"We had to use red barrels"
BulletStorm designer "Arcade" discusses a classic cliche conundrum, do you take the green pill or the red?Over on the people-can-fly blog they talk about how they tried to go green but in the end only saw red. It must be hardwired into testers and gamers DNA to only shoot red ones...
http://www.peoplecanfly.com/blog/
"They got completely ignored (green exploding barrels) by the players and no one guessed or assumed that they were explosive. Why not? Because they weren’t red. Everyone knows that only the red barrels are explosive. There’s a lot of stuff going on in Bulletstorm at the same time, so it’s vital for us that the player can quickly read the environment and act intuitively."
What do you think, should we accept it as a universal mechanic and resign ourselves to the fact that red = boom? Or should we make more things surprisingly explode in gamers faces in an effort to shake things up? Should the industry ban exploding barrels all together?
What are your thoughts on everyone's cover companion, the crate?
Replies
not to insult you but i think your just spamming what is already known.
since doom, we as gamers instinctively know red=boom
honestly this isn't news, and not to be rude to whoever is posting these, its just not related to the more pressing matters within polycount.
what about the further updates on a second tf2 contest hunh?or how about the latest quick easy steps of blah blaah blaaah. why hear something we already know? what relevance does this pertain to us if someone's game didn't go as planned just because some players didn't shoot a couple of combustible barrels?
I'm sorry for ranting or bein a pissant but you spam like 2-3 posts a day and half of them don't really come off as surprising or even the least bit informative = /
again sorry, but that's how i feel.
As game artists, whether its 'what is already known' or not we are responsible for maintaining a skill set on visual language. Red barrels, no matter how common they may be, are a fine example of a said visual language. Mark's question, while specific to Red Barrels™, should be considered for all videogame tropes when it comes to creating art. Visual language, when coupled with maintaining a suspension of disbelief, are two things that you have to work towards in understanding their relationship. So, when players do not shoot a barrel because it is not red, its worth knowing. Not everyone that reads Polycount has been doing this for a considerable amount of time to understand these things.
So, VidGameDude, no matter much you may or may not know about whats happening around the industry others may not. Consider that on your next rant. You're welcome to use the Contact Us link at the bottom of Polycount to submit links you believe are news worthy.
Green= things that get in the way of one's bullets
Blue will follow you and f' you up just before the finish line
but seriously this is a interesting bit of info. Although everyone knows this at least subconsciously it could be taken for granted (especially by noobs like myself lol).
This extends much further than make exploding barrels red. Like Adam pointed out we are in the business of communicating visually. We've actually had this discussion a few times on polycount in the forums over the years and it always yields good results. This wasn't the end all be all news post to define the visual language of barrels, but to start a discussion. Which has always been one of polycounts core strengths, its discussions and debates. I could heavy-handedly lead the discussion and typed up all the bullet points from past conversations along with my own personal views but then it wouldn't be a discussion and new rabbit trails wouldn't be formed. People would read and move on, the overall discussion doesn't move forward.
This speaks to everything from the "in your face obvious like exploding barrels" to lighting a level to guide a player to the right places and letting them know what to interact with. We even tell a story with our dirt and debris. This translates to every aspect of the industry and almost every job. Even the artist making the most mundane objects need to think about visual language. At some point you might be asked to create a new series of objects that convey new things to users. If you speak the visual language then this could be a fun task that you nail the 1st or 2nd attempt. If not, it's going to be a frustrating burden.
"I'm sorry for ranting or bein a pissant but you spam like 2-3 posts a day and half of them don't really come off as surprising or even the least bit informative."
If you're talking about "A Look Back..." then you must not be one of the people worried about the health of our industry or trying to figure out where it's going?
Considering we are all still reeling from a year of layoff and closures with many comrades out looking for work I think it does some good to look back to previous crash and reboots. Especially from a guy that has been at it for 30 years and still remains optimistic. It might help the vet who has been out of work for 6mo to know that the industry faced near extinction and not only bounced back but took off in unimaginable ways. Or the student looking to make this a career path. Or the person who has a job wondering what the industry is going to do.
If you haven't noticed our industry has a bit of a boom and bust cycle to it. Not only the year to year boom and bust thanks to retail, but as consoles start to show their age players start to walk away. We stand at one of those cross roads only instead of new hardware to reinvigorate the market we've gotten some pretty trendy motion sensing add-ons. As we move forward we'll have to see how that plays out. If it doesn't we could be looking at another bust cycle and at that point, you should probably have your hatches battened and your accountant resume polished?
Most of the time, i notice that colors are used based on our everyday life experience: red is dangerous, yellow needs to be noticed, and green is stress free. this is the easy route, but in terms of innovation, nothing new is happening.
What about the purpose of the barrel affecting not only its color scheme but its shape and design as well? Take for example a more heavily armored cleaner barrel would probably be harder nut to crack but could pay off with a bigger explosion. A smaller rustier barrel might be easily set off but not pack the same punch. In both of those cases it might be up to the artist instead of the designers to translate that to the players. In both cases red = boom but the bigger explosion but there is more info being passed to the player about the object.
What about exploding objects that need to be interacted with before they can be detonated. For example barrels don't explode on bullet impact but are primed and rolled at enemies Donkey Kong style. The player needs to understand how and which part to interact with, preferably without a long winded tutorial and something they can pick up quickly in the heat of battle.
Sometimes that job falls first to a concept artist but does that happen because they speak the visual language a little better than a normal modeler? If a modeler could take those tasks and run with them without a detailed concept would they could be a much more valuable employee? You don't need to be an amazing concept artist to take a designers idea and flesh them out, but you do need the visual language tools a concept artist would deploy, even if your hand eye coordination isn't at the same level, heh.
Anyway.. even though most of us know this stuff already.. would it be safe to throw together a thread for visual language/ques here on the forum?.. like guidelines to the things we know, but don't necessarily think about all the time, and keep it as a log and database for future reference? We could also use it as an ideation type thread to establish new ideas on visual ques and communication to our future players... For all intents and purposes, we are game artists, but we need to keep design in the mix as well... I could kick things off with an example:
What do we think about when it comes to colors in games.. we've already covered Red for the most part, but to reiterate (and feel free to add on/edit post all you like):
Red = Danger, flashy interactive buttons/ explosive barrels, stop, sniper lasers, game Boss on the brink of death, fire, enemy/ hostile, exp orbs, (sometimes) health packs, berserk, breakable surface (item specific), (sometimes) health bars, intense/scary moody environments
Orange = fire/ lava, (sometimes) enemy, breakable surface (item specific), intense/scary moody environments
Yellow = gold/ currency, holy elements, flashy interactive buttons, (sometimes) experience orbs/cubes, boss battle quick time events, breakable surface (item specific), bright (yet) dismal desert-like environments.
Green = health packs/orbs/bars, goo, radio active gunk, wind/ nature elements, breakable surface (item specific), soothing/ natural environments, friendly unit, NPC, poison
Blue = mana bar/orbs/packs, lightning elements, ice/water elements, soothing/ peaceful environments, friendly unit
Purple = sinister, evil, dark moody environments, unholy elements
Black = death, burnt/ charred, abyssal, pits, (sometimes) goo, dark, scary mood
White = light, holy elements
This list goes on and on. We know this already, but how often to we talk about it.. besides now.. we need to keep pushing the envelope too-- granted it's good to stick to the rule "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"-- but what other ways can we easily communicate this visual language and not throw players off?.. anyways.. that's my two cents..
Sad but true; Red=Bad.