But what being a jerk is exactly? Sometimes, I say stuff without the intention of offesning anyone but tjust because think my statement is stupid, I get mocked or get insulted.
I wonder if these type of posts will cost me a job...
But what being a jerk is exactly? Sometimes, I say stuff without the intention of offesning anyone but tjust because think my statement is stupid, I get mocked or get insulted.
I wonder if these type of posts will cost me a job...
Being hopeful: It's swearing at people and insulting their title
Worst case scenario: It's any comment that gets you called out by a Polycount Admin/Veteran
But I think the real answer is, if you "know" you're a jerk.
Be yourself...If it costs you a job..you probably wouldn't have liked it anyway.
And to be clear, I'm not advocating being a jerk, just saying you shouldn't tip-toe around the forum in fear that a future employer may not like your taste in music, or your opinion on the flat earth society.
A jerk is someone who is highly disruptive or brings instability to the workplace.
Without saying too much, it makes sense that the game industry is like other industries, and they just want a person who can live by the rules of an existing eco-system. Throwing in a "shark" in a pool of goldfish is going to work against that.
Well, look at your post history. Do you come off as someone who would be insufferable to work closely with on a day-to-day basis? The guy who people would avoid in the office? If not, then don't worry.
Yeah my employers told me they looked through my polycount history. Good thing I am a lovely person :poly124:
I do get a little evil enjoyment of the thought of karma coming around to certain people though.
Haha
I feel like a douche so often, posting here
Feels like if you dont double the amount of smilies and friendly words in the internet it always sounds bitter even although its meant completely neutral
Also I now understand why its so hard getting honest feedback, you don't really get any real return for that you often make no friends by saying straight what you think. I don't really know how people percieve this, but on the one hand I feel like i often give good feedback and can help people but on the other hand it clearly feels like im hurting myself doing so, not sure what to do.
I feel like a douche because on lots of technicall talk questions that pop up i keep pointing that the answer to the question is literally writing it on google and its the first result .
Everyone keeps asking for "tutorials" with the minimum search effort, and i dont believe thats a good way to learn to hope to have everything spoon fed...If that is beeing a douche then, guilty !
I don't really know how people percieve this, but on the one hand I feel like i often give good feedback and can help people but on the other hand it clearly feels like im hurting myself doing so, not sure what to do.
Well, if it's any consolation, you've given me some amazing feedback in the past and I really appreciate it. I think that being able to give legitimately good feedback is actually a real skill - it's not easy. If I were an employer I'd see it as a plus point. It's good for teamwork, and shows your thought process.
I feel like a douche so often, posting here
Feels like if you dont double the amount of smilies and friendly words in the internet it always sounds bitter even although its meant completely neutral
Also I now understand why its so hard getting honest feedback, you don't really get any real return for that you often make no friends by saying straight what you think. I don't really know how people percieve this, but on the one hand I feel like i often give good feedback and can help people but on the other hand it clearly feels like im hurting myself doing so, not sure what to do.
Tone and attitude are two different things... There are people in Polycount who sound a bit harsh but actually engage in constructive criticism and make efforts to help people out. There are some others that just bring negativity and ruin otherwise interesting discussions. Happy that the latter doesn't come up too often!
This event must of been a while ago right? I don't see many jerks here? At least not ones that get interviews at studios.
Or i could just be naive and ignorant.
I've seen some people labelled "jerks" and "troublemakers" in studios who were some of the most talented and productive people there, who were actually really super cool people they just didn't have time to hold everyone's hand on mommy's first UV tutorial because they were busy getting stuff done and unfortunately that can ruffle some feathers. A lot of people would probably label those people douchebags, but I tell you what I'd jump at a chance to work with a lot of them - the totally amenable yet forgettable artist who sits behind them? Not so much...
it really sad if some will go over someone profile, make fake friend request to someone
Facebook account just to see their personal post and their political interest,
....in order to judge their professionalism.
good thing not happen in all companies. it rarely happens in creative industries
I've seen some people labelled "jerks" and "troublemakers" in studios who were some of the most talented and productive people there, who were actually really super cool people they just didn't have time to hold everyone's hand on mommy's first UV tutorial because they were busy getting stuff done and unfortunately that can ruffle some feathers. A lot of people would probably label those people douchebags, but I tell you what I'd jump at a chance to work with a lot of them - the totally amenable yet forgettable artist who sits behind them? Not so much...
Some people also are consummate professionals and really personable in the workplace, but sometimes like to air what are at times unpopular opinions in debates online.
Considering anything can and will offend somebody these days... I suppose it's best to just stop posting anything except dry technical questions, and not risk somebody judging books by covers.
I'm pretty sure whoever they were talking about was actually probably a dick. There's a big difference between someone whose a dick and someone who gives blunt honest feedback and opinions based on knowledge.
I was part of a much smaller Q&A panel at Teesside University recently and it is great to see that we were kind of saying the same stuff as the guys at GDC.
(Immediately shares link(s) to GDC Talk with my contacts there ^.^ )
Really good talk, thanks for sharing. At one point someone mentioned adding sketches/drawings to your portfolio even if you're not going for that position. I always thought portfolios should show exclusively the work you're applying for (i.e Environment Art). Any thoughts on this?
Really good talk, thanks for sharing. At one point someone mentioned adding sketches/drawings to your portfolio even if you're not going for that position. I always thought portfolios should show exclusively the work you're applying for (i.e Environment Art). Any thoughts on this?
Every interview I've had has asked to see some sort of personal work. There's a common belief that you need to be passionate about your work and personal work shows a degree of passion.
I've seen some people labelled "jerks" and "troublemakers" in studios who were some of the most talented and productive people there, who were actually really super cool people they just didn't have time to hold everyone's hand on mommy's first UV tutorial because they were busy getting stuff done and unfortunately that can ruffle some feathers. A lot of people would probably label those people douchebags, but I tell you what I'd jump at a chance to work with a lot of them - the totally amenable yet forgettable artist who sits behind them? Not so much...
Well there are different kinds of work places. Many of them are full of delusional leader positions with 0 common sense that trust a statistic more than a whole game design team. A coworker of a friend came in new and he stated very obvious and clear issues with the current game that desperately need fixing, (the game is full of issues and not really fun, nobody there plays it, makes money tho)-
- he got quickly sent to another team by the higher positions because he was a "troublemaker" ...
The friend himself got negative worker reviews because he kept
making (good) suggestions and question their bad workways, after a while he stopped caring like everyone else there and just say nothing, and then they told him that he improved a lot .. just total nonsense.
You're online persona on Polycount most certainly can effect how you are viewed. It absolutely has cost some people jobs or shots at interviewing.
A ton of people here frequent Polycount quite often. Most never post and you would have no idea the leads are always checking out the new cool art and tech threads but they are. Unlike me posting a decent amount like the jackass I am, most just are the silent observing type.
So just be mindful of that. People that are extremely aggressive and openly hostel all the time without anything constructive to add are people you don't want to work with.
As for Facebook I never seen or heard of anyone in the game industry going through someones profile to see what type of person you are. They, much like yourself believe that there personal life and professional life are two different things. They want to be treated that way and will treat others that way.
Polycount if where you are showing off how you act in a more professional form as its all about your profession. Facebook is for your vain lives and boosting your ego with all them likes (please like my posts by the way, I need the ego boost)
HOWEVER, if you are one of those people who Facebook friends every industry professional and also post often on facebook showing off you are a huge douche well then yeah, people will remember that and it will be hard to separate that fact. I have seen 1 or 2 people do that unfortunately and honestly, thats there own fault.
If your being judged by your internet posts on polycount then Houston, we have a problem :poly122:
If someone is being a constant troll I can understand that but to write someone off because of their polycount posts and the art is top notch you really have to be kidding me.
Seems like everyone is going down the politically correct road these days, it's boring the tits off me.
We don't make mistakes, just happy little accidents.
― Bob Ross
If someone is being a constant troll I can understand that but to write someone off because of their polycount posts and the art is top notch you really have to be kidding me.[/URL]
It doesnt matter if your the best artist in the world. If you are an ass then you are not someone I or most studios would want to work with. It really only takes 1 terrible person to really ruin a great working relationship a studio has.
So I don't see why its hard to imagine people judging you by the way you portray yourself on a forum dedicated to your professional hobby.
And I don't think hardly any studio is combing over PC looking for threads where you posted. But you do get the occasional person who can be a constant antagonist any time they post. There are some people who are just trolls and instead of offering any kinda of constructive feedback they just use PC as there personal blog on why they are so great and everyone isnt.
If things are on the fence with a candidate and you know them, or people know them and they have a bad reputation on Polycount then yeah why wouldn't that influence your decision?
I'm a lead, I hire people, I also do the reviews with the guys in this video every year at GDC. Definitely, if I know you are unprofessional in the community I would consider someone else. Why? It's really simple - creating good models is only part of the job. You also need to be a team player, receive feedback well, be approachable, and jive well with the company culture.
Does that mean never ever share an opinion or a joke or poke fun at someone? No - of course not. It also doesn't mean people like me are hovering over Polycount waiting for you to fuck up. BUT, it's been said a million times, the industry is insanely small..and something like Polycount is a hub for the community online. If you've gained a reputation as being a bit of a dick here, it's assumed you would be in person as well. If you've classically ignored feedback, been unprofessional, gone out of your way to insult someone, and it has become known...it doesn't matter how good your work is, I wouldn't want to work with you.
And, if the argument is "How I act online is different than in real life." Why do you act like such an asshole online?
I can imagine that because many people don't have english as their mother tongue, things can eventually come off as a little rude or blunt. Now as you don't have any gestures or other things for communication online, it's hard to understand what people really mean. As somebody mentioned, you don't put smileys everywhere. But that shouldn't be a big deal, right?
And, if the argument is "How I act online is different than in real life." Why do you act like such an asshole online?
In my opinion, that's at least as bad as being a douchebag in "both worlds".
Seems to me it needs a certain amount of deceptiveness or at least interesting double standards if someone is happily a dick online, while making sure they come across as nice people in real life, or wherever needed to make sure it doesn't interfere with their actual career.
It doesnt matter if your the best artist in the world. If you are an ass then you are not someone I or most studios would want to work with. It really only takes 1 terrible person to really ruin a great working relationship a studio has.
So I don't see why its hard to imagine people judging you by the way you portray yourself on a forum dedicated to your professional hobby.
And I don't think hardly any studio is combing over PC looking for threads where you posted. But you do get the occasional person who can be a constant antagonist any time they post. There are some people who are just trolls and instead of offering any kinda of constructive feedback they just use PC as there personal blog on why they are so great and everyone isnt.
If things are on the fence with a candidate and you know them, or people know them and they have a bad reputation on Polycount then yeah why wouldn't that influence your decision?
I disagree with this and if you go though the history books on all creative levels, musicians,singers,actors,producers,directors,artists,writers you will find that they have not all been easy people to get along with but they have been dam good at what they do/did. Today particularly when it comes to art & music & media we have supervisors, managers and CEO's that want everything "their way" end of discussion that's the way I want it and if you don't agree you know where the exit is, few have any or very little artistic "talent" but end up through friendship-politics getting these positions and most of these guys and girls are very polite and politically correct on the internet, strange that:poly121:
If having a bad rep on the internet was the final "judgement" of who a person really is then the history of everything creative to date would be a stagnant pond, like I said before we are all becoming a bunch of yes sir yes sir 3 bags full sir politically correct drones and we better watch out what we say on our face book pages and forums or yet another bridge will be burnt, this is pure fear mongering madness to keep everyone in line and in their place.
Some people are ass holes and some are arrogant pricks, some are selfish pricks but who cares if they can produce bloody good work ? You are not sitting around drinking coffee and having a nice time of it chatting on the job, you are there to work for the end product and if everyone was the same it would be a right old barrel of laughs.
Look to what the person can bring to the end product and leave the rest to good old common sense, I presume most game artists possess some common sense not so sure about supervisors, managers and CEO's :poly124:
Sure, there's something to be said for keeping private lives private. But I can tell you from experience, the same as many game industry veterans here, that it truly sucks working with people who are not team players. They reduce the overall quality of life in a team environment, and thus they reduce the quality of the end result. This is why everyone tries to avoid those people in their new hires. Game development is not a solo sport.
I disagree with this and if you go though the history books on all creative levels, musicians,singers,actors,producers,directors,artists,writers you will find that they have not all been easy people to get along with but they have been dam good at what they do/did.
The brilliantly creative but hard to work with should really be off doing their own thing, not working in a studio. It's almost always better for an employer to have a reliable and reasonably skilled worker than a brilliant but unreliable one.
I disagree with this and if you go though the history books on all creative levels, musicians,singers,actors,producers,directors,artists,writers you will find that they have not all been easy people to get along with but they have been dam good at what they do/did.
i think your comparison is off the mark for starters. if you work as a salaried/contracted artist for a studio, you're crew, not cast. a craftsman with an artist-job title, hired to do a specific job, more comparable to a movie set/costume creator or a player in an orchestra. you're working as part of a team - and no matter how good you are - you're still replaceable.
I work remotely for a team who worked originally on a very popular mod. It was obvious it was extremely important to them that I fit in and got on well with everyone. Every time I got feedback on how I was doing, I was told I was "fitting in well". No one wants to work with people they don't like, and it's especially important when you work closely with a smaller team.
Yeah, you can do that all you want. I've been in a position to hire or advise for people coming on to my team. I have definitely gone through people's post history to see if they're a jerk or just how they present themselves in general. I don't look for your interests, political views, or anything like that. I will however see how you treat other people. Do you prop people up or tear them down? Do you respond well to criticism? I look at talent first and attitude second, but don't think for a moment that how you present yourself online has no consequence.
There's a simple rule to follow in person and online: Don't be a dick.
I've seen people get let go for being really difficult to work with or not hired because they were cocky jerks in their interviews(even with extensive skills and experience). I've never known of an artist that was so good that they couldn't be replaced. You end up spending a lot of time with your team, no one wants to spend it with someone who makes everyone else uncomfortable.
Replies
Cheers
Moral of the story - don't be a douche on Polycount
But yeah, don't be a douche overall as this is the digital age and the web never forgets.
I didn't have the video link on the wiki, now I do. Thanks Magic Sugar!
Here's the document part of that talk fwiw
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014812/Killer-Portfolio-or-Portfolio-Killer
the 'douches' now could essentially change their domain and username and we'll be none the wiser!
As someone who plans on opening a portfolio, that was a good chunk of knowledge about how to do it
Thanks for posting it
I wonder if these type of posts will cost me a job...
Being hopeful: It's swearing at people and insulting their title
Worst case scenario: It's any comment that gets you called out by a Polycount Admin/Veteran
But I think the real answer is, if you "know" you're a jerk.
And to be clear, I'm not advocating being a jerk, just saying you shouldn't tip-toe around the forum in fear that a future employer may not like your taste in music, or your opinion on the flat earth society.
A jerk is someone who is highly disruptive or brings instability to the workplace.
Without saying too much, it makes sense that the game industry is like other industries, and they just want a person who can live by the rules of an existing eco-system. Throwing in a "shark" in a pool of goldfish is going to work against that.
I do get a little evil enjoyment of the thought of karma coming around to certain people though.
But...but..I don't feel confortable at all.
Haha
I feel like a douche so often, posting here
Feels like if you dont double the amount of smilies and friendly words in the internet it always sounds bitter even although its meant completely neutral
Also I now understand why its so hard getting honest feedback, you don't really get any real return for that you often make no friends by saying straight what you think. I don't really know how people percieve this, but on the one hand I feel like i often give good feedback and can help people but on the other hand it clearly feels like im hurting myself doing so, not sure what to do.
Everyone keeps asking for "tutorials" with the minimum search effort, and i dont believe thats a good way to learn to hope to have everything spoon fed...If that is beeing a douche then, guilty !
Tone and attitude are two different things... There are people in Polycount who sound a bit harsh but actually engage in constructive criticism and make efforts to help people out. There are some others that just bring negativity and ruin otherwise interesting discussions. Happy that the latter doesn't come up too often!
Or i could just be naive and ignorant.
Facebook account just to see their personal post and their political interest,
....in order to judge their professionalism.
good thing not happen in all companies. it rarely happens in creative industries
Some people also are consummate professionals and really personable in the workplace, but sometimes like to air what are at times unpopular opinions in debates online.
Considering anything can and will offend somebody these days... I suppose it's best to just stop posting anything except dry technical questions, and not risk somebody judging books by covers.
I was part of a much smaller Q&A panel at Teesside University recently and it is great to see that we were kind of saying the same stuff as the guys at GDC.
(Immediately shares link(s) to GDC Talk with my contacts there ^.^ )
Every interview I've had has asked to see some sort of personal work. There's a common belief that you need to be passionate about your work and personal work shows a degree of passion.
: P
Well there are different kinds of work places. Many of them are full of delusional leader positions with 0 common sense that trust a statistic more than a whole game design team. A coworker of a friend came in new and he stated very obvious and clear issues with the current game that desperately need fixing, (the game is full of issues and not really fun, nobody there plays it, makes money tho)-
- he got quickly sent to another team by the higher positions because he was a "troublemaker" ...
The friend himself got negative worker reviews because he kept
making (good) suggestions and question their bad workways, after a while he stopped caring like everyone else there and just say nothing, and then they told him that he improved a lot .. just total nonsense.
A ton of people here frequent Polycount quite often. Most never post and you would have no idea the leads are always checking out the new cool art and tech threads but they are. Unlike me posting a decent amount like the jackass I am, most just are the silent observing type.
So just be mindful of that. People that are extremely aggressive and openly hostel all the time without anything constructive to add are people you don't want to work with.
As for Facebook I never seen or heard of anyone in the game industry going through someones profile to see what type of person you are. They, much like yourself believe that there personal life and professional life are two different things. They want to be treated that way and will treat others that way.
Polycount if where you are showing off how you act in a more professional form as its all about your profession. Facebook is for your vain lives and boosting your ego with all them likes
HOWEVER, if you are one of those people who Facebook friends every industry professional and also post often on facebook showing off you are a huge douche well then yeah, people will remember that and it will be hard to separate that fact. I have seen 1 or 2 people do that unfortunately and honestly, thats there own fault.
If someone is being a constant troll I can understand that but to write someone off because of their polycount posts and the art is top notch you really have to be kidding me.
Seems like everyone is going down the politically correct road these days, it's boring the tits off me.
We don't make mistakes, just happy little accidents.
― Bob Ross
It doesnt matter if your the best artist in the world. If you are an ass then you are not someone I or most studios would want to work with. It really only takes 1 terrible person to really ruin a great working relationship a studio has.
So I don't see why its hard to imagine people judging you by the way you portray yourself on a forum dedicated to your professional hobby.
And I don't think hardly any studio is combing over PC looking for threads where you posted. But you do get the occasional person who can be a constant antagonist any time they post. There are some people who are just trolls and instead of offering any kinda of constructive feedback they just use PC as there personal blog on why they are so great and everyone isnt.
If things are on the fence with a candidate and you know them, or people know them and they have a bad reputation on Polycount then yeah why wouldn't that influence your decision?
Does that mean never ever share an opinion or a joke or poke fun at someone? No - of course not. It also doesn't mean people like me are hovering over Polycount waiting for you to fuck up. BUT, it's been said a million times, the industry is insanely small..and something like Polycount is a hub for the community online. If you've gained a reputation as being a bit of a dick here, it's assumed you would be in person as well. If you've classically ignored feedback, been unprofessional, gone out of your way to insult someone, and it has become known...it doesn't matter how good your work is, I wouldn't want to work with you.
And, if the argument is "How I act online is different than in real life." Why do you act like such an asshole online?
In my opinion, that's at least as bad as being a douchebag in "both worlds".
Seems to me it needs a certain amount of deceptiveness or at least interesting double standards if someone is happily a dick online, while making sure they come across as nice people in real life, or wherever needed to make sure it doesn't interfere with their actual career.
I disagree with this and if you go though the history books on all creative levels, musicians,singers,actors,producers,directors,artists,writers you will find that they have not all been easy people to get along with but they have been dam good at what they do/did. Today particularly when it comes to art & music & media we have supervisors, managers and CEO's that want everything "their way" end of discussion that's the way I want it and if you don't agree you know where the exit is, few have any or very little artistic "talent" but end up through friendship-politics getting these positions and most of these guys and girls are very polite and politically correct on the internet, strange that:poly121:
If having a bad rep on the internet was the final "judgement" of who a person really is then the history of everything creative to date would be a stagnant pond, like I said before we are all becoming a bunch of yes sir yes sir 3 bags full sir politically correct drones and we better watch out what we say on our face book pages and forums or yet another bridge will be burnt, this is pure fear mongering madness to keep everyone in line and in their place.
Some people are ass holes and some are arrogant pricks, some are selfish pricks but who cares if they can produce bloody good work ? You are not sitting around drinking coffee and having a nice time of it chatting on the job, you are there to work for the end product and if everyone was the same it would be a right old barrel of laughs.
Look to what the person can bring to the end product and leave the rest to good old common sense, I presume most game artists possess some common sense not so sure about supervisors, managers and CEO's :poly124:
The brilliantly creative but hard to work with should really be off doing their own thing, not working in a studio. It's almost always better for an employer to have a reliable and reasonably skilled worker than a brilliant but unreliable one.
i think your comparison is off the mark for starters. if you work as a salaried/contracted artist for a studio, you're crew, not cast. a craftsman with an artist-job title, hired to do a specific job, more comparable to a movie set/costume creator or a player in an orchestra. you're working as part of a team - and no matter how good you are - you're still replaceable.
Yeah, you can do that all you want. I've been in a position to hire or advise for people coming on to my team. I have definitely gone through people's post history to see if they're a jerk or just how they present themselves in general. I don't look for your interests, political views, or anything like that. I will however see how you treat other people. Do you prop people up or tear them down? Do you respond well to criticism? I look at talent first and attitude second, but don't think for a moment that how you present yourself online has no consequence.
I've seen people get let go for being really difficult to work with or not hired because they were cocky jerks in their interviews(even with extensive skills and experience). I've never known of an artist that was so good that they couldn't be replaced. You end up spending a lot of time with your team, no one wants to spend it with someone who makes everyone else uncomfortable.
Also, I watched the film Whiplash. There has to be people like Fletcher who are art directors.