing and costs of living there too, which would probably go for 50,000€?
Has anyone here who has done this course feels that I could easily get my money back? I think the market is always growing by the year, but I fear for not being able to pay this or get a job in the industry at all, everyone says it's a very competitive market... What's the cost (or lowest cost possible) of living in Singapore for one year?
Thanks in advance.
Miguel
Replies
http://fengzhudesign.com/tutorials.htm
Don't expect a lot of lecture time with Feng, if that's one of your main reasons for going. He heavily relies on his two teachers/art directors (who he mentored himself...they're great instructors but it isn't quite the same.) Also, most students who come in with a half-hearted tend not to make it through the course as it's very rigorous and condensed.
It is one of the pricier concept art schools out there, so only fly over if you're willing to take the financial hit. Cost of living in Singapore is a little steep, but can be managed. Keep in mind there's a lot of talented FZD grads who haven't landed the jobs they expected...that's just how the market is.
And to be frank, I only consider Feng a "good" artist but no where "great".
I heard Scott Robertson school, Art Center College of Design has the possibility of giving scholarships to EU students, unlike Feng Zhu Design School.
My country has also good established relations with Japan, but I don't know of any school that I could really learn something from on there, it's all anime, right? I wouldn't go there just because I could, but rather to learn something. I found a site that claimed to be KONAMI School, but it's all on Kanji, I can't understand anything, I'll update this post later, for alternatives (affordable ones) for people whom may be finding this post useful.
Thanks everyone for your comments and Snowfly too for the added information about the teachers at FZD.
P.S. - I could also turn into a hermit and order a bunch of books and DVDs and train myself 12 to 18 hours a day, like they do on Feng Zhu, but I dread at becoming a social freak, still I'd get more than just signing up at some random course.
Average price for a year at one of those ateliers is $8,000 or 4,000 euro. Plus you don't have to move to Singapore.
With the 21,000 euros you would save you can buy all the DVDs/online courses/whatevers you want.
This one is 4,000 euro for a year : http://www.angelartschool.com/galleries.html
Again, it may be that I could pull it off, FZD has its students working/drawing for over 18 hours a day.
Not that hardcore but I was drawing at least 4 hours a day in collage too. Some self-taught artists I know spend even more time on their own and of course they ended up better than me. If you're discipline enough you dont need anyone to tell you to draw
http://www.artoffredram.com/
It's my impression that FZD has a heavy focus on vehicle, prop, and environment design (they don't neglect character though, I just don't see much in the way of anatomy and life drawing studies in their curriculum) - so if your skills are weaker in these areas, then the school might be a good choice.
I won't argue that you can't receive this training elsewhere, or more economically, but each individual may find that they hit their 'groove' with a particular school, mentor, or self-training regiment. For some people, the Feng Zhu Design School might be perfect, but it's not a perfect fit for all.
Usually i would find out if i make smaller break, you can't imagen how much that helps, rather then just trying to pull as many hours per day as humanly possible.
I do admire people who can actually pull off 18 hours per day for like a year, but i just wonder if that's really better than say, 12 hours, as the guy above me said, and in the long run, even if true, one does wonder if that's really the way industry should go.....
I've seen portfolios from graduates from FZD whom are not as good as that one. I've also seen self-taught artists who are pretty solid. I'm going to the bank this Monday, to see if I can get a scholarship, otherwise I think I may just make my own plan and study at home, as tempting as it may be to just dive into the mass grinding adventure.
By the way, I think, honestly, 12 or 18 hours may not be that much, I'm not sure about you guys but when I was younger, I used to play MMOs for that many hours, just to grind my character up to high levels... I don't do that anymore but what I think is, as long as you like what you're doing, you won't feel the hours. (?)
I thought they were using student work to get contracts or something like that.
I haven't heard about it, but they do showcase a lot of student work on their FZD School page (which all look breathtaking btw.)
I don't think they need to use the student work for that end... FZ has a very big portfolio already...
He emphasizes the importance of reading, nature, travel, etc. for a concept artist. Kind of hard to come up with original ideas when your head is full of videogames and work you've already done.
I don't take it the wrong way, I know my stuff is out of perspective.
His career before is irrelevant to his growth in talent.
Either way, I think going into a school program is good if that is how you learn. If you have the self discipline then you can grow just from practicing every day and going to local college classes on the side.
1) It's extremely hard & competitive
The guys there say they work on their skills 20 hours a day 7 days a week. Take a moment to take that in. For a whole year, you will be averaging 4 hours of sleep a night, the classrooms aren't that flash so you will be in a small grey room for most of your day. One guy I spoke to said it took him 6 months to get used to the routine. You need to be in class by 10 am every weekday, and most people will not go home until 4am. It's called a "military school" for this reason.
Every day your work will be compared to others in your class, which is why people spend so many hours working on projects everyday. You essentially have to complete an assignment every single day.
2) Singapore is a hard place to live
Singapore is a pretty expensive place to live and you will probably need $40, 000 on top of the course fees to pay living expenses. You wont have time to work during this time and you will receive no benefits. The humidity and heat in Singapore can not be overstated. Even though your classes are air conditioned, the school itself is no exactly in a convenient location.
Students there said that the 15 - 30 minutes they spent in the heat each day was enough to completely deplete their energy. Despite working 20 hour days, they said the heat and humidity in singapore is the worse part. If you come from a northern country like england or something, you've never experienced anything like it.
3) The industry is extremely competitive
FZD is producing some of the best concept artists we've ever seen, and here lies the problem. Every year 100 industry-ready concept artists flood the market. 100 doesn't seem like a lot, but how many game developers do you think are out there? Even GTA V which had a development team of 1000 people probably only had a handful of concept artists.
Not only are you competing for a job with everyone in your class, you are competing for a job with the people who graduated last year, and the year before that, and so on. Since the schools induction it's released about 600 concept artists into the market. Concept art is such a niche market and such a small part of the large game development pipeline. You could be a texture artist, an environment artist, 3D prop artist or a generalist, as a bonus there isn't a school pumping 100's of them into the market every year.
4) It's a business
They call themselves a school, but they are not government funded or endorsed. They are essentially a business and the CEO (fheng zhu) pulls in about 4 million a year. This very fact will constantly nag at the back of your mind, are you being plat-formed to an amazing career or are you just a mule in someone else's business plan? Obviously you get out what you put in, and both parts of the previous sentence probably apply.
5) All that effort, but for what?
The average salary of a concept artist is not that high, and the amount of effort required is highly disproportionate to the salary. For the same amount of money and effort you could just become a petroleum engineer and earn 130K a year in 4 years after graduating. Instead you will be earning closer to 50K. You can increase your income by becoming an art director, but there are better ways to enter the field.
Conclusion:
All that being said, going to FZD is the ONLY WAY of becoming a concept artist. There skill level and proffeciency would take the average person 8 YEARS to achieve. If you where really dedicated and managed to practise 6 hours a day, then it would take 4 years to be that good. I'd only recommend doing this course if you BORN TO DRAW, only do it if it's in your every waking fibre. Do you draw for fun? given the option to play a video game would you start painting instead? Are you constantly thinking of awesome concept ideas? If you answered no to any of these, you need to seriously reconsider this career choice.
Or if you have rich parents, go for it. For most people, it wont be worth it.
Any normal person will spend 6-8 years of solid effort to reach the same level they do in 12 months.
Drawing/sketching skill is a skill gained by spending time and practice. If your passion is really in art, you should be sketching on your own and become better everyday already. If you're not doing that, really ask yourself if this is what you want to do your entire life...
Most of the people here keeps practicing and keeps learning new things on our own time, after work. And we're able to do that because it's our passion. That's what important: the drive to improve yourself on your own. Learning doesn't end after only a few years in collage/school.
lol but Feng Zhu did go to an insanely good industrial design focused school. I think it's important to realize that there are many great schools out there. Pick the one that fits your situation best and work your ass off!
As for the 18 hours a day thing... there will be some days you hit that number but probably not all the time. I went to full sail and our class kinda had a sense of whoever could work the most days on little to no sleep was the most badass. Looking back that seems pretty dumb lol. (I wouldn't reccomend working over 12 hrs a day unless it's for short sprints.) But the mentality of working hard and focusing on improving will absolutely pay off. I've been in the industry 5 years now and still work just as hard as I did back in school.
To to sum it all up: Pick what you want to do (in this case art...), figure out what you can do to make it happen and then commit all your willpower to doing that. Like others have said, research the teachers and find people you want to learn from.
There's a great podcast on this very subject:
http://chrisoatley.com/concept-artist-internship/
I mean again they paint about 15 hours a day, I don't know any person who has the discipline and dedication to that without the help of a school.
1 year of 18-20+ hours of studying aint enough.
http://sixtoart.blogspot.pt/2013/10/not-gamepractice-part-ii-too-broke-for.html
Have you considered alternatives like online learning? Make no doubt Feng Zhu is a master (and I haven't done enough research elsewhere) but surely there are other masters who are closer to home. Were you to attend art school in your area, would you have government subsidies for locals? How will the cost of living impact your finances? Of course do some background research to see if other schools can provide decent courses.
Everyone wants to learn from the best, but don't forget to be realistic and weigh out the pros and cons carefully. To me being able to attend FZD is more of a luxury than a need. If you think you can afford FZD, I'd say why not. If you can't, you don't have to feel discouraged. That's my 2 cents.
I only think of attending FZD nowadays, when I get to an obstacle in the way, that I feel FZD teachers would clear it for me, but I have been finding work arounds.
If they're not busy or tied up in projects they might be able to "school" you for a reasonable fee.
Like, give you the same assignments and classwork projects that they did at FZD.