I don't know if it is even "working smart" in the case of most of these types of people.... Sadly. Boy, do I know a few of these types that have failed upwards, sadly happens more than it should.
It seems like most places hire the most incompetent people to do lead the people that do the work.
and trying to derive some (hopefully useful !) advice from it
Well for anybody who's still on the ladder not initialled E. A., have cache (i.e. good terms) with your employer, don't have minions to manage, have Sr. level, I'd find out if it's okay to be in the office for only 6 hours on non-meeting days, have Fridays off (except if there's some established office tradition for Fridays), and if you can check in and send work from home.
Why show up in the office to check the schedule if you can also check the spreadsheet at home via password access vpn.
In some companies you can ask for benefits, right? Whatever you'll feel makes you a better worker, ask if the office can accomodate that. Maybe for some it's not so much work outside the office but for me who's done years of staff and remote freelance and now also a parent, this is the type of extra I would seek.
Maybe in exchange for less salary than market rate or I meet agreed upon performance benchmarks.
IF you're Sr. level.
If you're still jr. level I don't think you have a lot of leverage.
Oh I see what you mean. Yes, over the years I have seen some employees make arrangements to sometimes work from home instead of from the office for some very specific reasons. But this is a very different topic from "doing extra work for free in order to impress", which is something I would never advise anyone to do as it can create destructive team dynamics, and that is precisely what I believe the OP was worried about.
Also, in a healthy team, Jr and Sr staff are not treated any differently, because that too could cause caustic situations. But of course not every work environment is perfect in that regard, especially if/when cliques start to form.
YellowYeti: no problem at all man, glad you enjoyed it. That thread has a few stories like that too, I think you'll find most (at least the older guys here) have a path that isn't exactly linear. You'll also find that plenty of people will speak out about how shitty the industry can be, how it burnt them out or fucked them over, but keep in mind that it's easier to complain than to fix something.
Also, I'll just tip toe around the "incompetent people become leads" thing as I may be guilty of that myself...only time will tell!
Hi, I'm not a game developer but I guess, every job has its pros and cons. I think, it depends on the company or the developer. It could be fun working and learning more in a gaming industry especially if you have created something nice. Though, you will have to be a quick learner if there is very less adaptation time given. The cons here is actually the deadline of your project:)
Why should I stay late (10 hours and up) as an on-site staff artist, really just for "show" to impress a manager, when I could go home after my 8 hours and pull in another hour or two of optional work towards the office gamedev. If this can be arranged with your office managers take advantage of it. Your office has an ftp for the contractors, why can't you send work from home too if you're not breaking any ndas.
It depends on your management. I've been through various types of management teams and there are unfortunately some who don't care about work done at home or on the weekends. All they care about is the number of hours your ass is in your chair at the office. You could be fucking off all night but if you're physically in the office, you're a hero. The sucker who left at 5pm to go home and get 4 hours of quality work done last night is the chump in their eyes. Not a team player.
It's because for all of it's shortcomings, you're working with like-minded people in a pretty liberal environment making game art. And making a living. It's hard to beat that combo.
It's because for all of it's shortcomings, you're working with like-minded people in a pretty liberal environment making game art. And making a living. It's hard to beat that combo.
No way man, in my experience you finish your work you get someone elses work to do because lets be honest, we all know theres *somebody* in every art department who doesn't pull their weight. The more efficient you are, the more you pull other peoples weight for them. It's a pretty nihilistic view perhaps but it really is a reflection of what my experience has been like.
Is this on a daily basis, or just during crunch? In my experience, I've always had a list of things to do throughout my projects. I pluck away at the list each day. Most items have a time estimate. As long as I am getting them done in accordance to that time estimate, I don't sweat leaving after my 8 hours. If it comes to crunch, then certain things get prioritized, and absolutely, the faster you are, the most you help out others who have higher priority stuff than you. But that's where the whole team work comes into play. Each person has a to-do list, sure. But you`re working on 1 project, and each persons to-do list comes from one huge to-do list. It's not like you finish yours and just phone it in the rest of the project.
All I was saying before is that if you feel obligated to stay late every day / week, then it's possible there is something wrong at your studio. Newbies tend to stay late to try and prove themselves. That always happens. I did it. I'm sure a lot of you did it. But over time you realize that it's just not worth it. Then you have the studios that have the competition mentality, where if you leave before a certain time, you`re viewed as weak, a slacker, or incompetent. Not really a morale booster, and a good way to burn out fast. Then, you have the slackers who surf the net all day, don't get their stuff done in accordance to their time estimates, so they have to stay late almost daily to get it done. I'm sorry, but I`m not going to stay late every day to help pick up their slack. I`d rather wait till the leads notice what's going on (and they will notice), they get in shit, then I help out when asked. I`ll also help them out if they ask me themselves. It's hard to turn down a coworker when they ask for help. But until then, I`m going to get my own to-do list done in a timely manner, and I`m going to leave at a decent time. Sometimes it will be after my 8. Sometimes it will be later, depending on how focused / close I am to the end of a task. But I`m sure as hell not going to feel guilty about living a balanced life just because others choose not to. People with families tend to leave earlier than single people. So because I`m single, I should have to stay late? nah. I put in my time each day. Even more so during crunch.
That said, there are those who just choose to stay late because they love their jobs. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, as long as they, and their leads, don't consider it the standard and force it on everyone else. It shouldn't affect your performance review because someone else is choosing to stay late for the sake of it.
In my experience, the best leads tend to be those who tell people to go home after a certain point. They are the ones who don't want people staying late constantly. They want them to live a balanced life. They want them to not burn out. And they are the ones who stand up to tough deadlines when they aren't realistic without killing their team. They`re also the ones who are right there beside you when shit hits the fan, and are walking out the door beside you late at night when crunch hits.
Someone said it earlier, more people need to start saying no to unrealistic deadlines and unnecessary crunch. Change can happen, but only if everyone tries together.
EDIT: I should mention, Ive been very fortunate so far where I haven't had to deal with slackers much. I've been on some fantastic teams, where everyone pulls their weight. So I guess I haven't been put in that situation where I've had to pick up after someone, and could act differently than ive said above, if put in that situation. So far I've just had to help out during crunch / important deadlines.
I dunno, if I can get through my workload and can pull some tasks from someone else, then so be it. I've got a product to ship and I want to take pride in it.
If someone else isn't pulling their weight, that isn't strictly my responsibility and management can deal with that, but the product I'm shipping is my responsibility and I'll damn well do what I can to make sure it's as good as it can be (but I won't be pulling overtime often out of crunch - overtime for the sake of overtime is silly).
Oh absolutely, Ambershee! That's kind of what I was getting at with the 1 large to-do list. I was just saying that it's pretty rare that I've had an empty to-do list, so taking tasks off of slackers on a typical day is pretty slim. And of course when certain deadlines like E3 or whatever are coming up, you all pitch in where need be. I always take pride in my work. But there is a very fine line of taking pride in your work / wanting the project to succeed, and being taken advantage of.
One one hand, crunch and other shitty scenarios happens because of poor management. Sometimes however, poor management happens because of no communication from below. So there are developers that become frustrated from the amount of work they have, but they never bring it up with the management or leads because they are afraid of conflicts.
Even if you are in a junior position, speak up early. Sometimes poor management happen because there is no information to base good decisions on. If management only sees results, but not HOW those results happen, then they won't spend time to ask you how it got done.
As others have said. If you work extra hours to get things done, you say so to your leads. Otherwise they will count the performance as being done during normal hours. You should also rarely, if ever, work overtime without pay. You are not a slave.
You shall never complain on the upper management if you haven't communicated the problem in time. On the other hand, if the management is incompetent. Try to educate them in a reasonable manner and aim for improvement. (they are but people too you know) If no results happen over time, I would suggest changing company.
The burnout is not worth it. It took me five years to recover from a burnout myself. I'd rather be jobless and fight that front than ever go through the burnout again. The burnout is that thing that people deny exists until it happens to themselves. Don't ever go there, no matter what goals you have.
It has already been said, work smart - not hard. Most consumers don't give a fuck about the extra, unnecessary, details we drool over on the art on these forums. Food on the table and good health should always be top priority. A healthy mind and body will always outperform a stressed out mess anyway.
From my stance on the topic of this thread is this...
It really comes down to your own attitude you bring with you to your work place. If you take control of your life and bring a positive attitude to your work. You will do fine, even in the (what many consider shit jobs to work at) it's a pretty practical approach to life in general.
Life is what you make it, not what life makes of you. So replace (life) with (jobs) and you'll do fine.
My experience has been nothing but positive. Practically no overtime whatsoever, interesting & challenging work, great team, great atmosphere and good perks. It will vary greatly from studio to studio, though.
This is a joke, right? Unpaid overtime is like, literally the status quo in the games industry.
In my experience, and I don't mean to offend anyone, but that's the sort of thing people say when they're sitting around and talking about work. Not when they're actually AT work and it's 9pm and there's a ton left to do and non of their co-workers are leaving yet ...
Of course it wouldn't be that obvious - but still, there can be some red flags. It's mostly a matter of realizing that a job interview is a great time to interview the company wanting to hire you just as much as it is a time for its employees to interview you.
In my experience, and I don't mean to offend anyone, but that's the sort of thing people say when they're sitting around and talking about work. Not when they're actually AT work and it's 9pm and there's a ton left to do and non of their co-workers are leaving yet ...
I feel like this acceptance of being exploited for the gains of a few, as some sort of status quo is ridiculously detrimental to the health of this industry.
We're loosing top tier talent all of the time because people are doing work for free, setting up false expectations of productivity, and forcing everyone into overworking and burning out and being generally underpaid for a profession which requires an extreme level of commitment to actually stay relevant even at NORMAL hours of engagement.
I've never once since I started in this industry worked off the clock if it wasn't paid.
I spent any extra hours learning how to get better at art instead of pouring it into a studio project, where it would have be unrecognized and accepted as my BASE output, instead of extra.
Studios need to learn what is realistic and adapt to get projects done on time, encouraging their producers to actually learn how to help productivity instead of documenting time and tasks; workers should learn to be more efficient and not lean on always using extra hours to get things done.
I think it's wise to get a feel for who you are as that will determine how you will fit:
Situation: A milestone is approaching, the art team is behind. Extra unpaid hours are required by everyone to help chip in and get the game over the line. The hours are mandatory, your standard work day just went from 8 hours to 10 - 12 hours maybe 6 days a week for the next month.
How does that make you feel? If that sounds okay to you, because the project is cool, the team is cool, the people you work with are rad, your partner is very patient and accepting then it doesn't matter does it?
Anomalies: Some people are slacking, go home early, avoid overtime / slack off while the majority are busting ass and pulling their dead weight. Dissent kicks up, there are bad apples talking shit about leaving, jumping ship, talking about how the grass is greener etc
How do you feel now? If you still dont mind, then you will probably be fine working in any game studio across the globe, as that's pretty much the worst scenario in my experience as far as unpaid overtime goes.
If you dont feel good about any of that, what parts? If you think Money will make your feelings different about any of those things you dont feel good about, in my experience its only a temporary tonic, soon it wont be enough money to keep slogging and the things will continue to bother you. Stay there for long enough and you will probably become one of the bad apples that annoyed the shit out of you to begin with.
It's a fucking rad place to work. I spent 11 years in games. You get to create entertainment, do fun things and be part of a group of fairly likeminded people pushing a project over the finish line. You can / will create lifelong friends maybe even find a partner
Just stay out of the coolaid, stay true to yourself, dont let cash be the driving factor in your job satisfaction, and you should honestly be fine.
Remember, if you already feel shitty about the work situation, a little more cash only covers it up temporarily.
Salary does not include overtime pay, that is only for hourly rate positions, you probably knew that anyhow
Salary is a little better because you can divide up your expenses for the year, hourly you don't know week to week. One week good, one week bad, not a way to live.
Salary does not include overtime pay, that is only for hourly rate positions, you probably knew that anyhow
Salary is a little better because you can divide up your expenses for the year, hourly you don't know week to week. One week good, one week bad, not a way to live.
Yea, I guess I'm surprised so many people talk about overtime as though they're hourly. I assumed most game studios paid salaries.
I spent any extra hours learning how to get better at art instead of pouring it into a studio project, where it would have be unrecognized and accepted as my BASE output, instead of extra.
Yea this for sure.
Every night I'm home I am working on a personal project to learn something new that I hope will make me a more valuable employee to the company.
Overall, my experience at Hi-Rez (about 4 months now) has been pretty smooth overall. There have been a few frustrating days/weeks but overall I am enjoying my time here and could not see myself in another line of work.
Incidentally, regarding salary / overtime. Here in NZ both places ive worked at do not pay salaries but treat every employee as a contractor. So im paid for every hour I put in. If I need a little more cash this week and there is work to be done, everyone wins. It keeps managers honest, and deadlines become generally manageable with very little surprise overtime required.
50 Hours here but overtime hourly rate is time and a half ie if your hourly rate is 50 bucks an hour and you do 56 hours that week, 6 of those hours will be at $75 an hour.
At my last job here I didn't get time and a half, it was a flat hourly rate that was paid out however many hours you worked. Still better than getting paid for 40 hours and never getting anything for any extra time which has been the majority of my career.
Dont know if your asking me, or generally the thread but here ill lay it out for you right up until recently. Not disclosing what I earn now though.
In USD.
Started freelancing and made about 10k my first year heh.
made about 25k second year.
about 60k 3rd year.
I then got a job inhouse for 40k per year.
Bumped to 45k per year. eventually 52k per year.
Freelanced and was making about 60-90k per year for a couple of years.
went back inhouse for a change for 85k.
Eventually ended up on 93k.
Back to freelance for a couple of years consistantly earning about 100k per year.
Have been offered inhouse jobs for much larger sums but haven't taken them for various reasons. Now right where I want to be, doing what I enjoy most right now.
hope that helps - that's over a span of about 11 years as a character artist in nz, australia, usa.
edit: There is a year in there around 2 - 3 year mark where I earned basically nothing as I tried to focus on getting better as an artist the jump in earnings came after taht time was spent ie it was worth it.
Are most of you paid hourly? Rocking timesheets and all that? Most salaried people I know don't get paid overtime wages.
All contracts I have touched states a monthly wage based on a typical 8 hours schedule, 5 times a week. If you work more than that, you are doing more than you signed up for and the company does not have any power to force you to stay extra, legally speaking.
Then, back home in Sweden, it is usually defined as a salary that is calculated as roughly 168h per month. Overtime is based on that hourly rate. Even when you work in factories, it's by law.
Just so that no one misunderstands. I DO put in extra overtime hours myself at times, because I believe in the project I work in and that I some days don't have anything better to do. I still make sure I don't try to kill myself slowly in the process. Life is so much more than being a workaholic.
"Oh yeah, we crunch every project. 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, baby!", said nobody in an interview ever.
EDIT : However, if they DO say that ... run.
I remember the first question asked of me (for a studio that's no longer around) "How do you feel about 'Crunch'".
I told them I usually voluntarily do 60ish hours a week or so for a couple of weeks leading into a major deadline.
They laughed.
They told me 60 hours a week was their 'normal' work week, and their crunches were between 100-120 Hours a week (mandatory weekends).
I told them I simply was NOT interested in anything like, to which they started to chastise me, telling me I didn't have the Balls to work there, and I wasn't 'Hardcore' enough, and called me a fucking pussy, which is about the time I hung up on them.
So yes, those places do exist. But not all places are like that.
@dustin I know man, im waiting for someone to message me threatening legal action and ask me to redact all of the figures from that post! It's happened for revealing much less! *cough* wireframes *cough*.
If you put in 40 hours overtime they'll let you have a week off?
That sounds pretty fair to me but it would also make sense to have a cap on how much of that time you can build up. At the IRS it's called "credit hours" and there's a limit of 24 beyond which you aren't allowed to accumulate more. Of course you aren't paid for that time off; you're just moving the work around from one time to another.
If you put in 40 hours overtime they'll let you have a week off?
No no. Its never a 1:1 compensation. Its usually just a 'we saw you working lots. Heres a few extra vacation days.' Sometimes its a set ratio like for every 8 extra hours, you get .25 vaca days. It varies by studio. It's not as good as getting paid for it, but it helps.
It really comes down to your own attitude you bring with you to your work place. If you take control of your life and bring a positive attitude to your work.
Problem is...when you're in an office situation even if you have a positive inner attitude there are/ will be co-worker douchebags who'll test your positive outlook for the duration of a project which can go on for years.
I've been yelled at twice by two different sr. artists for stuff that's no fault of my own. First time my attitude was...wtf. Second time I had to speak up for myself cuz nobody would care.
So, find your balance for your inner self (work vs life outside of the office) and if you're just starting out don't allow yourself to be taken advantage of. To be bullied to submit to harsh conditions.
Say no if you have to say no. Use your HR department if you're not the deal-with-this-asshole-directly-yourself type of person.
EDIT: Just to add if you join a company and a person has more years than you doesn't give them a right to lecture you or criticize you for your custom monitor settings (fucking sys admin guy! :poly118: )
Assholes are in every job, they are your boss or supervisor or both, they are your co-workers etc.
Co-workers won't back you up, your lucky if one supports you, and really lucky if you have two or three who support you, but your basically on your own. Even if a co-worker wants to step in, it's not in his position too, so he has no choice but to keep it mouth shut.
The horrible world of working for someone, and with other people.
Then your day can get worse, when the cashier decides to charge you more for what your paying for, when the price tag is less; and she has the gumption to act like she is loosing money.
Problem is...when you're in an office situation even if you have a positive inner attitude there are/ will be co-worker douchebags who'll test your positive outlook for the duration of a project which can go on for years.
OK, first there's no problem when you have a good attitude. Because persons who truly have it going positive don't attract negative attention. Yet if they do, and if they do. Your positivity will be recognized and acknowledged in the moment. Because it will be clear that's who you are, and what you like surrounding yourself with. The real difference here is to understand is it you with a problem? Or, is it the person communicating to you that has a problem?
Lastly, people who will test your positive outlook is just a thing with life entirely. Not just the workplace, or the industry alone... The better part I've come to understand is to really listen to people, and see if I can understand what kind of pain they're battling on the inside. Because when people have a jerk reaction to something, it's not because they're just negative energy life sucking vampires (or crabs in a bucket). It's just that they're going through pain they cannot maintain under control in their own lives.
Because the real truth about the types of people who work in this industry. Are far from experts of anything, except what they do within it. Most are humble, some are not. Which is a blessing if you can find those that truly are. I've found game developers (The only medium I've worked in so far to entertainment.) to be tough listeners. It's not the fault (I think) many would want to have. As many do walk with an ego of varying sizes to their environments. With very little role models to look up to, and to that point. Probably very few, to none at all in their life time. So it'd explain the lacking of courage in companies for a person, or persons to do the right things when the wrong behaviors come up at a moments notice.
Ultimately, I can state I've worked for some bad and lets capitalize that. BADplaces. Though the take away from them for me is that, I could have given up, throw in my chips and cashed out a while ago. I haven't simply, because I learned to listen to my peers, my surroundings, and most importantly, myself. All to the point that I could instead of counting up how bad things there were because of my job, and the people I was working with. I would instead merit the thought of counting how many things I was grateful for having, let alone experiencing.
I would suppose as a last statement as advice to anyone getting into this industry is to start counting, or write down as a challenge (300 or more things) on a piece of paper why you're grateful for your current job, game, etc. Because I]haha[/I I can't stress it enough in telling all of you, whom haven't gotten in (who read this post). Just how many employed developers are good at counting how many bad things they've got. The attitude of gratitude will work in your favor if you let it, and live it.
Replies
It seems like most places hire the most incompetent people to do lead the people that do the work.
There resume strictly needs to say "Are you an asshole", check off yes, go for the interview, the interviewee verifies, and there hired.
References and all that junk is just that, junk.
Well
Why show up in the office to check the schedule if you can also check the spreadsheet at home via password access vpn.
Maybe in exchange for less salary than market rate or I meet agreed upon performance benchmarks.
IF you're Sr. level.
If you're still jr. level I don't think you have a lot of leverage.
Also, in a healthy team, Jr and Sr staff are not treated any differently, because that too could cause caustic situations. But of course not every work environment is perfect in that regard, especially if/when cliques start to form.
I didn't mean it to go off tangent, I was just responding your post where you mentioned "advice".
I don't know your situation (but I know you're no jr. guy) so I wrote it generally speaking.
Also, I'll just tip toe around the "incompetent people become leads" thing as I may be guilty of that myself...only time will tell!
:poly118:
:poly136:
< Also
Slacker today = Studio producer in the future = YOUR top network link in da future
Their mediocrity now is your win in the future.
Life's not fair don't forget
Solid point
Is this on a daily basis, or just during crunch? In my experience, I've always had a list of things to do throughout my projects. I pluck away at the list each day. Most items have a time estimate. As long as I am getting them done in accordance to that time estimate, I don't sweat leaving after my 8 hours. If it comes to crunch, then certain things get prioritized, and absolutely, the faster you are, the most you help out others who have higher priority stuff than you. But that's where the whole team work comes into play. Each person has a to-do list, sure. But you`re working on 1 project, and each persons to-do list comes from one huge to-do list. It's not like you finish yours and just phone it in the rest of the project.
All I was saying before is that if you feel obligated to stay late every day / week, then it's possible there is something wrong at your studio. Newbies tend to stay late to try and prove themselves. That always happens. I did it. I'm sure a lot of you did it. But over time you realize that it's just not worth it. Then you have the studios that have the competition mentality, where if you leave before a certain time, you`re viewed as weak, a slacker, or incompetent. Not really a morale booster, and a good way to burn out fast. Then, you have the slackers who surf the net all day, don't get their stuff done in accordance to their time estimates, so they have to stay late almost daily to get it done. I'm sorry, but I`m not going to stay late every day to help pick up their slack. I`d rather wait till the leads notice what's going on (and they will notice), they get in shit, then I help out when asked. I`ll also help them out if they ask me themselves. It's hard to turn down a coworker when they ask for help. But until then, I`m going to get my own to-do list done in a timely manner, and I`m going to leave at a decent time. Sometimes it will be after my 8. Sometimes it will be later, depending on how focused / close I am to the end of a task. But I`m sure as hell not going to feel guilty about living a balanced life just because others choose not to. People with families tend to leave earlier than single people. So because I`m single, I should have to stay late? nah. I put in my time each day. Even more so during crunch.
That said, there are those who just choose to stay late because they love their jobs. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, as long as they, and their leads, don't consider it the standard and force it on everyone else. It shouldn't affect your performance review because someone else is choosing to stay late for the sake of it.
In my experience, the best leads tend to be those who tell people to go home after a certain point. They are the ones who don't want people staying late constantly. They want them to live a balanced life. They want them to not burn out. And they are the ones who stand up to tough deadlines when they aren't realistic without killing their team. They`re also the ones who are right there beside you when shit hits the fan, and are walking out the door beside you late at night when crunch hits.
Someone said it earlier, more people need to start saying no to unrealistic deadlines and unnecessary crunch. Change can happen, but only if everyone tries together.
EDIT: I should mention, Ive been very fortunate so far where I haven't had to deal with slackers much. I've been on some fantastic teams, where everyone pulls their weight. So I guess I haven't been put in that situation where I've had to pick up after someone, and could act differently than ive said above, if put in that situation. So far I've just had to help out during crunch / important deadlines.
If someone else isn't pulling their weight, that isn't strictly my responsibility and management can deal with that, but the product I'm shipping is my responsibility and I'll damn well do what I can to make sure it's as good as it can be (but I won't be pulling overtime often out of crunch - overtime for the sake of overtime is silly).
Even if you are in a junior position, speak up early. Sometimes poor management happen because there is no information to base good decisions on. If management only sees results, but not HOW those results happen, then they won't spend time to ask you how it got done.
As others have said. If you work extra hours to get things done, you say so to your leads. Otherwise they will count the performance as being done during normal hours. You should also rarely, if ever, work overtime without pay. You are not a slave.
You shall never complain on the upper management if you haven't communicated the problem in time. On the other hand, if the management is incompetent. Try to educate them in a reasonable manner and aim for improvement. (they are but people too you know) If no results happen over time, I would suggest changing company.
The burnout is not worth it. It took me five years to recover from a burnout myself. I'd rather be jobless and fight that front than ever go through the burnout again. The burnout is that thing that people deny exists until it happens to themselves. Don't ever go there, no matter what goals you have.
It has already been said, work smart - not hard. Most consumers don't give a fuck about the extra, unnecessary, details we drool over on the art on these forums. Food on the table and good health should always be top priority. A healthy mind and body will always outperform a stressed out mess anyway.
This is a joke, right? Unpaid overtime is like, literally the status quo in the games industry.
It really comes down to your own attitude you bring with you to your work place. If you take control of your life and bring a positive attitude to your work. You will do fine, even in the (what many consider shit jobs to work at) it's a pretty practical approach to life in general.
Life is what you make it, not what life makes of you. So replace (life) with (jobs) and you'll do fine.
In my experience, and I don't mean to offend anyone, but that's the sort of thing people say when they're sitting around and talking about work. Not when they're actually AT work and it's 9pm and there's a ton left to do and non of their co-workers are leaving yet ...
No it's not - it depends on the studio ! And job interviews can be a good time to test the waters on that subject.
EDIT : However, if they DO say that ... run.
I feel like this acceptance of being exploited for the gains of a few, as some sort of status quo is ridiculously detrimental to the health of this industry.
We're loosing top tier talent all of the time because people are doing work for free, setting up false expectations of productivity, and forcing everyone into overworking and burning out and being generally underpaid for a profession which requires an extreme level of commitment to actually stay relevant even at NORMAL hours of engagement.
I've never once since I started in this industry worked off the clock if it wasn't paid.
I spent any extra hours learning how to get better at art instead of pouring it into a studio project, where it would have be unrecognized and accepted as my BASE output, instead of extra.
Studios need to learn what is realistic and adapt to get projects done on time, encouraging their producers to actually learn how to help productivity instead of documenting time and tasks; workers should learn to be more efficient and not lean on always using extra hours to get things done.
/rant
Situation: A milestone is approaching, the art team is behind. Extra unpaid hours are required by everyone to help chip in and get the game over the line. The hours are mandatory, your standard work day just went from 8 hours to 10 - 12 hours maybe 6 days a week for the next month.
How does that make you feel? If that sounds okay to you, because the project is cool, the team is cool, the people you work with are rad, your partner is very patient and accepting then it doesn't matter does it?
Anomalies: Some people are slacking, go home early, avoid overtime / slack off while the majority are busting ass and pulling their dead weight. Dissent kicks up, there are bad apples talking shit about leaving, jumping ship, talking about how the grass is greener etc
How do you feel now? If you still dont mind, then you will probably be fine working in any game studio across the globe, as that's pretty much the worst scenario in my experience as far as unpaid overtime goes.
If you dont feel good about any of that, what parts? If you think Money will make your feelings different about any of those things you dont feel good about, in my experience its only a temporary tonic, soon it wont be enough money to keep slogging and the things will continue to bother you. Stay there for long enough and you will probably become one of the bad apples that annoyed the shit out of you to begin with.
It's a fucking rad place to work. I spent 11 years in games. You get to create entertainment, do fun things and be part of a group of fairly likeminded people pushing a project over the finish line. You can / will create lifelong friends maybe even find a partner
Just stay out of the coolaid, stay true to yourself, dont let cash be the driving factor in your job satisfaction, and you should honestly be fine.
Remember, if you already feel shitty about the work situation, a little more cash only covers it up temporarily.
Salary is a little better because you can divide up your expenses for the year, hourly you don't know week to week. One week good, one week bad, not a way to live.
Yea, I guess I'm surprised so many people talk about overtime as though they're hourly. I assumed most game studios paid salaries.
Yea this for sure.
Every night I'm home I am working on a personal project to learn something new that I hope will make me a more valuable employee to the company.
Overall, my experience at Hi-Rez (about 4 months now) has been pretty smooth overall. There have been a few frustrating days/weeks but overall I am enjoying my time here and could not see myself in another line of work.
At my last job here I didn't get time and a half, it was a flat hourly rate that was paid out however many hours you worked. Still better than getting paid for 40 hours and never getting anything for any extra time which has been the majority of my career.
In USD.
Started freelancing and made about 10k my first year heh.
made about 25k second year.
about 60k 3rd year.
I then got a job inhouse for 40k per year.
Bumped to 45k per year. eventually 52k per year.
Freelanced and was making about 60-90k per year for a couple of years.
went back inhouse for a change for 85k.
Eventually ended up on 93k.
Back to freelance for a couple of years consistantly earning about 100k per year.
Have been offered inhouse jobs for much larger sums but haven't taken them for various reasons. Now right where I want to be, doing what I enjoy most right now.
hope that helps - that's over a span of about 11 years as a character artist in nz, australia, usa.
edit: There is a year in there around 2 - 3 year mark where I earned basically nothing as I tried to focus on getting better as an artist the jump in earnings came after taht time was spent ie it was worth it.
Then, back home in Sweden, it is usually defined as a salary that is calculated as roughly 168h per month. Overtime is based on that hourly rate. Even when you work in factories, it's by law.
Just so that no one misunderstands. I DO put in extra overtime hours myself at times, because I believe in the project I work in and that I some days don't have anything better to do. I still make sure I don't try to kill myself slowly in the process. Life is so much more than being a workaholic.
I remember the first question asked of me (for a studio that's no longer around) "How do you feel about 'Crunch'".
I told them I usually voluntarily do 60ish hours a week or so for a couple of weeks leading into a major deadline.
They laughed.
They told me 60 hours a week was their 'normal' work week, and their crunches were between 100-120 Hours a week (mandatory weekends).
I told them I simply was NOT interested in anything like, to which they started to chastise me, telling me I didn't have the Balls to work there, and I wasn't 'Hardcore' enough, and called me a fucking pussy, which is about the time I hung up on them.
So yes, those places do exist. But not all places are like that.
That sounds pretty fair to me but it would also make sense to have a cap on how much of that time you can build up. At the IRS it's called "credit hours" and there's a limit of 24 beyond which you aren't allowed to accumulate more. Of course you aren't paid for that time off; you're just moving the work around from one time to another.
No no. Its never a 1:1 compensation. Its usually just a 'we saw you working lots. Heres a few extra vacation days.' Sometimes its a set ratio like for every 8 extra hours, you get .25 vaca days. It varies by studio. It's not as good as getting paid for it, but it helps.
Problem is...when you're in an office situation even if you have a positive inner attitude there are/ will be co-worker douchebags who'll test your positive outlook for the duration of a project which can go on for years.
I've been yelled at twice by two different sr. artists for stuff that's no fault of my own. First time my attitude was...wtf. Second time I had to speak up for myself cuz nobody would care.
So, find your balance for your inner self (work vs life outside of the office) and if you're just starting out don't allow yourself to be taken advantage of. To be bullied to submit to harsh conditions.
Say no if you have to say no. Use your HR department if you're not the deal-with-this-asshole-directly-yourself type of person.
EDIT: Just to add if you join a company and a person has more years than you doesn't give them a right to lecture you or criticize you for your custom monitor settings (fucking sys admin guy! :poly118: )
Co-workers won't back you up, your lucky if one supports you, and really lucky if you have two or three who support you, but your basically on your own. Even if a co-worker wants to step in, it's not in his position too, so he has no choice but to keep it mouth shut.
The horrible world of working for someone, and with other people.
Then your day can get worse, when the cashier decides to charge you more for what your paying for, when the price tag is less; and she has the gumption to act like she is loosing money.
Lastly, people who will test your positive outlook is just a thing with life entirely. Not just the workplace, or the industry alone... The better part I've come to understand is to really listen to people, and see if I can understand what kind of pain they're battling on the inside. Because when people have a jerk reaction to something, it's not because they're just negative energy life sucking vampires (or crabs in a bucket). It's just that they're going through pain they cannot maintain under control in their own lives.
Because the real truth about the types of people who work in this industry. Are far from experts of anything, except what they do within it. Most are humble, some are not. Which is a blessing if you can find those that truly are. I've found game developers (The only medium I've worked in so far to entertainment.) to be tough listeners. It's not the fault (I think) many would want to have. As many do walk with an ego of varying sizes to their environments. With very little role models to look up to, and to that point. Probably very few, to none at all in their life time. So it'd explain the lacking of courage in companies for a person, or persons to do the right things when the wrong behaviors come up at a moments notice.
Ultimately, I can state I've worked for some bad and lets capitalize that. BAD places. Though the take away from them for me is that, I could have given up, throw in my chips and cashed out a while ago. I haven't simply, because I learned to listen to my peers, my surroundings, and most importantly, myself. All to the point that I could instead of counting up how bad things there were because of my job, and the people I was working with. I would instead merit the thought of counting how many things I was grateful for having, let alone experiencing.
I would suppose as a last statement as advice to anyone getting into this industry is to start counting, or write down as a challenge (300 or more things) on a piece of paper why you're grateful for your current job, game, etc. Because I]haha[/I I can't stress it enough in telling all of you, whom haven't gotten in (who read this post). Just how many employed developers are good at counting how many bad things they've got. The attitude of gratitude will work in your favor if you let it, and live it.