we, largely 30 year old males, still make scantly clad teenage girls for other 30 year old males to look at.
such as? i can't think of many games that feature scantily clad teenage girls that aren't from korean or japanese studios, and they have different cultural values to westerners.
such as? i can't think of many games that feature scantily clad teenage girls that aren't from korean or japanese studios, and they have different cultural values to westerners.
maybe you could argue that some of them arent technically teenage, but i think it still is valid, since what i wrote was concerning fanservice, which these three examples clearly are IMO.
@TAN, if you REALLY want mixmatch between human and animal (and not a chimera), may I suggest this for the title ?? "ZEUS CANNOT KEEP HIS DICK INSIDE HIS PANTS" Challenge
@Odow Hmmmmmm........ I would join you in on the Penis Tank Challenge if you manage to get it going with other people... Cuz I missed out on it when it was the thing
Reworking some of these characters so that they make anatomical and evolutionary sense might actually make for a fun personal challenge.
If you roll with the scenario that the centaur has more developed mammaries to cope with the greater milk production required to feed a centaur foal, that foal is going to need to be able to reach them. that means she's either going to need to be able to easily carry around a heavy, squirmy horse-baby meaning some significant upper body strength (in addition to what she'll need to stop her spine snapping like a twig with those great sacs of fat flailing about while she's galloping), or her milk production would make more sense to be placed on her horse belly.
While we're looking at bellies, where are her vital organs? Does she actually need a rib cage in her human part? If not, what kind of bone structure do those arms need? What purpose have did they evolve for in the first place? She's not likely to be climbing any trees.
et cetra. As a artistic exercise in character design and thinking way, way to hard about things, it might be quite interesting.
@TAN, if you REALLY want mixmatch between human and animal (and not a chimera), may I suggest this for the title ?? "ZEUS CANNOT KEEP HIS DICK INSIDE HIS PANTS" Challenge
maybe you could argue that some of them arent technically teenage, but i think it still is valid, since what i wrote was concerning fanservice, which these three examples clearly are IMO.
they clearly aren't teenagers. you made a sweeping generalisation that games and artists are sexualising teenagers with nothing to back it up
what? how do you know? and with such certainty? i hope you have the art lead from blizzard saying "no, the body for the overwatch girl, was SOLELY insipired by 18+ female body shapes and nothing else!" as a source, otherwise this discussion is pretty meaningless.
i also find it weird that you object against my generalization. if i say something else like "there sure is a lot of voilence in video games" are you going "No, thats false, please show games with guns versus games without ratio or else your wrong!"?
i mean, its obvouis that my statement from the beginning was a vague, sweeping generalization, that assumed there is somekind of general knowledge.
and i even try to make it less vague with giving you examples but you discard those, because you know for sure they dont look teenage? even to me or anyone else i guess?
if you want something else than to "win" this discussion, try to understand my viewpoint before arguing against it.
there is nothing to win. i take issue with you calling the games industry and artists a bunch of 30 year olds sexualising teenagers. i ask you to show me some of these characters and you respond with cortana and widowmaker who aren't teenagers, their body shape is irrelevant, humans come in a huge variety of shapes and sizes. and lol? there's a fuck load of variety in the game that it's a useless example.
i've tried to see it from your point of view, but i don't see what your basis for it is.
my viewpoint is that games aren't full of teenage girls dressed like strippers
to make it clear, i take issue with you saying games and artists sexualise teenagers.
It's very rare for Western games to feature teenagers that are depicted the same way the Japanese do. Especially as it makes them targets of flagging by Publishers.
The only game I can think of in recent memory is Skullgirls. Although there's only one teenager and the studio as a whole is influenced by Japan so that's likely why they're brazen enough to do it.
okey, before more confusion ensues, let me explain, in case you didnt read the thread before posting.
mattQ86 posts a video where some girl talks about sexism in specific animes, which contains high amounts young girls in sexulised situatuions and outfits. she says something like, yes its kind of lame but people grow out.
i replied, pointing out that we still have the same contrived sexiness regarding female characters in videogames, and we havent showed any signs of growing up. my wording was "we, largely 30 year old males, still make scantly clad teenage girls for other 30 year old males to look at"
then marine replies to me, totally missing my point, and pointing out that i cant prove that all characters in western videogames are teenage... i guess?
this to me is stupid, beacuse firstly, you totally ignoring the point i was making, secoundly what is the defenition of "teenage"? is there an actaul age or something?
and thirldy while i cant prove it, since i dont have all the lore of all female characters ever, we defenatly are sexualising YOUNG WOMEN then. and if that is a huge deal somehow, that i should have written "young" instead of "teenage", i can only shake my head since that is somehow going deeper into missing-the-point land.
and i can easily stand by that, that we, as a industry is to the majority a bunch of 30 year old males sexualizing young women, when it comes to female characters. i can withdraw teenage if you like, i dont know why though, does it take away some percived pedophile stamp or something? that we are somehow slightly, itty bitty better than the japanese, since we dont explicitly state that the female characters we show almost naked are under 18? gee way to aim high
and i can easily stand by that, that we, as a industry is to the majority a bunch of 30 year old males sexualizing young women, when it comes to female characters. i can withdraw teenage if you like, i dont know why though, does it take away some percived pedophile stamp or something? that we are somehow slightly, itty bitty better than the japanese, since we dont explicitly state that the female characters we show almost naked are under 18? gee way to aim high
Young women, and young, healthy humans in general represent the ideallic standard of beauty. This isn't a recent thing nor does it have anything to do with the game industry or perverted 30 year old men or anything like that.
Young, attractive people are more frequently sexualized in any media than old, fat, and/or ugly people. There are some interesting studies related to how youthful appearances and various other physical characteristics relates to attraction (some of it down to basic survival/protection instincts) if you're keen to learn (sorry, can't remember specific sources at this time).
Sure, but this again is not exclusive to 30 year old game developers. It's something seen across all media and has everything to do with societal norms and little to do with games. Theres probably an interesting, healthy conversation in here somewhere, but shaming groups of people isn't going to get us there.
from what I've seen, movies are a little better, followed by comics and then literature. We're only slightly ahead of hotrod magazines. Can't we aspire to more than just portfolios full of booth babes? But don't mind me, I'm just lamenting a community I used to love, I'll be done with you guys in a few years.
I'd rate comics higher because of outfits like Image. If you work in main stream games you HAVE to have boob windows, no argument.
It's interesting that the game industry (in the US at least) employs more people of Asian descent than the general population which has led to push back against racist Asian stereotypes in games. I'd say more women in games would fix that but we fucked that up royally with the whole organized terror campaign against women developers, haven't we?
I mean, if you watch anime and read manga, you will know that fan service is EVERYWHERE. And ecchi stuff is also very common. And harem or reverse-harem (as some call it) is also quite normal.
Yea that's the trend that makes me watch less and less anime these days. Sad but true Like this breasts right here... that's not sexy, that's absurd. Quality anime with enough substance is getting rarer by the day. Baragamond, Titan, Silver Spoon, Parasyte are all I kept in my hard drive these recent years.
Yea that's the trend that makes me watch less and less anime these days. Sad but true Like this breasts right here... that's not sexy, that's absurd. Quality anime with enough substance is getting rarer by the day. Baragamond, Titan, Silver Spoon, Parasyte are all I kept in my hard drive these recent years.
Well, not just the obvious big boobs like that example; it's very common for anime/manga to have the fan service chapters/pages/scenes. There's always that chapter where the group goes to the beach/swimming pool and all wear bikini, run someone over and her skirt's lifted as she falls, the guy accidentally grab her boobs for balance or something. Or, you know, just shower scene.
But then again; sex scenes seem more acceptable in the West. Because it's normal to have sex I suppose ? Just. regular. and. normal. sex. Even though sometimes they don't add anything to the story or character development. Just. sex. scenes.
Sorry OP, I guess people got too caught up in vilifying art, infantilizing women and calling things problematic to bother with a creative take on some subject used in an anime.
from what I've seen, movies are a little better, followed by comics and then literature. We're only slightly ahead of hotrod magazines. Can't we aspire to more than just portfolios full of booth babes? But don't mind me, I'm just lamenting a community I used to love, I'll be done with you guys in a few years.
I'm curious what do you think of the fashion industry?
As that is arguing more toxic to women, then games, comics and movies. Yet feminist don't blame men for fashion industry problem. Nor do i hear feminist say we can fix fashion industries problem of using really young teenage women and models with BMIs less than 16 by having more women in the industry.
A good example is the above, you can say hey video game industry is so bad because look they use booth babes for every character, but so does everyone else. There is a reason they don't use DOVE beauty campaign women to sell bras. Like if the above is the best example of a normal size women, then there is something seriously wrong with it. I don't even want to post French runway models from a few years ago.
But, who do you blame for problem in fashion industry. As in video games it gets blamed on virgin awkward men who can't talk to women.
Whoever first thought of making women walk down runway in bikini and look so proud of herself and everyone else drools over her is a truly a genius. A fking genius. I guess if they can be proud of themselves, then they don't feel the objectification of it... Who would have thought.
Half-Human half-animal mythological creature contest would make more sense then a 'Monster Girls' one since it causes this sort of debate. With the exception of the slime, all of the ones mentioned in the op do exist in mythology after all (yes, even the Spider Women). There are tons of such examples in mythology that could be drawn from.
Also, if your looking for manga that treats this sort of subject more respectfully then the one listed in the op, I would recommend Centaur no Nayami.
Whoever first thought of making women walk down runway in bikini and look so proud of herself and everyone else drools over her is a truly a genius. A fking genius. I guess if they can be proud of themselves, then they don't feel the objectification of it... Who would have thought.
At least gaming doesn't have the issue of tanning every body.
Holy crap Tyra banks just blends in there don't she?
You know much like artists I imagine fashion designers see enough gorgeous naked bodies the idea of "revealing" being sexual might be lost on them :P
I mean am I the only one here who's looking at this and casually judging their figures and outfits instead of their hotness?
Because nobody cares what you want other people to do, you're not an admin or a moderator after all, you can't forced people to do something. So people are just going to keep answer back to people here, the discussing start here, no one want to answer someone who post here on another thread because he'll probably not going to read. You just created 2 topic featuring the same crappy discussions that goes nowhere GJ.
Let's get specific then shall we ? About time period and rules and such.
- Can be any mashup or monster you can dream of.
- Can be any genre or any type.
- Can be 2D - 3D
So a few questions requiring your opiniosn.
- Should it be a firmly "character only" or can it also include environment art in any way ?
- it better be longer than 50-60 days because life is a busy thing, but then again. how long ?
- It is OK to keep it as a challenge I suppose. People would work on their preferred pieces as they wish without feeling pressure.
What do you mean by "we all agree" ? You might want to bring it up to the mods first if you want it to be an official PC challenge ; and if not, simply start your own mini TANchallenge in an individual thread ...
In other words, no need to overcomplicate things man
All I am saying is that if you want to help put together a Polycount event (that is to say, something that gets a lot of leverage from being advertised on a front page) the first logical step is to talk with the moderators, which would then help you refine the brief and theme. But if you want to create your own mini event, simply start it, anytime ! If people like the idea and the art being made, things will naturally move forward.
By all means this is not a way to shut you down, but rather, a suggestion that might actually help you get more positive reactions to the idea.
Also, one thing to maybe consider is that even though "contests" or "Civil Wars" sound cool and motivational, we might be at a point where the idea of competing in order to "win" is not really relevant anymore (unless there are valuable prices involved, but that's another story). I personally feel like laid back art events where everyone participates just for the sake of creating cool stuff are much more interesting.
Also before I get started on tomorrows June challenge I rather participate in an event where everyone or most will be involved in.
This can fall perfectly into a summer event that can be till August 1st (or whatever) and Starts tomorrow.
Wanting to participate a.s.a.p. but if its not "official", i don't know how much traffic the event will have and I enjoy feeding off other peoples vibes (posts of progress) not that I need it, it is just encouraging in its own way.
Guess i'll get in on the June thing and if any events pop up i'll hope off that and jump of the PC Event.
I really enjoyed the progress of the Brawl "challenges", so this can be PC Brawl II or something.
In all honesty i hate jumping off my 1st forums to go to other sites to get challenges. =./
Also it's Sunday where I am and if many are also on Sunday (mods) i don't see why this can't start up tomorrow.
Or I am just too excited for the possibility of more PC challenges.:poly122:
Well, remember that the Monthly Envo/Character/Handpainted/Firearms and a few others challenges we been having are all unofficial.
That said; TAN, you gonna need more participants to make it work. Since unofficial challenge offers no rewards or publicity, the only thing that will make ppl want to jump on it is if it's very exciting to be working on it for free.
Hell yeahs. Now this is what I have been looking to hear ! Tanks mates.Now I have a much better picture OF what I should do.
I will study other past challenges, get into contact with mods and ask them a lot of questions and of course will be looking for any suggestion in this thread to kick this thing up.
Because nobody cares what you want other people to do, you're not an admin or a moderator after all, you can't forced people to do something. So people are just going to keep answer back to people here, the discussing start here, no one want to answer someone who post here on another thread because he'll probably not going to read. You just created 2 topic featuring the same crappy discussions that goes nowhere GJ.
this to me is uneccesary harsh. and slightly wrong. as the creator of the thread, i dont think its wrong to ask people to respect the intended topic. and to create a separate thread for that discussion is a good solution, even if it didnt work here.
Replies
such as? i can't think of many games that feature scantily clad teenage girls that aren't from korean or japanese studios, and they have different cultural values to westerners.
(btw if anyone still has the url of that troll blog with penis and derp stuff they made last years i would love to show it to a coworker as a prank)
cortana, leage of legends girls, whats-her-boobs from overwatch, first 3 examples i thought of. couldnt bother to google more pics.
maybe you could argue that some of them arent technically teenage, but i think it still is valid, since what i wrote was concerning fanservice, which these three examples clearly are IMO.
"ZEUS CANNOT KEEP HIS DICK INSIDE HIS PANTS" Challenge
@Odow Hmmmmmm........ I would join you in on the Penis Tank Challenge if you manage to get it going with other people... Cuz I missed out on it when it was the thing
If you roll with the scenario that the centaur has more developed mammaries to cope with the greater milk production required to feed a centaur foal, that foal is going to need to be able to reach them. that means she's either going to need to be able to easily carry around a heavy, squirmy horse-baby meaning some significant upper body strength (in addition to what she'll need to stop her spine snapping like a twig with those great sacs of fat flailing about while she's galloping), or her milk production would make more sense to be placed on her horse belly.
While we're looking at bellies, where are her vital organs? Does she actually need a rib cage in her human part? If not, what kind of bone structure do those arms need? What purpose have did they evolve for in the first place? She's not likely to be climbing any trees.
et cetra. As a artistic exercise in character design and thinking way, way to hard about things, it might be quite interesting.
Lol....awesome :thumbup:
they clearly aren't teenagers. you made a sweeping generalisation that games and artists are sexualising teenagers with nothing to back it up
what? how do you know? and with such certainty? i hope you have the art lead from blizzard saying "no, the body for the overwatch girl, was SOLELY insipired by 18+ female body shapes and nothing else!" as a source, otherwise this discussion is pretty meaningless.
i also find it weird that you object against my generalization. if i say something else like "there sure is a lot of voilence in video games" are you going "No, thats false, please show games with guns versus games without ratio or else your wrong!"?
i mean, its obvouis that my statement from the beginning was a vague, sweeping generalization, that assumed there is somekind of general knowledge.
and i even try to make it less vague with giving you examples but you discard those, because you know for sure they dont look teenage? even to me or anyone else i guess?
if you want something else than to "win" this discussion, try to understand my viewpoint before arguing against it.
i've tried to see it from your point of view, but i don't see what your basis for it is.
my viewpoint is that games aren't full of teenage girls dressed like strippers
to make it clear, i take issue with you saying games and artists sexualise teenagers.
It's very rare for Western games to feature teenagers that are depicted the same way the Japanese do. Especially as it makes them targets of flagging by Publishers.
The only game I can think of in recent memory is Skullgirls. Although there's only one teenager and the studio as a whole is influenced by Japan so that's likely why they're brazen enough to do it.
mattQ86 posts a video where some girl talks about sexism in specific animes, which contains high amounts young girls in sexulised situatuions and outfits. she says something like, yes its kind of lame but people grow out.
i replied, pointing out that we still have the same contrived sexiness regarding female characters in videogames, and we havent showed any signs of growing up. my wording was "we, largely 30 year old males, still make scantly clad teenage girls for other 30 year old males to look at"
then marine replies to me, totally missing my point, and pointing out that i cant prove that all characters in western videogames are teenage... i guess?
this to me is stupid, beacuse firstly, you totally ignoring the point i was making, secoundly what is the defenition of "teenage"? is there an actaul age or something?
and thirldy while i cant prove it, since i dont have all the lore of all female characters ever, we defenatly are sexualising YOUNG WOMEN then. and if that is a huge deal somehow, that i should have written "young" instead of "teenage", i can only shake my head since that is somehow going deeper into missing-the-point land.
and i can easily stand by that, that we, as a industry is to the majority a bunch of 30 year old males sexualizing young women, when it comes to female characters. i can withdraw teenage if you like, i dont know why though, does it take away some percived pedophile stamp or something? that we are somehow slightly, itty bitty better than the japanese, since we dont explicitly state that the female characters we show almost naked are under 18? gee way to aim high
I regret everything
Young women, and young, healthy humans in general represent the ideallic standard of beauty. This isn't a recent thing nor does it have anything to do with the game industry or perverted 30 year old men or anything like that.
Young, attractive people are more frequently sexualized in any media than old, fat, and/or ugly people. There are some interesting studies related to how youthful appearances and various other physical characteristics relates to attraction (some of it down to basic survival/protection instincts) if you're keen to learn (sorry, can't remember specific sources at this time).
Notice I'm not a mod, I quit because of you motherfuckers
It seems kind of silly to be running this same no-win argument in two threads concurrently. Maybe we could get a merge or lock or something.
It's interesting that the game industry (in the US at least) employs more people of Asian descent than the general population which has led to push back against racist Asian stereotypes in games. I'd say more women in games would fix that but we fucked that up royally with the whole organized terror campaign against women developers, haven't we?
I sure hope not
Well, not just the obvious big boobs like that example; it's very common for anime/manga to have the fan service chapters/pages/scenes. There's always that chapter where the group goes to the beach/swimming pool and all wear bikini, run someone over and her skirt's lifted as she falls, the guy accidentally grab her boobs for balance or something. Or, you know, just shower scene.
But then again; sex scenes seem more acceptable in the West. Because it's normal to have sex I suppose ? Just. regular. and. normal. sex. Even though sometimes they don't add anything to the story or character development. Just. sex. scenes.
well yes
thirTEEN to nineTEEN
Can't wait.
You might have had better luck 10 years ago ;>
I'm curious what do you think of the fashion industry?
As that is arguing more toxic to women, then games, comics and movies. Yet feminist don't blame men for fashion industry problem. Nor do i hear feminist say we can fix fashion industries problem of using really young teenage women and models with BMIs less than 16 by having more women in the industry.
A good example is the above, you can say hey video game industry is so bad because look they use booth babes for every character, but so does everyone else. There is a reason they don't use DOVE beauty campaign women to sell bras. Like if the above is the best example of a normal size women, then there is something seriously wrong with it. I don't even want to post French runway models from a few years ago.
But, who do you blame for problem in fashion industry. As in video games it gets blamed on virgin awkward men who can't talk to women.
It had to be done...
Whoever first thought of making women walk down runway in bikini and look so proud of herself and everyone else drools over her is a truly a genius. A fking genius. I guess if they can be proud of themselves, then they don't feel the objectification of it... Who would have thought.
Also, if your looking for manga that treats this sort of subject more respectfully then the one listed in the op, I would recommend Centaur no Nayami.
At least gaming doesn't have the issue of tanning every body.
Holy crap Tyra banks just blends in there don't she?
You know much like artists I imagine fashion designers see enough gorgeous naked bodies the idea of "revealing" being sexual might be lost on them :P
I mean am I the only one here who's looking at this and casually judging their figures and outfits instead of their hotness?
I let you guys alone for 2 days and what da ?
Also we HAVE STARTED A THREAD FOR THIS right ?
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153393
I have nothing against any arguements here. Just let's keep this one for the challenge discussion. Honestly.
So to get back to topic.
I suppose we all agree on Chimera Challenge ?
Let's get specific then shall we ? About time period and rules and such.
- Can be any mashup or monster you can dream of.
- Can be any genre or any type.
- Can be 2D - 3D
So a few questions requiring your opiniosn.
- Should it be a firmly "character only" or can it also include environment art in any way ?
- it better be longer than 50-60 days because life is a busy thing, but then again. how long ?
- It is OK to keep it as a challenge I suppose. People would work on their preferred pieces as they wish without feeling pressure.
So waht do you mates say ?
In other words, no need to overcomplicate things man
Also it is completely perfect for me to make mistakes about these. Because like I said in the first post " I didn't do that before"
I am just talking to people here so that maybe they would like to get on a challenge like that.
Also can you explain about "talking to mods" and "being official" part ? Like I said I have no experience I don't know
By all means this is not a way to shut you down, but rather, a suggestion that might actually help you get more positive reactions to the idea.
Also, one thing to maybe consider is that even though "contests" or "Civil Wars" sound cool and motivational, we might be at a point where the idea of competing in order to "win" is not really relevant anymore (unless there are valuable prices involved, but that's another story). I personally feel like laid back art events where everyone participates just for the sake of creating cool stuff are much more interesting.
Also before I get started on tomorrows June challenge I rather participate in an event where everyone or most will be involved in.
This can fall perfectly into a summer event that can be till August 1st (or whatever) and Starts tomorrow.
Wanting to participate a.s.a.p. but if its not "official", i don't know how much traffic the event will have and I enjoy feeding off other peoples vibes (posts of progress) not that I need it, it is just encouraging in its own way.
Guess i'll get in on the June thing and if any events pop up i'll hope off that and jump of the PC Event.
I really enjoyed the progress of the Brawl "challenges", so this can be PC Brawl II or something.
In all honesty i hate jumping off my 1st forums to go to other sites to get challenges. =./
Also it's Sunday where I am and if many are also on Sunday (mods) i don't see why this can't start up tomorrow.
Or I am just too excited for the possibility of more PC challenges.:poly122:
That said; TAN, you gonna need more participants to make it work. Since unofficial challenge offers no rewards or publicity, the only thing that will make ppl want to jump on it is if it's very exciting to be working on it for free.
Hell yeahs. Now this is what I have been looking to hear ! Tanks mates.Now I have a much better picture OF what I should do.
I will study other past challenges, get into contact with mods and ask them a lot of questions and of course will be looking for any suggestion in this thread to kick this thing up.
Man now I really want get this going !